Should the Christian, Christmas be abolished?

[Brian Cotgrove]

Over the course of the past three months in Australia we have been bashed around the ears by "Some"? Stating that those people who run or are in charge of Kindergarten's should be aware of the sensitivity of other's from different denominations, when it comes to "Celebrating" the "Christian Festive Season"

Many have had a directive to not have the traditional decorations, ie: the Tree, Bells and Carols etc., their establishments?

Has the world gone completely mad or is it just the "Lilly Livered Politicians" frightened of their own shadow. These same people who are supposed to be running our country (Australia). Seem to flip flop both ways, I suppose it's a bit of two bob each way, just incase I don't lose all my cash all at once?

Does this phenomenon occur in other country's around the world or are we the only mob of sheep being led by shepherds who have lost the plot completely.

I heard only this morning, via the "cats whisker" that there were a group (Don't ask me who) in the USA, who were advocating the boycott of any store that showed the traditional "Christmas Decorations". I almost choked on my peice of toast.

If I decided to go to live in Japan for instance, I would be expected to conform to their ways and customs, I would have to learn to speak Japanese and would have to abide by the rules and regulations therein.

Why is it, that we here, are expected to change the ways and customs of a lifetime, because the other denominations who come to live in this country, might be offended.

I hope this brings about some sort of intelligent debate, I'm neither a racist nor a bigott as many of my friends will attest, from different nationality's.

Has The Whole Bloody World Gone Completely "Politically Correct" Mad or Is There Hope For All Humanity Yet? TBC

 

[gclark8]

chriatmas is not christian, its commercial and roman.

The New Testamant has no mention of it, however it supports Chunakah, the Time of Great Miracles, including the conception of the Messiah.

See my December Card: http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/adonai/DECEMBER.htm

 

[DarrenT]

chriatmas is not christian, its commercial and roman.

George,
I think you've missed the point. Regardless of the commercialism spoiling Christmas, the right of children in this country to celebrate it is part of our heritage. I find it frustrating that our politicians are shying away from public celebrations of Xmas on the grounds that people of other religions are offended. This argument seems to fall down whenever anyone asks for an example, as it seems the complaints don't exist. We should maintain our culture, just as we are told that we should accept the culture of those that have migrated to Australia. Multiculturalism is a two-way street, and I think most migrants are happy to join in with the celebrations at this time of year, regardless of their own religions.

Differing religions is not our biggest problem. That honour lies with our politicians.

Have a good Christmas (if you dare)!

 

[Brian Cotgrove]

George,
I think you've missed the point. Regardless of the commercialism spoiling Christmas, the right of children in this country to celebrate it is part of our heritage. I find it frustrating that our politicians are shying away from public celebrations of Xmas on the grounds that people of other religions are offended. This argument seems to fall down whenever anyone asks for an example, as it seems the complaints don't exist. We should maintain our culture, just as we are told that we should accept the culture of those that have migrated to Australia. Multiculturalism is a two-way street, and I think most migrants are happy to join in with the celebrations at this time of year, regardless of their own religions.

Differing religions is not our biggest problem. That honour lies with our politicians.

Have a good Christmas (if you dare)!

G'day Darren T, Thanks, I had hoped that at least someone would respond in like form. I totally agree with what you have posted and that was my main gripe. I also agree in part with George with regards the commercialism of the festival, but as someone said to me just a couple of days ago we can't turn back the clock and are going to have to live with this. Whether we like it or not?

I have friends from several different country's who like most of us, just get into the spirit of Christmas as is the custom. The Children are the ones who embrace this in the same spirit of love and friendship because they are not predudiced in any way and do not see colour, race, or religion as being a barrier. One only need look at a group of Children of mixed ethnic backgrounds, playing in a kindergarten or preschool to see that they get on with play, and do so without any problems.

Usually it is the parents or the do gooders with private agenda's, who hang on to outdated predudices and cause the friction on both sides, both Migrants and Australians alike, as is demonstrated in so many ways, with the neccesity to introduce laws in an attempt to kerb bigotry and racialism.

Of course the commercial realism that surround The Christmas Festival is getting totally out of hand, as can be seen by the way the advertising and marketing industry whip up the shopping frenzy at this time of the year. We are now seeing incidents of rage not only on ther road but in shopping centre car parks, over such things a spaces for cars, all associated with the Christmas festival and the same shopping frenzy.

Where will it all end is anybody's guess, I sincerely hope that before too long someone who can make a real difference, will make the right decisions to put a stop to the P'C' that is sweeping the world, or if not put as stop to it, at least put the brakes on gently for all our sakes.

As a nation we are grossly over regulated and this takes away from us the duty of care and the resonsibility of acting with love and compassion towards our fellow human beings, especially those amongst us who are less fortunate.

I say, as you, Have a Merry Christmas if you dare?

 

[gclark8]

Did you read my December card?

 

[Brian Cotgrove]

Did you read my December card?

G'day George, unfortunately "NO" for whatever reason it would not respond, when I tried to open it, I have the same trouble with lots of other things since installing "Fire Wall" and the latest version of "Norton Anti Virus".

Although I know how to paddle around this device without too many problems I am not right up there with "I'T" matters?

I get a lot of stuff sent to me and the device will not play the game, but I'm not in the habit of losing any sleep over it, if you get my meaning. Life's too short for that kind of stuff?

Cheers anyway, have a good Christmas? If you Dare?

Keep the wheels in motion too, and don't look back unless it's to see who you dropped on the last climb?

 

[gclark8]

The text of the card:

The December Dilemma.

Conception or Birth ?

Bible or Tradition ?

Chanukah or Christmas ?


About 2,168 years ago, when the Greeks controlled Jerusalem, some lads from the hills decided to take back the Temple. After their success in 164BCE, the Temple was cleaned up and re-dedicated. The consecrated oil found for the Menorah was only sufficient for one day, 25 Kislev. But, A Great Miracle Happened Here and the oil lasted 8 days. This story can be read in the books of the Maccabees.

Some 164 years later a Jewish Virgin, Miryam, was preparing for Chanukah. This being a time of celebration of miracles she had a sense of expectation. Who would have known what would happen next? A visit from an Angel! The Angel tells her she will have a son, not just any son, but the Son of God, The Messiah! How could this be? Being observant, she was familiar with the Psalms and Prophets and knew the answer.

About forty weeks later, around Succoth, 15 Tishri, there was a census. The family travelled to Bethlehem but due to a lack of accommodation stayed in the sukkah where the child was borne. This story you can read in the book of Luke, the New Testament.

Some 30 years later Yeshua (Jesus), this same child now a Rabbi, celebrates Chanukah in Jerusalem (John 10:22).

Look in your Bible for Christmas. No, can't find it? Try Santa. Can't find him either? He does look like the old guy in the Coke ad. So now you can see why I have called my card the December Dilemma. Whichever you observe, Love one another and you will be fulfilling The Greatest Mitzvah of all.

MERRY CHRISTMAS AND
HAPPY CHANUKAH!


© George M Clark 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004.

 

[Brian Cotgrove]

The text of the card:

Thanks for that George, yes I am familiar with the teachings of the bible, written many years ago by people who's language does not entirely translate to our modern English.

But lets say you are right in this and I accept that you are. As a child of seven years of age till I left school at fifteen, I was made to attend bible studies and I was also a choir boy because my parents thought it was good for me.

Brought up in a "High Church of England" family with "Victorian" parents is no fun believe me, when I became much older I too did research into the bible and I found many annomolies with what was written. I still question it today?

My point was, this stuff we have to put up with today is a load of Bullsh*t, "Political Correctness" gone mad, and whether it's a Christian Festival or not is beside the point.

We all need to look inside, and as I said, take responsibility for our collective actions and act accordingly, with love and compassion towards our fellow man.

The politicians should take a lead here, as it is they who make the bullets for the beaurocrats to fire.

As I also said if I went to live elsewhere in the world I would have to conform to that land's rules, regulations, language and customs.

That's the truth. TBC

 

[gclark8]

I do not dissagree with any of the comments as to the current political state of affairs. Yes it has all gone too far.

What I am suggesting is, there is a greater truth, we can choose to rise above the politcs, and commercialism, if we are "into God" then we have an obligation to love one another, regardless of mans' tradition.

Tomorrow for me should be an ordinary saturday, a Sabbath, but I am not as observant as I would like, I live in "Sunday" country and for the Sunday people its a party day.

 

[Trekker2017]

George,
I think you've missed the point. Regardless of the commercialism spoiling Christmas, the right of children in this country to celebrate it is part of our heritage. I find it frustrating that our politicians are shying away from public celebrations of Xmas on the grounds that people of other religions are offended. This argument seems to fall down whenever anyone asks for an example, as it seems the complaints don't exist. We should maintain our culture, just as we are told that we should accept the culture of those that have migrated to Australia. Multiculturalism is a two-way street, and I think most migrants are happy to join in with the celebrations at this time of year, regardless of their own religions.

Differing religions is not our biggest problem. That honour lies with our politicians.

Have a good Christmas (if you dare)!

Just because it's part of your "heritage" does not make it right. If you're talking about "heritage" should'nt your "boxing day" be "penal day"? At Christmas, do you give each other "get out of jail free" presents.

The present "Christmas" or Christ's Mass was tacked on to the calendar by Pope Junius (or Julius) several hundred years after the death of Christ in order to bring a group of pagans under the "christian" fold. December 25th (or the winter solstace) was the celebration of the birth of Tamuz or the son of the sun god and was preach against in several places in the Bible. Get out a concordance and look it up. There's even a proscription against cutting evergreen trees, making hot cross buns and bowing to the east.

I belong to a sect/cult that doesn't celebrate christmas. We believe that to celebrate a lie to honor a man who stood for truth is hypocracy. Should christmas be abolished. Absolutely.

 

[FredC]

Just because it's part of your "heritage" does not make it right. If you're talking about "heritage" should'nt your "boxing day" be "penal day"? At Christmas, do you give each other "get out of jail free" presents.

The present "Christmas" or Christ's Mass was tacked on to the calendar by Pope Junius (or Julius) several hundred years after the death of Christ in order to bring a group of pagans under the "christian" fold. December 25th (or the winter solstace) was the celebration of the birth of Tamuz or the son of the sun god and was preach against in several places in the Bible. Get out a concordance and look it up. There's even a proscription against cutting evergreen trees, making hot cross buns and bowing to the east.

I belong to a sect/cult that doesn't celebrate christmas. We believe that to celebrate a lie to honor a man who stood for truth is hypocracy. Should christmas be abolished. Absolutely.

Well here in Europe we were doing just fine with our pagan midwinter festivities until the Romans came along and tagged on the bit about christ. Most of the paganisms are still used today, so we wouldn't give a **** if the christ bit went missing, we'd just include a few more rituals and some slaughter of a disbeliever like yourself to keep us and keep the crowd happy.
Listen ******** you bow to the east for that is where the Sun, giver of light and life rises.
You should have been drowned at birth. A sacrifice to the pagan water god.

 

[jhuskey]

Over the course of the past three months in Australia we have been bashed around the ears by "Some"? Stating that those people who run or are in charge of Kindergarten's should be aware of the sensitivity of other's from different denominations, when it comes to "Celebrating" the "Christian Festive Season"

Many have had a directive to not have the traditional decorations, ie: the Tree, Bells and Carols etc., their establishments?

Has the world gone completely mad or is it just the "Lilly Livered Politicians" frightened of their own shadow. These same people who are supposed to be running our country (Australia). Seem to flip flop both ways, I suppose it's a bit of two bob each way, just incase I don't lose all my cash all at once?

Does this phenomenon occur in other country's around the world or are we the only mob of sheep being led by shepherds who have lost the plot completely.

I heard only this morning, via the "cats whisker" that there were a group (Don't ask me who) in the USA, who were advocating the boycott of any store that showed the traditional "Christmas Decorations". I almost choked on my peice of toast.

If I decided to go to live in Japan for instance, I would be expected to conform to their ways and customs, I would have to learn to speak Japanese and would have to abide by the rules and regulations therein.

Why is it, that we here, are expected to change the ways and customs of a lifetime, because the other denominations who come to live in this country, might be offended.

I hope this brings about some sort of intelligent debate, I'm neither a racist nor a bigott as many of my friends will attest, from different nationality's.

Has The Whole Bloody World Gone Completely "Politically Correct" Mad or Is There Hope For All Humanity Yet? TBC

Eighty percent of US hosehold celebrate Christmas so why should 20 percent dictate what we should believe in. No one is telling the 20 percent what to do. Celebrate or don't, your choice.
Besides whether you are Christian or not it should to be the spirit of the season that is important.
Yes I know we should all have that spirit year round but if it happens only once a year then it is a good start.
It is the spirit of giving and understanding of compasion and charity that I refer to. The spirit of goodwill and peace to all.

And in that spirit I say Merry Christmas to all! May our world one day be at peace.

If the thought of that spirit is lost upon you then I have no answer for you

 

[Trekker2017]

Well here in Europe we were doing just fine with our pagan midwinter festivities until the Romans came along and tagged on the bit about christ. Most of the paganisms are still used today, so we wouldn't give a **** if the christ bit went missing, we'd just include a few more rituals and some slaughter of a disbeliever like yourself to keep us and keep the crowd happy.
Listen ******** you bow to the east for that is where the Sun, giver of light and life rises.
You should have been drowned at birth. A sacrifice to the pagan water god.

You've kind of made my point for me.... why put Christ into something he was never meant to be in in the first place?

 

[Carrera]

Hardly anyone will know this, but this whole business of political correctness has happened before. It happened in ancient Rome around 180 A.D. when all sorts of ridiculous laws were passed and society drifted into decline. In fact I'll go so far as to say I personally believe political correctness is a kind of mass inferiority complex whereby people look for a kind of escapism or a means of escaping responsibilities and pressures. It's a kind of defeatism.
The whole idea of trying to ban Christmas is basically an attack on your own values and a way of saying, "I ain't good enough and every other society must have something better to offer." Study the language of political correctness and you'll discover deep-seated insecurities, obsession over race, excuses to quit and lack of resolve. It's a quitter philosophy.
As for Japan, good point. Anyone who goes to work in Japan must agree not to interfere in Japanese politics and respect Japanese culture.

Over the course of the past three months in Australia we have been bashed around the ears by "Some"? Stating that those people who run or are in charge of Kindergarten's should be aware of the sensitivity of other's from different denominations, when it comes to "Celebrating" the "Christian Festive Season"

Many have had a directive to not have the traditional decorations, ie: the Tree, Bells and Carols etc., their establishments?

Has the world gone completely mad or is it just the "Lilly Livered Politicians" frightened of their own shadow. These same people who are supposed to be running our country (Australia). Seem to flip flop both ways, I suppose it's a bit of two bob each way, just incase I don't lose all my cash all at once?

Does this phenomenon occur in other country's around the world or are we the only mob of sheep being led by shepherds who have lost the plot completely.

I heard only this morning, via the "cats whisker" that there were a group (Don't ask me who) in the USA, who were advocating the boycott of any store that showed the traditional "Christmas Decorations". I almost choked on my peice of toast.

If I decided to go to live in Japan for instance, I would be expected to conform to their ways and customs, I would have to learn to speak Japanese and would have to abide by the rules and regulations therein.

Why is it, that we here, are expected to change the ways and customs of a lifetime, because the other denominations who come to live in this country, might be offended.

I hope this brings about some sort of intelligent debate, I'm neither a racist nor a bigott as many of my friends will attest, from different nationality's.

Has The Whole Bloody World Gone Completely "Politically Correct" Mad or Is There Hope For All Humanity Yet? TBC

 

[Carrera]

P.S. I'm not a believer in any traditonal religion, but if Christianity is part of the heritage of a country there's no need to push Christmas into a closet and feel ashamed. You are what you are.

 

[FredC]

Hardly anyone will know this, but this whole business of political correctness has happened before. It happened in ancient Rome around 180 A.D. when all sorts of ridiculous laws were passed and society drifted into decline. In fact I'll go so far as to say I personally believe political correctness is a kind of mass inferiority complex whereby people look for a kind of escapism or a means of escaping responsibilities and pressures. It's a kind of defeatism.
The whole idea of trying to ban Christmas is basically an attack on your own values and a way of saying, "I ain't good enough and every other society must have something better to offer." Study the language of political correctness and you'll discover deep-seated insecurities, obsession over race, excuses to quit and lack of resolve. It's a quitter philosophy.
As for Japan, good point. Anyone who goes to work in Japan must agree not to interfere in Japanese politics and respect Japanese culture.

Very succintly put, I might say, and will no doubt not get a response.

 

[MountainPro]

Well here in Europe we were doing just fine with our pagan midwinter festivities until the Romans came along and tagged on the bit about christ. Most of the paganisms are still used today, so we wouldn't give a **** if the christ bit went missing, we'd just include a few more rituals and some slaughter of a disbeliever like yourself to keep us and keep the crowd happy.
Listen ******** you bow to the east for that is where the Sun, giver of light and life rises.
You should have been drowned at birth. A sacrifice to the pagan water god.

yes, the pagans have been celebrating the winter solstice for a lot longer and there are ancient monuments in the UK, Ireland, France etc. that are built to commemorate this time of year (21st december..the real Christmas) that pre-date the Egyptian pyramids by thousands of years...

Maes Howe, Orkney to name but one.
http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/westmainland/maeshowe/

the Romans indeed...

but Christmas has become far too commercialised, i blame Santa and Coca Cola.

 

[Fixey]

P.S. I'm not a believer in any traditonal religion, but if Christianity is part of the heritage of a country there's no need to push Christmas into a closet and feel ashamed. You are what you are.

I believe that words change meaning over time. Take two words that where common as I grew up, bugger and sod. Both where very mild derogitory slang used to playfully jibe someone, hisorically though both words where the foulest of the foul as far as insults go. Same with christmas.....Christmas has virtually nothing to do with Christianity any more (for most of us anyway) It is simply seen as a day to celebrate families and giving. Both extreme sides may whine like hell about "Putting Christ back in Christmas" or "Cultural Sensitivty" but the reality is most of us dont see christmas as a religious holiday anymore!

 

[LottomagicZ4941]

I got in trouble once for replying to an E-mail at work. A co-worker joked that she hoped the kids would not be permitted to wear scarry/evil outfits to school.

So I asked which is more offensive taking Evil out of Halloween or the Good out of Christmass.

"Again and again it is always heaven and hell" Dio bellowing for Black Sabath.

Perhaps these things should be abolished in the public schools. But what people choose to do on their own time is their choice.

My parents told me that "Santa was comming late" Instead of getting all sorts of expencive toys on 25 of Dec we would hit the stores on the 26th of December and get bunches and bunches of bargans

 

[Brian Cotgrove]

Well here in Europe we were doing just fine with our pagan midwinter festivities until the Romans came along and tagged on the bit about christ. Most of the paganisms are still used today, so we wouldn't give a **** if the christ bit went missing, we'd just include a few more rituals and some slaughter of a disbeliever like yourself to keep us and keep the crowd happy.
Listen ******** you bow to the east for that is where the Sun, giver of light and life rises.
You should have been drowned at birth. A sacrifice to the pagan water god.

FredC, beautifully put, those bloody Romans have a lot to answer for, what did they ever do for Britian, besides sanitation, baths, democracy, I tell you, they need to take a good long look at themselves.

Reminds me of a few words I heard once, was it John Cleese, or maybe ?

Fanbloodytastic, Off with their heads. Let's all get down to the ring. Bring the blunt knife for this one.

Make sure you're wearing your winter furs as Lands End can be bloody drafty at this time of the year.TBC