Should Contador Have Held Back for Schleck?



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Yonni

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roadhouse said:
no one cares any longer Contador, you are a disgrace to professional cycling, first with your abononation of the word 'team' last year and forever etching your backstabbing abilities with your poisoned and distasteful disregard for honest competition today.

Err, if that's a reference to last year Contador was Team leader and was abandoned by his team AND STILL WON!! Is that classy enough for ya mister? Lance is gone, get over it.
 

64Paramount

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jhuskey said:
Muy question is why isn't anyone bitching about these other riders that finished ahead of Schleck?


1 Thomas Voeckler (Fra) Bbox Bouygues Telecom 4:44:51
2 Alessandro Ballan (Ita) BMC Racing Team 0:01:20
3 Aitor Perez Arrieta (Spa) Footon-Servetto
4 Lloyd Mondory (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:02:50
5 Luke Roberts (Aus) Team Milram
6 Francesco Reda (Ita) Quick Step

8 Samuel Sánchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi
9 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank
10 Brian Vandborg (Den) Liquigas-Doimo
11 Johan Van Summeren (Bel) Garmin - Transitions

pennstater said:
Perhaps because the people bitching the most already had disdain for Contador before this incident. Now, because of what happened on stage 15, some of the people that already disliked him have an excuse to dislike him more and make their opinion public. Just my opinion.

+1 on both posts.
 

tonyzackery

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pennstater said:
Perhaps because the people bitching the most already had disdain for Contador before this incident. Now, because of what happened on stage 15, some of the people that already disliked him have an excuse to dislike him more and make their opinion public. Just my opinion.

+1
This pretty sums up my observation of the whole matter too. All the emotional investment in this drama is most amusing...There's definitely a love for Lance element at play too...IMO, those out there that harbor these ill feelings for Contador also are Lance supporters and the fact that he's (LA) on his way down and out makes current events all the more unfathomable...
 

mitosis

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LDB said:
In that case they should wait for anyone who has a mechanical issue not just the yellow jersey wearer and if they shouldn't wait for every single rider who has a mechanical issue then they shouldn't wait for any of them.

The convention is that if yellow has a problem outside his control (or a **** for that matter) the race waits.

Unfortunately what you think should happen doesn't matter.
 

jhuskey

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My problem, it seems, is that I love the sport, like some rider, hate none and worship none of them.
Can't afford therapy I guess I'll just drink.;)
 

EoinC

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jhuskey said:
My problem, it seems, is that I love the sport, like some rider, hate none and worship none of them.
Can't afford therapy I guess I'll just drink.;)
+1
 

cfblakeman

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tonyzackery said:
AS was NEVER going to gap AC; not on that stage or any other stage. He's just not strong enough.

When, not IF, AC beats AS by 31+ secs in the TT, all this hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth will be quickly forgotten; no asterisks, no footnotes, etc...3-time champion, the world will continue to turn, the sun will continue to rise in the east and settle in the west. IOW, life will go on...

Wrong. If Contador wins by 39 seconds (the gap that day), he will be seen as a weasel. If he wins by 20 minutes he will be seen as an even greater weasel for having taken advantage when he had no need to.

He himself has already recognized that what he did was wrong, but only in the celebrity/politician sense of wrong. His two "I'm sorry's" (UTube and Spanish media) really only amount to "I'm sorry I got caught." If he sits up in the start house for 40 seconds during the TT, then he can be a champion with an asterisk. If he doesn't, then he'll just be an asterisk.

Winners win however they can, with no honor. Champions beat the competition, not their chain.
 

roadhouse

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cfblakeman said:
Wrong. If Contador wins by 39 seconds (the gap that day), he will be seen as a weasel. If he wins by 20 minutes he will be seen as an even greater weasel for having taken advantage when he had no need to.

He himself has already recognized that what he did was wrong, but only in the celebrity/politician sense of wrong. His two "I'm sorry's" (UTube and Spanish media) really only amount to "I'm sorry I got caught." If he sits up in the start house for 40 seconds during the TT, then he can be a champion with an asterisk. If he doesn't, then he'll just be an asterisk.

Winners win however they can, with no honor. Champions beat the competition, not their chain.


awesome, friend. and if he hadn't of done anything wrong to begin with, in his or the public's eyes, he wouldn't have had to weasel an apology in the first place.
 

tonyzackery

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cfblakeman said:
Wrong. If Contador wins by 39 seconds (the gap that day), he will be seen as a weasel. If he wins by 20 minutes he will be seen as an even greater weasel for having taken advantage when he had no need to.

He himself has already recognized that what he did was wrong, but only in the celebrity/politician sense of wrong. His two "I'm sorry's" (UTube and Spanish media) really only amount to "I'm sorry I got caught." If he sits up in the start house for 40 seconds during the TT, then he can be a champion with an asterisk. If he doesn't, then he'll just be an asterisk.

Winners win however they can, with no honor. Champions beat the competition, not their chain.

LOL! Yeah, okay - you set the rules and define them too...no problem...it's your world and AC's just a squirrel allowed to run around in it...
 

Bastiani

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cfblakeman said:
Wrong. If Contador wins by 39 seconds (the gap that day), he will be seen as a weasel. If he wins by 20 minutes he will be seen as an even greater weasel for having taken advantage when he had no need to.

He himself has already recognized that what he did was wrong, but only in the celebrity/politician sense of wrong. His two "I'm sorry's" (UTube and Spanish media) really only amount to "I'm sorry I got caught." If he sits up in the start house for 40 seconds during the TT, then he can be a champion with an asterisk. If he doesn't, then he'll just be an asterisk.

Winners win however they can, with no honor. Champions beat the competition, not their chain.


You cannot be serious? why do you guys keep bringing up the 39 seconds... AS lost 15 seconds to a chain drop and getting back up to speed.... There was then a further 25 seconds taken away on riding alone.

But you are right everyone should return the favor to the yellow... so the entire peloton might as well wait in the TT event for 10-15 min. so Chav can get his time back lost in the third stage because of a flat tire.
 

cfblakeman

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tonyzackery said:
LOL! Yeah, okay - you set the rules and define them too...no problem...it's your world and AC's just a squirrel allowed to run around in it...

Interesting response. When there is no argument, people attack personally.

You are ignoring that fact that I didn't create ACs world for him, he did.

He himself has already recognized that what he did was wrong, but only in the celebrity/politician sense of wrong. I didn't ask him to apologize - he himself knows that what he did was wrong. You can disagree with him if you'd like - that's your option, but you can't tell me that what he did was right when he knows it was wrong and psuedo-apologized ("I'm sorry." but I'm keeping the 39 seconds).

If he sits up in the start house for 40 seconds during the TT, then he can be a champion. If he doesn't, then he'll just be an asterisk.

Winners win however they can, with no honor. Champions beat the competition, not their chain. Contador's own pseudo-apology recognizes this. Not my world or my squirrel - it's all on him.


 

hpearson

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64Paramounrt - the others are of no consequence in the GC. This is a two man race.

I thought it was chicken ****, but then again sitting behind Cancellara on the cobbles the whole way ain't much better though generally accepted.

Not buying Vino was waiting, he was marking and when Andy through the chain he stopped cause he was pegged on that climb.

Far as I am concerned it is even it is a mute point unless Andy ha something up his sleeve on Saturday. Shame he cant get his TT under control
 

jhuskey

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hpearson said:
64Paramounrt - the others are of no consequence in the GC. This is a two man race.

I thought it was chicken ****, but then again sitting behind Cancellara on the cobbles the whole way ain't much better though generally accepted.

Not buying Vino was waiting, he was marking and when Andy through the chain he stopped cause he was pegged on that climb.

Far as I am concerned it is even it is a mute point unless Andy ha something up his sleeve on Saturday. Shame he cant get his TT under control

Then let's remove all the other riders and see how the dynamics change.
I think you would be surprised.
 

swampy1970

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cfblakeman said:
So we have two arguments here - 1) should racers wait for the yellow jersey and under what circumstances, and 2) did Contador know the unwritten rule, believe it, accept it, and then thumb his nose at it.
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A man who is willing to win at all costs to his character is not a champion, and he will go down as an asterisk in Tour history for it.

- Schleck rode away from the yellow jersey on the cobbled stage 3 when Chavanel had "mechanical issues."

- Schleck has already benefited by having the peloton wait for him - stage 2 into Spa. Saxo couldn't win the stage so Fabian made like the Unions and brought everything to a grinding halt. Funny how that changed the day after when everyone was still falling off but Saxo was on the front...

- Andy Schleck didn't even stop to see what was going on with his own brother who was laying in the dirt with a broken collar bone, so why he expects someone from a different team to stop to see if his chain is all nice and happy is beyond me.

Using your logic Schleck was a complete as$ sucking scumbag who'd rob his Grandma of her last piece of candy, even before the mountain stages...

My personal take on the matter is that the problem was a self imposed mechanical, probably caused by those crappy monster pulleys on his rear mech further [email protected] by running too many links in his chain. Stuff like this deserves to be treated with the derision it deserves - ie Contador was right to drop him like a rock off the side of a cliff.

... and what is with this believe that there's a mystical unwritten rule that's prevailed through the ages? Freaking newbies come to the sport and see Armstrong and Ulrich show some personal respect for each other and that translates into something bigger.

Some key moments through the ages:

Did Zoetemelk wait for Merckx, who was in yellow, when a fan ran out and punched him in the kidneys whilst climbing the Puy de Dome? No... not in the slightest. Merckx would lose the jersey.

Did Merckx wait to see what happened to Ocana when Merckx misjudged a corner and lead them all offroad, causing Ocana to crash (Ocana was in yellow by something like six minutes having beaten Merckx by almost 10 minutes on a preceding stage). Too add insult to injury, another rider crashed into Ocana just a Merckx was running back to the road to set off again into the distance. Ocana would quit. Merckx would refuse to wear the yellow jersey the day after but this didn't stop him from leaving Ocana in the dirt and skampering off across the mud like Bambi to jump back on his bike to head for the overall lead....

Did anyone wait for Hinault as his gears were skipping again and again as he climbed up the slopes of Superbagneres when LeMond was exacting his revenge for losing time the day before? No... Hinault took it like a man and didn't ***** about it at the finish. LeMond would later attack Hinault (who was still in yellow) in the alps when descending the Izoard whilst the frenchman was having his saddle adjusted.

You were saying about "honor" and the Tour de France... It's a race. The biggest race there is. It's not some freaking liberal "200 steps on the podium and give little Johnny who finishes next to last a medal" race. It's a race that'll make or break you. That Schleck wanted to leave his plots to the last seconds of the days stage which gave him no second chance, it his fault. Things can, and often do, go wrong when the pressure is on and the hammer is being dropped. It's for this same reason that Schleck will fail to crack Contador on the Tourmalet.
 

jhuskey

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That would have most likely been Eddies 6th win in 1975. Hate is nothing new.
 

GT Fanatic

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roadhouse said:
no sense whatsoever, Gt, and nonsense as well.

Uh, yeah, whatever you say. You're the pro on the forum. You've participated in so many Tour de Frances, you're the authority. :rolleyes:
 

tonyzackery

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cfblakeman said:
Interesting response. When there is no argument, people attack personally.

You're absolutely right - there is no argument. AS can not beat AC. And if you believe my comment was a personal attack, I must then say that your skin is more than likely not thick enough for this forum and you'll inevitably get your feelings hurt.;)

Interesting your definition/opinion for winner and champion...you're entitled - no problem...
 

Bastiani

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Contador just wants a goat too.
 

swampy1970

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This thread highlights how boring the Tour has become.

If all we really have to talk about, after a couple of weeks and stages in the Alps and Pyrenees, is whether Contador should have waited because of Andy's gears threw a 2 second fit, then it really is a pis$ poor affair.
 

vspa

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now Contador is excusing himself on the media... why not slipping back on purpose then at the end of yesterday's stage and returning back those 39 seconds. That would be fair to me.
 
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