should i or shouldn't i...



R

Ravi

Guest
Hi,
ok, i was heading to an exit door. At the same time a cyclist
pushing his bike also was approaching for the same door, i walked a
little bit faster and reached the door quickly and held the door open
for the cyclist. Instead, the cyclist insisted on i go thru the door
first, after two times going back and forth, i had to go thru the door
and he exited after me. He commutes daily by bike, and he knows that i
too sometimes commute by bike. We exchange hellos sometimes. Still
puzzling thing was why he insisted on *not* letting me hold the door
open for him. Upon reflection, i came up with two ways to look at things is:

1. this person is holding the door out of courtesy
2. Or, this person thinks the cyclist needs assistance..

when someone does something like that for me - i think it is #1 and
thank them and accept it. But after this incident, i think #2 is also a
possibility.

I am sure so many of you have been in such situations, how do you react?

may be, i should read some book on social effects of cycling ;)

+ravi
 
R

Rich Clark

Guest
"Ravi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Hi,
> ok, i was heading to an exit door. At the same time a cyclist pushing
> his bike also was approaching for the same door, i walked a little bit
> faster and reached the door quickly and held the door open for the
> cyclist. Instead, the cyclist insisted on i go thru the door first, after
> two times going back and forth, i had to go thru the door and he exited
> after me. He commutes daily by bike, and he knows that i too sometimes
> commute by bike. We exchange hellos sometimes. Still puzzling thing was
> why he insisted on *not* letting me hold the door open for him. Upon
> reflection, i came up with two ways to look at things is:
>
> 1. this person is holding the door out of courtesy
> 2. Or, this person thinks the cyclist needs assistance..
>
> when someone does something like that for me - i think it is #1 and thank
> them and accept it. But after this incident, i think #2 is also a
> possibility.
>
> I am sure so many of you have been in such situations, how do you react?
>
> may be, i should read some book on social effects of cycling ;)


I run into this on a frequent basis. I don't want people holding doors for
me. They don't know where to stand, they get in the way, I can't get through
the door with my bike without bumping them or bumping myself or my bike in
an effort not to bump them. It's awkward.

On the other hand, I know how to go through doors with my bike. I know how
to do it effortlessly and without help.

So when someone tries to hold a door for me I just say "thanks, but it'll be
easier if you just go ahead."

RichC
 
C

Collin O'Neill

Guest
Ravi wrote:
> Hi,
> ok, i was heading to an exit door. At the same time a cyclist pushing
> his bike also was approaching for the same door, i walked a little bit
> faster and reached the door quickly and held the door open for the
> cyclist. Instead, the cyclist insisted on i go thru the door first,
> after two times going back and forth, i had to go thru the door and he
> exited after me. He commutes daily by bike, and he knows that i too
> sometimes commute by bike. We exchange hellos sometimes. Still puzzling
> thing was why he insisted on *not* letting me hold the door open for
> him. Upon reflection, i came up with two ways to look at things is:
>
> 1. this person is holding the door out of courtesy
> 2. Or, this person thinks the cyclist needs assistance..
>
> when someone does something like that for me - i think it is #1 and
> thank them and accept it. But after this incident, i think #2 is also a
> possibility.
>
> I am sure so many of you have been in such situations, how do you react?
>
> may be, i should read some book on social effects of cycling ;)
>
> +ravi

People insist on holding the door for you because
1. They perceive it's unwieldy and you have to struggle with it. The
truth is it's easy and those of us who carry our bikes through doors
every day do it easily.
2. They are courteous - people hold the door open for each other when
they don't have bikes, eh?
3. They don't understand that two people plus one bike do NOT fit in a
doorway, and the effort of going around someone standing IN a doorway is
more difficult than holding the door open for ones self.

It's hard to explain item no. 3 to non-cyclists. I've given up. Now I
pretend like I'm doing something else until they go away.

Collin "Oh, I'm just putzing with my little light here for a while,
thanks anyway." O'Neill
 
A

andy gee

Guest
"Rich Clark" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> "Ravi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> Hi,
>> ok, i was heading to an exit door. At the same time a cyclist
>> pushing
>> his bike also was approaching for the same door, i walked a little
>> bit faster and reached the door quickly and held the door open for
>> the cyclist. Instead, the cyclist insisted on i go thru the door
>> first, after two times going back and forth, i had to go thru the
>> door and he exited after me. He commutes daily by bike, and he knows
>> that i too sometimes commute by bike. We exchange hellos sometimes.
>> Still puzzling thing was why he insisted on *not* letting me hold the
>> door open for him. Upon reflection, i came up with two ways to look
>> at things is:
>>
>> 1. this person is holding the door out of courtesy
>> 2. Or, this person thinks the cyclist needs assistance..
>>
>> when someone does something like that for me - i think it is #1 and
>> thank them and accept it. But after this incident, i think #2 is also
>> a possibility.
>>
>> I am sure so many of you have been in such situations, how do you
>> react?
>>
>> may be, i should read some book on social effects of cycling ;)

>
> I run into this on a frequent basis. I don't want people holding doors
> for me. They don't know where to stand, they get in the way, I can't
> get through the door with my bike without bumping them or bumping
> myself or my bike in an effort not to bump them. It's awkward.
>
> On the other hand, I know how to go through doors with my bike. I know
> how to do it effortlessly and without help.
>
> So when someone tries to hold a door for me I just say "thanks, but
> it'll be easier if you just go ahead."
>
> RichC
>
>
>


Here in New York, apartment buildings have _double_ doors. It's tough
to get to the inner door before the outer door thwacks the rear wheel.
Tough, but doable. So I can do it myself, but I appreciate anyone who
holds the door. Especially when I'm coming in with the 'bent.

--ag
 
V

Veloise

Guest
Ravi wrote:
> ok, i was heading to an exit door. At the same time a cyclist
> pushing his bike also was approaching for the same door, i walked a
> little bit faster and reached the door quickly and held the door open
> for the cyclist. Instead, the cyclist insisted on i go thru the door
> first, ...


Where in Little Rock was this?

--Karen D.
 
R

Rich

Guest
Veloise wrote:
> Ravi wrote:
>
>> ok, i was heading to an exit door. At the same time a cyclist
>>pushing his bike also was approaching for the same door, i walked a
>>little bit faster and reached the door quickly and held the door open
>>for the cyclist. Instead, the cyclist insisted on i go thru the door
>>first, ...

>
> Where in Little Rock was this?


lol
 
R

Ravi

Guest
Rich Clark wrote:
> I run into this on a frequent basis. I don't want people holding doors for
> me. They don't know where to stand, they get in the way, I can't get through
> the door with my bike without bumping them or bumping myself or my bike in
> an effort not to bump them. It's awkward.


yeah. was holding the door open for him asking him to go thru the door
first, i was holding the door open and standing behind the door - full
passage way open for the cyclist.

>
> On the other hand, I know how to go through doors with my bike. I know how
> to do it effortlessly and without help.


hmm... i guess, that must be it. He knows a certain way, let him make
fine tune it.

+ravi
 
R

Ravi

Guest
Veloise wrote:
>
> Where in Little Rock was this?


one more story for you: i witnessed even recently. Sometimes i ride a
train/trolley with my bike. Once inside the train/trolley, you gotto
lift the bike up and hang it on one wheel. Once, i had just entered and
saw this happening: one lady was trying to lift a heavy mtn bike and was
struggling to get the front wheel hooked - (its kinda tricky to lift the
bike and hook the front wheel) and she is probably new to it or haven't
mastered the art of doing it. One gentleman closer to her offered to
help, but she declined it vehemently and saying "I am an independant
woman!" and then he backed off and she couldn't hang the bike, continued
to hold the bike on the floor of the train/troller until her stop.

+ravi

>
> --Karen D.
>
 

> People insist on holding the door for you because
> 1. They perceive it's unwieldy and you have to struggle with it. The
> truth is it's easy and those of us who carry our bikes through doors
> every day do it easily.
> 2. They are courteous - people hold the door open for each other when
> they don't have bikes, eh?
> 3. They don't understand that two people plus one bike do NOT fit in a
> doorway, and the effort of going around someone standing IN a doorway is
> more difficult than holding the door open for ones self.
>
> It's hard to explain item no. 3 to non-cyclists. I've given up. Now I
> pretend like I'm doing something else until they go away.
>
> Collin "Oh, I'm just putzing with my little light here for a while,
> thanks anyway." O'Neill


Coming from the point of view of someone who was wheelchair bound for 3
months, and used a electric scooter for a further 6 months, I can
completely understand how #1 and #3 interact with each other.

They percieve that you have to struggle. Frequently, when I am in a
wheelchair, it is a struggle. Life is not designed for people who are
three feet tall. But, although people see the struggle they don't see
that their "help" isn't very helpful.

*GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY 'CHAIR*

I've never really figured out how to deal with this situation. The end
result is that strangers usually come across thinking that the girl in
the 'chair is awfully rude when they were just trying to be nice and do
something equivalent to picking up my legs and walking them for me.
 
C

Colorado Bicycler

Guest
My son uses a very large electric wheelchair controlled by a sonar
device in the headrest which he operates by head position (but
fortunately he is not "bound" to it as you were/are - he doesn't take
it to bed with him at night - sorry about your having to sleep with it!
:eek:) ) and the etiquette of getting through doors is always a challenge.
I agree - when folks put their hands on his w/c is it as if they are
violating his personal space.

However, we find that most folks are very helpful when they hold the
doors for him, and we/he/his wife accepts their assistance with
pleasure. Same with my bike and doors - although it usually is easier
to do it myself, I accept their assistance as an indication of their
kindness and willingness to help. Sometimes I will just say, "Thanks
so much, but I can do this better by myself." Sometimes, it IS easier
if they hold the door for me.

So, I think both are correct: 1. The person is holding the door out
of courtesy and 2. He/she think the bicyclist needs assistance. Isn't
that neat?

Both are much better, IMHO, than slamming the door in my face, however.
 
T

The Wogster

Guest
Colorado Bicycler wrote:
> My son uses a very large electric wheelchair controlled by a sonar
> device in the headrest which he operates by head position (but
> fortunately he is not "bound" to it as you were/are - he doesn't take
> it to bed with him at night - sorry about your having to sleep with it!
> :eek:) ) and the etiquette of getting through doors is always a challenge.
> I agree - when folks put their hands on his w/c is it as if they are
> violating his personal space.
>
> However, we find that most folks are very helpful when they hold the
> doors for him, and we/he/his wife accepts their assistance with
> pleasure. Same with my bike and doors - although it usually is easier
> to do it myself, I accept their assistance as an indication of their
> kindness and willingness to help. Sometimes I will just say, "Thanks
> so much, but I can do this better by myself." Sometimes, it IS easier
> if they hold the door for me.
>
> So, I think both are correct: 1. The person is holding the door out
> of courtesy and 2. He/she think the bicyclist needs assistance. Isn't
> that neat?
>
> Both are much better, IMHO, than slamming the door in my face, however.
>


Maybe we are just more mobility advanced up here in Canada, but
commercial buildings, and newer multi-unit residential buildings (and
some older renovated buildings) have automatic doors[1]. When I biked
to the bank last week, I wanted to take my bike inside while using the
bank machine, I used the automatic door, and then walked the bike
through, nice and simple. Leaving was the same deal, push the button,
and go through the now open door. They are not required for single unit
residential buildings, however I assume you could get one. However for
multi-unit buildings they are code, so if your renovating an older
building enough that you need to meet newer building code, they are
required. If the door is not at street level, then a ramp is also
required.

I work for a courier company, and they were required to install one last
year, when they renovated the "store", and although I have only seen two
customers in wheel chairs since then, it's a heavily used feature, it's
much easier to bring a large heavy box up the ramp, and use the
automatic door then, it is to try and open two doors while carrying a
heavy box.

[1] automatic door, there is a button beside the door, you push the
button, it opens the door, waits about 30-60 seconds -- enough time for
a wheelchair to pass through, then allows the door to close normally.

W
 
C

Colorado Bicycler

Guest
Yes, we have a lot of auto doors in the lower 50 also. But stores like
Subway - yes I take my bike in there - and most other restaurants
don't, as don't many medium sized stores such as bike shops, for
example.
 
M

Mark Hickey

Guest
Ravi <[email protected]> wrote:

>one more story for you: i witnessed even recently. Sometimes i ride a
>train/trolley with my bike. Once inside the train/trolley, you gotto
>lift the bike up and hang it on one wheel. Once, i had just entered and
>saw this happening: one lady was trying to lift a heavy mtn bike and was
>struggling to get the front wheel hooked - (its kinda tricky to lift the
>bike and hook the front wheel) and she is probably new to it or haven't
>mastered the art of doing it. One gentleman closer to her offered to
>help, but she declined it vehemently and saying "I am an independant
>woman!" and then he backed off and she couldn't hang the bike, continued
>to hold the bike on the floor of the train/troller until her stop.


I've always wondered - if I'm a sexist pig when I hold a door open for
a woman who's behind me, am I a closet gay when I do it for a guy?

Life is SO confusing these days... ;-)

Mark "equal opportunity door holder" Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
 
C

Collin O'Neill

Guest
Cameron Lewis wrote:
> <I don't want people holding doors for
> <me.
>
> Alright then, next time I see a cyclist, I'll just let the door slam right
> in his face behind me.
>
>

Atta boy!

Or, just at least not start a politeness contest when they say, "Oh, I
got it, thanks, though."
 
B

Bill Sornson

Guest
Mark Hickey wrote:

> I've always wondered - if I'm a sexist pig when I hold a door open for
> a woman who's behind me, am I a closet gay when I do it for a guy?


It's obviously a far-right-wing Christian Fundamentalist Sectarian attempt
at mind and behavior control. Duh!

Bill "that pocket bible you slip 'em is the giveaway" S.
 
L

Leo Lichtman

Guest
<[email protected]> wrote: (clip) *GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY 'CHAIR*
(clip)
****************
I think it would be presumptuous and rude to take hold of someone's
wheelchair without asking first: "Would you like some help?"
 
V

Veloise

Guest
Jeff "life is good" wrote:
....
> It used to be really simple. I was raised to be courteous to people.
> All people, male and female, handicapped or able-bodied. I still hold
> doors for people, and when someone holds the door for me, I accept it
> and say thank you....


My own pet peeve (with wheels or not) is the person who thinks that
standing in the doorway, with an arm blocking my passage to hold the
door open, is doing me a favor. I have a knee thing (no more volleyball
sidesteps) so I can't navigate around this, and getting into that
little dance of "who's going which way" can cause additional injury. In
such instances I hang back and wait.

One notable instance caused my "helper" to become angry, and she pulled
the door shut in my face. "Fine, I won't help you!!" It was not worth
explaining ACL and the likelihood of a small wrong movement causing me
pain and injury for days or weeks. (If the sole of my shoe catches on
the floor I can be couch-bound and heating pad-ded for several hours.
Cycling is helpful.

FWIW, I have no visible ADA issue. This is always just common misguided
courtesy.

When someone tried this with the two of us (bike and me), I smiled and
said, thanks, it works better if I do it. (Double door that opens out,
I push it with right arm and it stays open long enough to get the bike
through.) I leave mine in the vestibule of USPS while I run in to my PO
box.

HTH

--Karen D.
 
C

Cameron Lewis

Guest
<I don't want people holding doors for
<me.

Alright then, next time I see a cyclist, I'll just let the door slam right
in his face behind me.
 
C

Cameron Lewis

Guest
<am I a closet gay when I do it for a guy?

Do what for a guy?
 
B

bernmart

Guest
God, what an arrogant thing to say. I know people who've had ACL, and
it's agonizing. The fact that Karen is still riding, despite ACL,
makes me pretty sure who'd be doing the whining with a similar level of
pain.

I don't have much patience with people who do macho strutting ********
on the web, where it's safe and they can pretend to be tough guys.