Should I be putting down my best 2x20's at this time of year?

[postal_bag]

Remember the "are we the smart ones - doing L4 work in January" thread? I just finished a 2x20' session on the trainer - 1st 20' @ 106% FT, 2nd 20' @ 105% FT, followed up with 30' @ 94% FT.

I have been riding 4 times/week, including 2 rides of 90' at 92-95% FT, and 1 or 2 rides of 2+ hrs @ 85-87% FT. TSS in the range of 100 - 125 for each ride.

At this point I am not really trying to increase my power each week. I just think of this as my "base" training.

Race season goes from mid-April to mid-September. I will have up to 15 hours/week to train once the weather gets nice in the spring, but for now I have 6-8 hrs.

Will I "burn-out" if I try to keep this up all winter? Should I reserve some time for L5-L7, also?

 

[SolarEnergy]

Remember the "are we the smart ones - doing L4 work in January" thread? I just finished a 2x20' session on the trainer - 1st 20' @ 106% FT, 2nd 20' @ 105% FT, followed up with 30' @ 94% FT.

I have been riding 4 times/week, including 2 rides of 90' at 92-95% FT, and 1 or 2 rides of 2+ hrs @ 85-87% FT. TSS in the range of 100 - 125 for each ride.

At this point I am not really trying to increase my power each week. I just think of this as my "base" training.

Race season goes from mid-April to mid-September. I will have up to 15 hours/week to train once the weather gets nice in the spring, but for now I have 6-8 hrs.

Will I "burn-out" if I try to keep this up all winter? Should I reserve some time for L5-L7, also?

How are you doing CTL wise at this time of year? What's the tendency?

 

[BlueJersey]

Hahahaha....I think I started it. Personally, I think it is good at least to ride at your threshold for 1 hour once a week. I do that by doing climbing repeats at FT. I would probably spend most of the time riding at high tempo for 2 hours +.

Remember the "are we the smart ones - doing L4 work in January" thread? I just finished a 2x20' session on the trainer - 1st 20' @ 106% FT, 2nd 20' @ 105% FT, followed up with 30' @ 94% FT.

I have been riding 4 times/week, including 2 rides of 90' at 92-95% FT, and 1 or 2 rides of 2+ hrs @ 85-87% FT. TSS in the range of 100 - 125 for each ride.

At this point I am not really trying to increase my power each week. I just think of this as my "base" training.

Race season goes from mid-April to mid-September. I will have up to 15 hours/week to train once the weather gets nice in the spring, but for now I have 6-8 hrs.

Will I "burn-out" if I try to keep this up all winter? Should I reserve some time for L5-L7, also?

 

[frenchyge]

Remember the "are we the smart ones - doing L4 work in January" thread? I just finished a 2x20' session on the trainer - 1st 20' @ 106% FT, 2nd 20' @ 105% FT, followed up with 30' @ 94% FT.

</Yawn/> Is it January already??

My IF's started creeping up into the mid-to-upper-90's this week, too -- I just couldn't lay off. Looks like someone's ready for another FT test.

 

[NomadVW]

I was going to post something similar to this tonight, but more of a question of "this year I'm skipping base training." I know this gets debated year after year in forums on every site that cycling is discussed. Honestly though, I'm just not a believer that you can't be building year round.

Look at all the pro's this year that are going from road, to cross, to track and back. Zabel's track work this year comes to mind, and he's not too shabby a racer.

I'm no pro, so granted - what works for Zabel is no guarantee to work for me. But I'm looking to build this year, all year round. I'll put effort every week in zone 4+, 3 days a week at least this winter. I'm just not sure I believe in the need for so much base training. Maybe next year this time I'll be on my face with a **** year behind me, but that's the advantage of not depending on the bike for a paycheck! Trial and error is free

 

[rmur17]

Remember the "are we the smart ones - doing L4 work in January" thread? I just finished a 2x20' session on the trainer - 1st 20' @ 106% FT, 2nd 20' @ 105% FT, followed up with 30' @ 94% FT.

I have been riding 4 times/week, including 2 rides of 90' at 92-95% FT, and 1 or 2 rides of 2+ hrs @ 85-87% FT. TSS in the range of 100 - 125 for each ride.

If you're riding 4 times/wk .. pretty much SST by the look of it .. where did the 2x20 workout come from. Is it part of your weekly routine or a test 'cause you were feeling good?

rmur

 

[postal_bag]

How are you doing CTL wise at this time of year? What's the tendency?

Sorry, I don't know what CTL is, yet. I am calculating TSS "manually" because I don't have any software.

 

[postal_bag]

If you're riding 4 times/wk .. pretty much SST by the look of it .. where did the 2x20 workout come from. Is it part of your weekly routine or a test 'cause you were feeling good?

rmur

Yes, I decided to throw it in this week to vary the routine. I seem to do 2x20 maybe once every three weeks.

 

[rmur17]

Yes, I decided to throw it in this week to vary the routine. I seem to do 2x20 maybe once every three weeks.

well I'd say your training is working well - doesn't sound too high up the intensity scale to me - pretty much around where I predominantly trained the past two off-seasons.

It's very nice how FT 'magically' bumps up without a lot of focused 'hard' L4 work.

rmur

 

[vio765]

this year im going to try and have a 3week peak at the end of the season. im also trying to be an all-rounder. i dont want to dominate any one style of racing (RR, crit, TT, etc) but to do decent in everything. as the years progress, i will find my genetic strength and then exploit it. next season (2008) i might try at having a modest peak at the beginning of the season, then a short but powerful peak at the end of the season. that is still far away.

to answer your question, it depends on your goals. i know a guy that peaks at the beginning of the season because he knows most other riders are not even close to peaking. so obviously he takes high placings for the first month or so. then after that he just sits in the packs and ride a lot of charity rides.

it sounds like you want to be a threat all season long. i also think your tactic is clever, but if you dont have the mental stamina to take on the continuous L4+ training for several weeks, you will eventually burn out. however, if all you do is crits, then you will be a thorn in many sides. as for TTs and RRs you will need a lot of aerobic training just to stay on. true, at the beginning of a RR you will come out of corners and attack well, but without a significant aerobic base, you will tire and eventually suffer.
too many people think aerobic base-building is "sitting in" and a waste of time. the reason why i am a strong supporter of a lot of base training is because it is a.) the foundation of all other energy systems, and b.) the aerobic energy system take much longer to train. im not advocating to spend 80% of your entire season on it. however, a cat 1,2 racer would need less base training than a novice. and like i said earlier, it depends on your goals. happy riding.

 

[SolarEnergy]

Sorry, I don't know what CTL is, yet. I am calculating TSS "manually" because I don't have any software.

Are you saying that you're using a powermeter without cyclingpeaks Anyway.

CTL can be seen as a complex TSS Rolling Average. If you maintain your TSS, you can maintain the average TSS/d (CTL). And while doing that, you can maintain ATL and TBS as well. You do that quite easily by using a nice excel file writen by a member of this forum. Unfortunately, I don't remember the post, or the thread. But I remember that Frenchyge is the one that first introduced me to this file.

Your expectations, in regards to maintaining a core-fitness level (FTP, VO2Max and the like), must be in line with the season's variation in CTL (TSS daily average value). I think that it is smart to reajust your expectations based (among other things) on these variations.

 

[postal_bag]

Are you saying that you're using a powermeter without cyclingpeaks Anyway.

CTL can be seen as a complex TSS Rolling Average. If you maintain your TSS, you can maintain the average TSS/d (CTL). And while doing that, you can maintain ATL and TBS as well. You do that quite easily by using a nice excel file writen by a member of this forum. Unfortunately, I don't remember the post, or the thread. But I remember that Frenchyge is the one that first introduced me to this file.

Your expectations, in regards to maintaining a core-fitness level (FTP, VO2Max and the like), must be in line with the season's variation in CTL (TSS daily average value). I think that it is smart to reajust your expectations based (among other things) on these variations.

OK, thanks. I think you mean TSS/day,so CTL would be ....training load? I'lldo a search to try and learn more, like what is ATL and TBS.

 

[acoggan]

OK, thanks. I think you mean TSS/day,so CTL would be ....training load? I'lldo a search to try and learn more, like what is ATL and TBS.

CTL = chronic training load (42 d exponentially-weighted moving average of daily TSS values)

ATL = acute training load (7 d exponentially weighted moving average of daily TSS values)

TSB = training stress balance = CTL - ATL

More info here:

http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/performancemanagerscience.asp

 

[SolarEnergy]

You do that quite easily by using a nice excel file writen by a member of this forum. Unfortunately, I don't remember the post, or the thread.

Postal,

You already know that acoggan is the man who put this important work together and conducted most of the testing. You also know that he was generous enough to share with us the secrets behind his discoveries.

He already provided you with a link toward the final result of performance manager system.

Here's is a backstage discussion that occured pretty much in the same time PMC was made public.

1th, the post in which you'll find the excel sheet I was refering too earlier... http://www.cyclingforums.com/showpost.php?p=2949979&postcount=161

Let's not forget the contribution of an other maths "wiz", alemartinez...
http://www.cyclingforums.com/showpost.php?p=2938757&postcount=120

And again acoggan's endless generosity in helping the members to figure out the concept by themselve before the final version gets released...
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t-357004-15-1.html

 

[rmur17]

Postal,

You already know that acoggan is the man who put this important work together and conducted most of the testing. You also know that he was generous enough to share with us the secrets behind his discoveries.

He already provided you with a link toward the final result of performance manager system.

Here's is a backstage discussion that occured pretty much in the same time PMC was made public.

1th, the post in which you'll find the excel sheet I was refering too earlier... http://www.cyclingforums.com/showpost.php?p=2949979&postcount=161

Let's not forget the contribution of an other maths "wiz", alemartinez...
http://www.cyclingforums.com/showpost.php?p=2938757&postcount=120

And again acoggan's endless generosity in helping the members to figure out the concept by themselve before the final version gets released...
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t-357004-15-1.html

well the software is only some $75 or so! Support the cause

rmur

 

[Eldrack]

I don't know how cross applicable this is but when I was a rower 95% of our hard training was made up of sessions less than 90 minutes, i.e L4 or higher. Obviously the target of rowing is different (6 minute max power), but it shows that you can do a lot of high intensity training (I was doing 7 sessions a week ~ 10 hours) during the off season without any problems.

 

[postal_bag]

well the software is only some $75 or so! Support the cause

rmur

That sounds like the best plan, seeing as I am mathematically challenged. Unfortunately, I am also technologically challenged and I don't have much luck with my PC.

 

[SolarEnergy]

well the software is only some $75 or so! Support the cause

rmur

Yeah. Though it's fair to say that by paying this money, the OP is supporting is own cause at the first place. Win/Win