Should riders caught for doping go to jail? (poll)
- Thread starter dsschanze
- Start date
I'm kind of ambivalent. Morally I don't think the cyclists who test positive should do time as they have been pushed into their predicament mostly by the system IMHO.
As a means to the end of ending doping in cycling however... it might be the straw that breaks the omerta camel's back.
As a means to the end of ending doping in cycling however... it might be the straw that breaks the omerta camel's back.
No. Counterproductive. Like big fines for dope possession, it targets the wrong people and isn't an effective deterrent.
What has to change is whether people get caught or not. The consequences of being caught are already fatal to someone's career, but no-one feared getting caught. If you have criminal consequences you'll need the criminal standard of proof, which is higher than the existing system that already lets most of them through the net.
In short, if you're asking for gaol time, you won't catch anyone, let alone the big fish.
What has to change is whether people get caught or not. The consequences of being caught are already fatal to someone's career, but no-one feared getting caught. If you have criminal consequences you'll need the criminal standard of proof, which is higher than the existing system that already lets most of them through the net.
In short, if you're asking for gaol time, you won't catch anyone, let alone the big fish.
No. 2 year ban is good enough as a penalty for a rider.
Fine the hell out of a team though, maybe even the sponsor(s).
Fine the hell out of a team though, maybe even the sponsor(s).
I agree with you that the chance of getting caught has to go up for the problem to end. Ideally to 100%. Everybody holding each other's hand and promising they won't dope in the future is BS IMO.Drongo said:
Even a huge unraveling of the omerta won't probably change the equation too much about doping in the future if it is possible to skirt tests. All it will potentially achieve is the likes of Armstrong and Hein-Verbruggin getting some justice... which would make a lot of people happy here in any case.
My goal as an observer with any of these developments is a clean sport in the future. And the only way to do that it seems is to make a huge investment in doping control. Something the stakeholders don't really want to have to do if they can avoid it. But it is the only way.
There's got to be some victims in any jail-able crime. I mean, corporate fraudsters damage the lives of real people by losing their saving but they rarely get jail time, and when they do it's minimum security resort prison. The only real victim here is the sport itself; the worlds not going to end if top level cycling ends.
If cyclist started to die from doping I guess then you could argue victims existed.
If cyclist started to die from doping I guess then you could argue victims existed.
Doping is destroying the sport itself and some of the flimsier fans like the children or the total fans.
Imagine what would have happened if Armstrong had been found positive?
They are making a lot of money because of fans. They should accept that responsability.
Imagine what would have happened if Armstrong had been found positive?
They are making a lot of money because of fans. They should accept that responsability.
IMO, if a rider is caught for doping, the whole team should be banned for at least 1 year. That will cause the doctors and management to think twice before having a systematic doping program, and also probably police the rogue riders (who act outside the team) more.
No.
Jails are crowded enough. Save the cells for actual criminals.
Sport is nothing but entertainment. What is the violation on society that causes actual harm? There are no real victims other than the riders themselves.
Yes, I get the "but they lied to us fans and held themselves out as something they were not" argument. Whoopty-do. People lie to people everyday about a lot of things, and they don't go to jail for it.
The athlete's actions do nothing but harm to themselves. THEY are the victims really, not the offenders. Do their actions put pressure on other athletes to dope, on our youth and future athletes of tomorrow? Yes. Of course I get that. HOWEVER, that is not the athlete's burden. It is the distributors. Is it a jailable offense for illegal distribution of performance enhancing drugs/prescription pharmaceuticals? Yes. For mere usage? No. (IMO).
Some argue usage of street drugs should not be a jailable offense either, because they too are the victim. The distinguishing factor there (and I'm not arguing one side or the other, but only pointing it out), is that they are using mind-altering drugs and ARE a danger to society if they drive and kill someone for example. So, not comparing apples to apples between performance-enhancing drugs and street drugs.
Someone might argue that performance enhancing drugs ARE mind-altering . . . 'roid rage for example. Not the same thing in my book, but if they really act out on others with violence, then get 'em for the assault, not usage of steroids.
EDIT: as for the deterence factor . . . I get that and it is a valid point. However, I think using jail time for deterence should only be reserved for "real" crimes.
Jails are crowded enough. Save the cells for actual criminals.
Sport is nothing but entertainment. What is the violation on society that causes actual harm? There are no real victims other than the riders themselves.
Yes, I get the "but they lied to us fans and held themselves out as something they were not" argument. Whoopty-do. People lie to people everyday about a lot of things, and they don't go to jail for it.
The athlete's actions do nothing but harm to themselves. THEY are the victims really, not the offenders. Do their actions put pressure on other athletes to dope, on our youth and future athletes of tomorrow? Yes. Of course I get that. HOWEVER, that is not the athlete's burden. It is the distributors. Is it a jailable offense for illegal distribution of performance enhancing drugs/prescription pharmaceuticals? Yes. For mere usage? No. (IMO).
Some argue usage of street drugs should not be a jailable offense either, because they too are the victim. The distinguishing factor there (and I'm not arguing one side or the other, but only pointing it out), is that they are using mind-altering drugs and ARE a danger to society if they drive and kill someone for example. So, not comparing apples to apples between performance-enhancing drugs and street drugs.
Someone might argue that performance enhancing drugs ARE mind-altering . . . 'roid rage for example. Not the same thing in my book, but if they really act out on others with violence, then get 'em for the assault, not usage of steroids.
EDIT: as for the deterence factor . . . I get that and it is a valid point. However, I think using jail time for deterence should only be reserved for "real" crimes.
earth_dweller said:
It has to be a 4year ban for me. It is funny how the so called clean teams have employed ex dopers or rumoured to be dopers after there 2 year ban, possible reasons could be they are still benefiting from dope in there current performances. Millar, Basso, Hamilton(can't believe he still rides) should have had longer bans.
In some cases a rider can dope without the knowledge of the team and DS. All they have to do is buy there stuff on the internet and approach a doctor in the know and not the doctor on the team. Credit Agricole didn't have a doctor on the tour, they used to use the tour doctor not sure if this is true now.tasmart said:
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