Should I go for a double or triple?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Trg, Aug 4, 2003.

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  1. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 21:04:25 GMT, Paul Southworth <cnhyf- [email protected]> wrote:
    >> Sorry, the 27 low gear isn't as good as a granny gear.
    >
    > Of course you can get a lot lower with a 74mm chainring, but there's not a huge difference between
    > a 30x23 and a 39x27.

    There's more to it than just the available top and bottom combinations. It's nice, when you suddenly
    realise that your cadence is down to 1 rpm, to just drop to the granny gear and get going again.

    > Changing only the cassette is by far the cheapest fix, and it can be quickly and easily removed
    > when not needed.

    Absolutely, and this is why I've changed only my cassette; I couldn't see spending hundreds of
    dollars to change the whole damn drivetrain when I bought this bike for it's very light weight
    (among other things, of course).

    > --Paul
    --
    Rick Onanian
     


  2. Marathon

    Marathon Guest

    Meant to say Campy 39-53 Rear-13-29

    have to do the math but just feels great!

    Almost feels close like having the 11-23

    > I can deal with my 39 x 27, but I'd like a granny gear. I bet a 39 x 29 is incrementally
    > better...but I'd still rather have the triple. Anyway, then you could have a much touted close
    > ratio cassette, like an 11-23 or some such, and still have the range.
    >
    > Choices:
    >
    > -- Double, close-ratio. Not a lot of range. Very elite. You'll need to be Lance Legstrong to
    > ride, at least around here.
    >
    > -- Double, wide-ratio. Medium range. Marginally less elitism value. Usable, forces you to get
    > strong.
    >
    > -- Triple, close-ratio. Large range. Not elite but doesn't make you look lame. Comfortable, fun,
    > and you can train like elitists if you want just by ignoring granny ring.
    >
    > -- Triple, wide-ratio. Very wide range. Useful on a road bike if you pull a trailer, carry heavy
    > panniers, are very overweight, or weak. May cause Fabrizio to strangle you with his jersey.
    > --
    > Rick Onanian
     
  3. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 21:20:19 GMT, Marathon <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Meant to say Campy 39-53 Rear-13-29
    >
    > have to do the math but just feels great!
    >
    > Almost feels close like having the 11-23

    I know that for my abilities, the close ratios of the 11-23 (or the 12-23) don't get me
    anywhere faster.

    Gee, this is sounding like one side of the "12-27" thread... ;)

    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  4. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 16:51:55 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Sorry, the 27 low gear isn't as good as a granny gear.
    >
    >It does force me to put some oomph into it, though, so maybe it's good for my health.
    >
    >> --Paul

    You can put a long cage XT, LX mtb derailleur on and use a 11.32 cassette. I actually prefer a 12/27
    that I modify to 13/32. The
    39/32 is same as 30/24. Should you want a more elegant solution, you can get a 48/34 x 110 bolt
    pattern double and use a 12/27 cassette. The 34 is about the same as a 30x32 and you won't need
    special long cage derailleurs. It is also neat to use with a 12/23 or 11/21 cassette. I've got a
    setup I can sell you for less than $100.
     
  5. You didn't mention whether your riding is competitive or recreational (Racing or Touring).

    If it's competitive, I would go with the double. You need to build up strength, and while triples
    may let you spin in anything but straight up, they tent to make it too easy. Start with a smaller
    small ring, and increase the size as you get stronger.

    If your forte' is recreational, then go triple, for the same reason. Ease of pedalling and
    maintaining spin.

    May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

    Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
  6. Top Sirloin

    Top Sirloin Guest

    On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:15:44 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Choices:
    >
    > -- Double, close-ratio. Not a lot of range. Very elite. You'll need to be Lance Legstrong to ride,
    > at least around here.
    >
    > -- Double, wide-ratio. Medium range. Marginally less elitism value. Usable, forces you to
    > get strong.

    Folks, this is all it really boils down to: if you have a double you're rich white yuppie scum.

    Scott Johnson "There is nothing, I think, more unfortunate than to have soft, chubby, fat-looking
    children who go to watch their school play basketball every Saturday and regard that as their
    week's exercise."
    - John F. Kennedy, 1962
     
  7. "trg" <[email protected]> writes:

    >Hi RBTers,

    >I'm going to buy a road bike and am wondering whether to get the Ultegra Double or Triple.

    Last week i used my ultegra triple on a Trek 2300 to pull my babies up a 12% grade in the baby
    carrier with my two broken feet (one a stress fracture, one a broken toe). You might be surprised at
    the versatility and new applications that just materialize with a really low granny gear. Also, the
    resale value to baby boomers cannot be ignored... :) :)

    - Don Gillies San Diego, CA
     
  8. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 19:58:04 -0500, Top Sirloin <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Folks, this is all it really boils down to: if you have a double you're rich white yuppie scum.

    ...or, if you're like me, you're a regretful white cheapo who wishes he bought the triple.

    In case it wasn't obvious, I wasn't advocating elitism.

    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  9. Maurizio

    Maurizio Guest

    > Should I get the triple, even though I'll hardly use it? What parts do I have to change to go from
    > a triple to a double, or vice versa (crank, BB, shifter, front derailler, ?); Is there a simple
    > solution to add a granny gear to an Ultegra double?

    Go for a 110 mm bcd crankset (Ritchey, TA, Stronglight, FSA) and a 12-27 cogset. Choose 50/36 or
    48/34 setup depending on your climbing style or the needs to reach high speeds in sprints or
    downhills.

    ciao Maurizio, Bologna, Italy
     
  10. Maurizio

    Maurizio Guest

    > >high country (for me that's the Alps or Pyrenees), I would't be able to manage with 39x23
    > >(without doping, of course ;-).
    >
    > Instead of doping, try training.

    Mr Johnson could give you some smart advice on how to get in a good shape. He's among the strongest
    cyclists in the world, climbing almost everything with his 39-23 setup. He hates Tyler Hamilton,
    with his 52-36 crankset which makes no sense, unless you have a broken shoulder. More: he's much
    stronger than Tyler. So, let's listen to what he's going to tell you...

    Ciao Maurizio, Bologna, Italy
     
  11. trg wrote:
    > Is shifting with triple setup on a double crankset smooth?

    Why wouldn't it be? I haven't used the latest ultegra but I would expect it to be fine.

    > Is the rear derailer of a triple different than that of a double (longer?)

    Yes. You need a longer cage on a rear deraileur for a triple setup because you have a bigger range
    of gears (overall capacity). The longer cage can take up more chain slack.

    > What difference will that make when I put on my double crank? When going from 3 to 2, other than
    > the crank (and chain rings), is there anything else that needs to be changed?

    You need to adjust the front deraileur appropriately for the different crank.

    --Bill Davidson
    --
    Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.

    I'm a 17 year veteran of usenet -- you'd think I'd be over it by now
     
  12. If you use the 110BCD idea, do you have the drop the 53 front to a 50 or could you use a 53,34 and
    normal real cassette? Lanny "Bill Davidson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > trg wrote:
    > > I'm going to buy a road bike and am wondering whether to get the Ultegra Double or Triple. For
    > > any ride I'm likely to do in my area (>95% of the
    time
    > > spent on the bike), the double will be ok. But should I want to head to
    the
    > > high country (for me that's the Alps or Pyrenees), I would't be able to manage with 39x23
    > > (without doping, of course ;-).
    > >
    > > Should I get the triple, even though I'll hardly use it? What parts do I have to change to go
    > > from a triple to a double, or vice versa (crank,
    BB,
    > > shifter, front derailler, ?); Is there a simple solution to add a granny gear to an Ultegra
    > > double?
    >
    > If you're going with a double but want to be able to change, make sure you get the front and rear
    > deraileurs, shifters and bottom bracket for a
    triple.
    > They will work with the double crank so all you have to change is the
    crank
    > when you want to change (and adjust the front deraileur). In other words, if you're dead set on
    > ultegra, get a triple setup and buy a double crank
    to
    > go with it.
    >
    > Another way to go is to own a 12x27 cassette, though that won't get you as low as a triple.
    >
    > Yet another way to go is to get a 110 BCD double (FSA makes them. I think a couple of others). It
    > will let you go down to 34 in the front with a simple chainring replacement. This could also be
    > combined with the 12x27 to get a fairly low gear of 34-27; slightly lower than a 30-23. The rest
    > of the time you can go with a 39 or whatever on the small ring just as before. 110's are cool.
    > They should really be more common. Tyler
    Hamilton
    > used one in the mountain stages of the tour this year so maybe they'll get a bit more popularity.
    >
    > --Bill Davidson
    > --
    > Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.
    >
    > I'm a 17 year veteran of usenet -- you'd think I'd be over it by now
     
  13. Lanny R. Levenson <[email protected]> wrote:
    >If you use the 110BCD idea, do you have the drop the 53 front to a 50 or could you use a 53,34 and
    >normal real cassette?

    I plan to use a 52/34 as soon as the bits come, and I know Sheldon has ridden a similar arrangement.
    I expect front shifts will be pretty brutal, and I wouldn't care to try it with a non-friction front
    shifter, but I've every reason to believe it'll work.
    --
    David Damerell <[email protected]> flcl?
     
  14. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "trg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Hi RBTers,
    >
    > I'm going to buy a road bike and am wondering whether to get the Ultegra Double or Triple. For any
    > ride I'm likely to do in my area (>95% of the time spent on the bike), the double will be ok. But
    > should I want to head to the high country (for me that's the Alps or Pyrenees), I would't be able
    > to manage with 39x23 (without doping, of course ;-).
    >
    > Should I get the triple, even though I'll hardly use it? What parts do I have to change to go from
    > a triple to a double, or vice versa (crank, BB, shifter, front derailler, ?); Is there a simple
    > solution to add a granny gear to an Ultegra double?

    I have a triple. I never use the granny for any of my local riding. The only time I have used it is
    in hilly ultra-rides (125-250 mi), where it was the only way I could keep going when leg cramps
    struck (on several occasions). I think it's "better to have & not need, than need & not have". When
    you need a triple, you really need it, otherwise, you don't even know it's there.
     
  15. Top Sirloin

    Top Sirloin Guest

    On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 21:20:44 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 19:58:04 -0500, Top Sirloin <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Folks, this is all it really boils down to: if you have a double you're rich white yuppie scum.
    >
    >...or, if you're like me, you're a regretful white cheapo who wishes he bought the triple.

    On most brands you have to spend more $$ to even get a store-bought bike with a double on it. :)

    >In case it wasn't obvious, I wasn't advocating elitism.

    I am! Doubles or die!

    --
    Scott Johnson "Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are why they only open the
    top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen
     
  16. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 15:00:16 -0400, Top Sirloin <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> ...or, if you're like me, you're a regretful white cheapo who wishes he bought the triple.
    >
    > On most brands you have to spend more $$ to even get a store-bought bike with a double on it. :)

    Naw, I bought my 2001 Giant TCR2 at the end of summer 2002. It was pretty well discounted, but I
    probably would have been better off spending a few more bucks on a bike with a triple and a
    better fit.

    I recall being very impressed with a Felt F65, at least, I think it was the F65. It was a toss-up,
    and I decided to buy at the more local store; the Felt was an hour's drive away. It turned out that
    I haven't needed to go back for anything, as I've taken up doing my own service.

    Go figure. I thought the Felt was prettier too. Live and learn.

    >> In case it wasn't obvious, I wasn't advocating elitism.
    > I am! Doubles or die!

    You elitists aren't half as cool as us non-elitists! Non-elitists are the best, and very rare! <G>

    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  17. > >
    > > I'm going to buy a road bike and am wondering whether to get the Ultegra Double or Triple. For
    > > any ride I'm likely to do in my area (>95% of the time spent on the bike), the double will be
    > > ok. But should I want to head to the high country (for me that's the Alps or Pyrenees), I
    > > would't be able to manage with 39x23 (without doping, of course ;-).
    > >
    > > Should I get the triple, even though I'll hardly use it? What parts do I have to change to go
    > > from a triple to a double, or vice versa (crank, BB, shifter, front derailler, ?); Is there a
    > > simple solution to add a granny gear to an Ultegra double?
    >
    > I have a triple. I never use the granny for any of my local riding. The only time I have used it
    > is in hilly ultra-rides (125-250 mi), where it was the only way I could keep going when leg cramps
    > struck (on several occasions). I think it's "better to have & not need, than need & not have".
    > When you need a triple, you really need it, otherwise, you don't even know it's there.

    Certainly the triple. I got one and love it, I couldn't imagine not having the triple. Around here
    8% is pretty usual, 13% not too uncommon, and unbelieveably they just built a road with 20% only a
    mile from my house. When I'm doing 200KM rides, or ones with known double digit grades, I switch out
    my standard 12-25 for a 12-27, which rocks with the 52/42/30 Ultegra triple.

    A couple of my friends recently bought doubles and are now trying to figure out what rides they
    might be able to do...

    Roland.
     
  18. [email protected] (Donald Gillies) writes:

    >"trg" <[email protected]> writes:

    >>Hi RBTers,

    >>I'm going to buy a road bike and am wondering whether to get the Ultegra Double or Triple.

    when i was 18 years old i got a used schwinn paramount p-15 bike in central illinois - the flat
    midwest. not wanting to appear wimpy, i removed the inner chainring and converted the rear shimano
    crane to a nuovo record derailleur. This made the bike look racey with a double.

    when i was 38 years old i got a new trek 2300 bike. not wanting to have knee problems later in life,
    i instructed the shop to convert the double to a triple so that i could ride up the hills in san
    diego without requiring early knee surgery.

    what a difference a generation makes !!!

    With an ultegra triple you can remove the inner chainring and nobody will ever know you had a
    triple. with the paramount you could always see the holes in the campy spider for the triple. so
    with the ultegra crank you can be a "stealth triplizer". In my mind the only thing to hold you back
    is a serious cash crunch. With an Ultegra triple you can save face when you're 18, and save your
    knees when you're 38 !!!

    So the formula is, divide your age by 2 and then buy at least as many gears as that number
    indicates !!

    Why do you think Sheldon has a 63-speed ???

    - Don "mathematician" Gillies San Diego, CA
     
  19. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On 5 Aug 2003 23:47:02 -0700, Donald Gillies <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Why do you think Sheldon has a 63-speed ???

    For the same reason I'd like to make a Stumpf-Rohloff-Campy equipped 840-speed bike...

    Stumpf: 2 Rohloff: 14 Campy: 3x10

    2x14x3x10 = 840. With off-the-shelf parts, probably slightly modified to fit eachother.

    Why? Because...umm...why not?

    Why not is because I don't have the money.

    > - Don "mathematician" Gillies San Diego, CA
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  20. Bruni

    Bruni Guest

    Being a lousy climber, I use 48-34 rings (FSA compact road) with 11-34 sram in the hills, and 11-23
    on flats. 118 inch top; 27 inch low. The lowest gear Ultegra nets is 30 inch. Tom

    --
    Bruni Bicycles "Where art meets science" brunibicycles.com
    410.426.3420 Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:eek:[email protected]...
    > On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 19:58:04 -0500, Top Sirloin <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Folks, this is all it really boils down to: if you have a double you're rich white yuppie scum.
    >
    > ...or, if you're like me, you're a regretful white cheapo who wishes he bought the triple.
    >
    > In case it wasn't obvious, I wasn't advocating elitism.
    >
    > --
    > Rick Onanian
     
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