Sick of the "they knew the risk" remark

[davidmc]

I thought that there was a bit of momentum and that at least we were going to hear from someone who was actually there.
Pity.

Feelings here, really are irrelevent. He was given orders to "ship out" & he chose to carry out those orders. One can carry out an order w/ misgivings or dissention of the order noted in his record(?) but most will carry out an order. As Roadhog posted, the civilians call all of "the shots" & the military has to carry them out. I beleive that General Grant once observed, on his opinion of whether or not one of his campaign's troubled him due to the casualties or some of the tactics (all out war) of the civil war bothered him & he replied: " I am given orders & I carry out those orders w/o question." Thats pretty much what I said in the beginning of my post. I beleive Roadhog is very sincere & concise in his post in that he respected all military regardless of decisions they might make regarding their service.

 

[davidmc]

I think that was about the limit of a legal submission in view of his Military status.

I beleive that you are, once again, correct

 

[birdman23]

I think that was about the limit of a legal submission in view of his Military status.

I agree with you Fred. There is a limit as to what opinion someone who is active military will express. However,I have an acquaintance whose son is in the US Special Forces. He has spent most of the last three years in Afghanistan and Iraq. I have never heard him or his father say anything negative about the situation and that may very well be due to his current military status. His opinion is he signed up for the job and will do the job and support his commander-in-chief no matter what. I also have a cousin who is a Marine and one who is in the Navy and they have served in Afghanistan and Iraq. I have heard nothing but praise from them. Sure they would all rather be home with there families but they know the duty calls. I think that is the sentiment you will find amongst most of the people in the military. I can tell that Roadhog is an intelligent person and he is proud as hell to serve his country and I thank him for being willing to put his life on the line so that the democratic freedoms we enjoy can be preserved and hopefully afforded to those who have been deprived of unalienable human rights for so long, regardless of the lack of WMD's.

 

[limerickman]

I agree with you Fred. There is a limit as to what opinion someone who is active military will express. However,I have an acquaintance whose son is in the US Special Forces. He has spent most of the last three years in Afghanistan and Iraq. I have never heard him or his father say anything negative about the situation and that may very well be due to his current military status. His opinion is he signed up for the job and will do the job and support his commander-in-chief no matter what. I also have a cousin who is a Marine and one who is in the Navy and they have served in Afghanistan and Iraq. I have heard nothing but praise from them. Sure they would all rather be home with there families but they know the duty calls. I think that is the sentiment you will find amongst most of the people in the military. I can tell that Roadhog is an intelligent person and he is proud as hell to serve his country and I thank him for being willing to put his life on the line so that the democratic freedoms we enjoy can be preserved and hopefully afforded to those who have been deprived of unalienable human rights for so long, regardless of the lack of WMD's.

So Roadhog was protecting your freedom by being in Iraq ?
How was Roadhog protecting YOUR freedom by being in Iraq ?

 

[roadhog]

Perhaps to the dismay of some, I really have no interest in participating in a long and drawn out debate about all this. Let me ask you this, would anything I say have ANY impact whatsoever on your current position on this whole issue, regardless of what my stance is? That's a rhetorical question, no need to answer.

I had no reservations about deploying and later crossing the border from Kuwait into Iraq under hostile cirumstances. I have no regrets about it today. I wish I would have been home to see my 2nd child's birth, and many other related things, but I have no regrets. I believe in the system that put me in that situation. Sure, I'm frustrated that no WMD's were found. Isn't everyone? But I also witnessed many many successful and moving moments. There is no question that the whole thing is a mess now. Does that mean it's not worth it? Different question entirely. Perhaps nobody will know how "worth it" the whole thing is until 10 or 15 years down the road. The loss of life on all sides is tragic, but sometimes the reality of human nature mandates that tragic losses of life must occur to remedy certain situations. Some pretty tragic things have happened in Iraq, and many wonderful things are happening and continue to happen as well. I don't pretend to be in any position of knowledge or authority to pass judgement on the WMD intelligence or its sources. I do, however, strongly believe that we have an incredibly sound political, diplomatic, and military system for dealing with such situations. Is it perfect? No (see my previous post), but that doesn't mean that we, as a system, aren't doing our best to do the right thing. What else can we do?
And someone here said something like everyone (military) should refuse to go or resign (or something like that). What?! Where would the world be if every husband and father throughout history had the choice to refuse such an action? I expect that several of you at the least might fly a different flag in your driveway today, if you were even allotted that freedom of expression. And I have visited the countries of most of you represented in this forum. They are all wonderful places, and I am glad they are free today - for the sake of all of us.

Thanks for the interest in my previous post, but I don't have an interest in debating every political decision in this sort of venue. It's not because I'm forbidden to (imagine that!). It's simply because I choose not to. I rather enjoy blowing off steam on my bike than on my keyboard.

Feelings here, really are irrelevent. He was given orders to "ship out" & he chose to carry out those orders. One can carry out an order w/ misgivings or dissention of the order noted in his record(?) but most will carry out an order. As Roadhog posted, the civilians call all of "the shots" & the military has to carry them out. I beleive that General Grant once observed, on his opinion of whether or not one of his campaign's troubled him due to the casualties or some of the tactics (all out war) of the civil war bothered him & he replied: " I am given orders & I carry out those orders w/o question." Thats pretty much what I said in the beginning of my post. I beleive Roadhog is very sincere & concise in his post in that he respected all military regardless of decisions they might make regarding their service.

 

[jhuskey]

Perhaps to the dismay of some, I really have no interest in participating in a long and drawn out debate about all this. Let me ask you this, would anything I say have ANY impact whatsoever on your current position on this whole issue, regardless of what my stance is? That's a rhetorical question, no need to answer.

I had no reservations about deploying and later crossing the border from Kuwait into Iraq under hostile cirumstances. I have no regrets about it today. I wish I would have been home to see my 2nd child's birth, and many other related things, but I have no regrets. I believe in the system that put me in that situation. Sure, I'm frustrated that no WMD's were found. Isn't everyone? But I also witnessed many many successful and moving moments. There is no question that the whole thing is a mess now. Does that mean it's not worth it? Different question entirely. Perhaps nobody will know how "worth it" the whole thing is until 10 or 15 years down the road. The loss of life on all sides is tragic, but sometimes the reality of human nature mandates that tragic losses of life must occur to remedy certain situations. Some pretty tragic things have happened in Iraq, and many wonderful things are happening and continue to happen as well. I don't pretend to be in any position of knowledge or authority to pass judgement on the WMD intelligence or its sources. I do, however, strongly believe that we have an incredibly sound political, diplomatic, and military system for dealing with such situations. Is it perfect? No (see my previous post), but that doesn't mean that we, as a system, aren't doing our best to do the right thing. What else can we do?
And someone here said something like everyone (military) should refuse to go or resign (or something like that). What?! Where would the world be if every husband and father throughout history had the choice to refuse such an action? I expect that several of you at the least might fly a different flag in your driveway today, if you were even allotted that freedom of expression. And I have visited the countries of most of you represented in this forum. They are all wonderful places, and I am glad they are free today - for the sake of all of us.

Thanks for the interest in my previous post, but I don't have an interest in debating every political decision in this sort of venue. It's not because I'm forbidden to (imagine that!). It's simply because I choose not to. I rather enjoy blowing off steam on my bike than on my keyboard.

Very insightful post. I would like to think that you and I have some in common in the way we think.

 

[birdman23]

So Roadhog was protecting your freedom by being in Iraq ?
How was Roadhog protecting YOUR freedom by being in Iraq ?

He wasn't protecting my freedom Lim. Finish reading my post. Let me save you some time....

"and hopefully afforded to those who have been deprived of unalienable human rights for so long."
He was there to try and help others to gain the freedoms that we enjoy.

 

[birdman23]

Perhaps to the dismay of some, I really have no interest in participating in a long and drawn out debate about all this. Let me ask you this, would anything I say have ANY impact whatsoever on your current position on this whole issue, regardless of what my stance is? That's a rhetorical question, no need to answer.

I had no reservations about deploying and later crossing the border from Kuwait into Iraq under hostile cirumstances. I have no regrets about it today. I wish I would have been home to see my 2nd child's birth, and many other related things, but I have no regrets. I believe in the system that put me in that situation. Sure, I'm frustrated that no WMD's were found. Isn't everyone? But I also witnessed many many successful and moving moments. There is no question that the whole thing is a mess now. Does that mean it's not worth it? Different question entirely. Perhaps nobody will know how "worth it" the whole thing is until 10 or 15 years down the road. The loss of life on all sides is tragic, but sometimes the reality of human nature mandates that tragic losses of life must occur to remedy certain situations. Some pretty tragic things have happened in Iraq, and many wonderful things are happening and continue to happen as well. I don't pretend to be in any position of knowledge or authority to pass judgement on the WMD intelligence or its sources. I do, however, strongly believe that we have an incredibly sound political, diplomatic, and military system for dealing with such situations. Is it perfect? No (see my previous post), but that doesn't mean that we, as a system, aren't doing our best to do the right thing. What else can we do?
And someone here said something like everyone (military) should refuse to go or resign (or something like that). What?! Where would the world be if every husband and father throughout history had the choice to refuse such an action? I expect that several of you at the least might fly a different flag in your driveway today, if you were even allotted that freedom of expression. And I have visited the countries of most of you represented in this forum. They are all wonderful places, and I am glad they are free today - for the sake of all of us.

Thanks for the interest in my previous post, but I don't have an interest in debating every political decision in this sort of venue. It's not because I'm forbidden to (imagine that!). It's simply because I choose not to. I rather enjoy blowing off steam on my bike than on my keyboard.

Well said Roadhog. That was by and large one of the most intelligent posts I have read on this entire forum. God bless for what you do!

 

[zapper]

Well said Roadhog. That was by and large one of the most intelligent posts I have read on this entire forum. God bless for what you do!

concur with you birdman.

 

[limerickman]

He wasn't protecting my freedom Lim. Finish reading my post. Let me save you some time....

"and hopefully afforded to those who have been deprived of unalienable human rights for so long."
He was there to try and help others to gain the freedoms that we enjoy.

You wrote that YOUR democratic freedom was threatened by Iraq : you wanted your freedom preserved (here's your quote)

I thank him for being willing to put his life on the line so that the democratic freedoms we enjoy can be preserved.........
.

So how did Iraq threaten YOUR freedom ?

 

[birdman23]

You wrote that YOUR democratic freedom was threatened by Iraq : you wanted your freedom preserved (here's your quote)



So how did Iraq threaten YOUR freedom ?

NO I did not. It was very clear what I said. Don't start playing your puerile little games with me on this thread and don't start trying to twist my words. Let it be. I will not acknowledge you on this particular thread again so spare your fingers the effort and don't bother replying.

 

[zapper]

You wrote that YOUR democratic freedom was threatened by Iraq : you wanted your freedom preserved (here's your quote)
So how did Iraq threaten YOUR freedom ?

Lim, you have stooped to an all time low here...The birdman is not one to stoop to your level. He has always conducted himself in a professional manner on here...You only make yourself look foolish to pursue a class act like the birdman. I'd think about that for a moment if I were you..

 

[limerickman]

NO I did not. It was very clear what I said. Don't start playing your puerile little games with me on this thread and don't start trying to twist my words. Let it be. I will not acknowledge you on this particular thread again so spare your fingers the effort and don't bother replying.

Your words, are your words, I'm afraid.

I just asked on what basis do you feel that your democractic freedoms were threatened by Iraq.

 

[limerickman]

Lim, you have stooped to an all time low here...The birdman is not one to stoop to your level. He has always conducted himself in a professional manner on here...You only make yourself look foolish to pursue a class act like the birdman. I'd think about that for a moment if I were you..

So he didn't write that his democratic freedoms were threatened by Iraq ?

His words are his words.

 

[birdman23]

Lim, you have stooped to an all time low here...The birdman is not one to stoop to your level. He has always conducted himself in a professional manner on here...You only make yourself look foolish to pursue a class act like the birdman. I'd think about that for a moment if I were you..

It's a shame Zapper because Lim is a bright individual but he just gets so caught up in things and trying to stir up controversy. By the way, thanks for having my back.

 

[cdaleguy]

Not sure how my FREEDOMS were protected by his being there. BRAINWASH.

It's a shame Zapper because Lim is a bright individual but he just gets so caught up in things and trying to stir up controversy. By the way, thanks for having my back.

 

[zapper]

It's a shame Zapper because Lim is a bright individual but he just gets so caught up in things and trying to stir up controversy. By the way, thanks for having my back.

Anytime birdman. I know that you do not condone my posting style yet you seem to be fair and balanced. I know we don't always agree but I respect you.. I know it is hard but you tend to stay neutral.

 

[zapper]

Not sure how my FREEDOMS were protected by his being there. BRAINWASH.

Oh, if it isn't our resident foundation expert...you rocky, don't you have some rent to collect?

 

[FredC]

Anytime birdman. I know that you do not condone my posting style yet you seem to be fair and balanced. I know we don't always agree but I respect you.. I know it is hard but you tend to stay neutral.

Right Gentlemen, will you all please stand, put your hand on your left titty and the Band will play 'Hail to the Chief'

 

[birdman23]

Anytime birdman. I know that you do not condone my posting style yet you seem to be fair and balanced. I know we don't always agree but I respect you.. I know it is hard but you tend to stay neutral.

Actually Zapper I love your posts. You allow me to be neutral. I have always been a very confrontational person by nature and I have been trying for the last couple of years to be more level headed. This forum is a great way for me to practice being level. Although it is getting more and more difficult becuase of certain forum members and their incessant *****ing and moaning. Don't they have anything better to do than to look at the US with an electron microscope. Are their countries really that boring that they have to look elsewhere for entertainment? Again they love to complain and find fault but that is one of the freedoms democratic societies have. I posed a question to the whole lot a while ago and there was not one response. The question was basically this, "you can complain about the US and its foreign policy but push come to shove if your country were under attack would you want aid from the US military?
Not ONE response from any of them because they would all want it but are to f'n proud to admit it.