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Vincent Poy
Guest
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Vincent Poy wrote:
>
>> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]>
>> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>>
>> > Vincent Poy wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]>
>> >> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>> >>
>> > <snip>
>> >> > The holter can be enough to cinch the diagnosis.
>> >>
>> >> That is probably true. I just hope the results were
>> >> accurate and is not because of the holter actually
>> >> failing and providing false results since things do
>> >> break as I've seen ECG/EKG not working correctly
>> >> before.
>> >
>> > The holter monitor typically has multiple leads. It
>> > would be unusual for *all* of the leads to malfunction
>> > (disconnect) for 5-6 seconds to create an artefactual
>> > sinus pause.
>>
>> When I mean malfunction, I don't mean disconnect since
>> holter monitors do have electronics inside and sometimes,
>> weird things happen. In science, nothing is really ever
>> fully 100%. It's always 99% followed by 9's after the
>> decimal place.
>
> For medical devices, short of lead failure, there are a
> lot of 9's after the decimal place for device failure.
> If the holter device had failed internally, a discerning
> eye should be able to detect it when studying the
> collected data.
That's true too.
>> >> >> >> As far as I know, my father is not experiencing
>> >> >> >> any of those symptoms unless confusion can be
>> >> >> >> misundersood as Alzheimer's disease.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Could be. The falls are also a concern.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That's true but he hasn't fall before or after the
>> >> >> Holter monitor.
>> >> >
>> >> > That is certainly reassuring.
>> >>
>> >> Yep, let's just say that the only time he has fallen
>> >> within the past 5 years was with the holter moniter
>> >> on. In 1999, he did have a ingenial hernia repair done
>> >> by the surgeon originally for same day discharge who
>> >> said his heart was beating abnormally so they kept him
>> >> at the Cardiology floor of the hospital for further
>> >> monitoring for 2 days and had referred to a board
>> >> certified cardiologist who did a check up at both the
>> >> hospital and then after my father was discharged
>> >> without issues, visited his office where he had 2
>> >> holter monitors and had one sent home with my father
>> >> for 24 hours and there were no problems either.
>> >> Ofcourse that was 5 years ago and his memory as well
>> >> as his strength in walking has gone downhill over the
>> >> years.
>> >
>> > Alzheimer's is not a forgiving disease.
>> >
>> >> >> >> The other thing I am concerned about is the
>> >> >> >> diagnosis since doesn't it usually require
>> >> >> >> looking at the medical history and a physical
>> >> >> >> exam which includes heart tracing using a ECG
>> >> >> >> (Electrocardiogram) to confirm the diagnosis
>> >> >> >> prior to the Holter moniter.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Few doctors are able to order appropriate testing
>> >> >> > and treatment without interviewing and examining
>> >> >> > the patient first.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The interviewing was the part that's missing. He
>> >> >> basically had the entire medical history file in
>> >> >> his hands from the Family Practice physician but he
>> >> >> had no idea why my father was there.
>> >> >
>> >> > That is a concern.
>> >>
>> >> And I guess the office assistant of the Family
>> >> Practice Physician told him off. =)
>> >
>> > That certainly does not help.
>> >
>> >> >> >> The Internal Medicine/Cardiologist did not do
>> >> >> >> an ECG at all. The other thing is I thought it
>> >> >> >> usually would take more than one visit to
>> >> >> >> monitor the symptoms but for this physician, it
>> >> >> >> seems to be only one visit with the Holter
>> >> >> >> Moniter and that's it. There is a chance that
>> >> >> >> the Holter Monitor could be defective or the
>> >> >> >> jewelry is affecting the accuracy of the
>> >> >> >> results as mentioned by the hospital staff who
>> >> >> >> did the Holter Monitor removal. Would the
>> >> >> >> medications: Aspirin 81mg, Aricept 10mg,
>> >> >> >> Prevacid 30mg, Glipizide 5mg have any effect on
>> >> >> >> the heartbeat rate?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Not typically.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That's true, come to think of it.
>> >> >
>> >> > I work at being truthful
>> >>
>> >> I just thought the Aspirin might have a effect but
>> >> that couldn't be it.
>> >
>> > Correct.
>> >
>> >> He used to have Hypertension up to about 3 years ago
>> >> and was taking Atenolol which is a drug that does
>> >> something to the heart.
>> >
>> > Yes, atenolol can exacerabate SSS.
>>
>> Would that be even if he stopped taking it 3 years ago
>> though?
>
> No.
Exactly as I suspected.
>> >> >> >> From reading this newsgroup, I've also learned
>> >> >> >> that usually it's the Cardiologist who does the
>> >> >> >> pacemaker procedure and also prior to being
>> >> >> >> admitted to any hospital in the US, isn't a
>> >> >> >> blood sample needed to check for potassium
>> >> >> >> levels as well as the thickness of the blood
>> >> >> >> and other tests to see if there are other paths
>> >> >> >> for the blood to flow from the heart?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > It is likely that these blood tests would have
>> >> >> > been scheduled and done shortly before the
>> >> >> > pacemaker implantation.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Speaking about pacemaker implantation, is the
>> >> >> cardiologist supposed to be the one who does it or
>> >> >> is a surgeon supposed to do it?
>> >> >
>> >> > Whoever is able to do it best is the one who should
>> >> > do it
>> >>
>> >> That's true too. My only real concern is the diagnosis
>> >> portion and from reading everything anyone has said,
>> >> it seems a board certified cardiologist for a second
>> >> opinion is in order.
>> >
>> > I don't believe anyone would argue against second
>> > opinions in general.
>>
>> Wouldn't the physician who gave the first opinion be one
>> of the primary opponents?
>
> In truth, they may not like it, but it would be unusual
> for them to openly oppose your seeking a second opinion.
True but if I did that, I might end up being on their
blacklist.
>> >> >> The other thing about Sick Sinus Syndrome and the
>> >> >> issue of sudden death is from my understanding
>> >> >> after doing some research on the net, I thought a
>> >> >> person with SSS can injure themselves during a
>> >> >> fainting episode.
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes.
>> >> >
>> >> > Falling can result in severe injuries recalling the
>> >> > recent demise of Dr. Bob Atkins.
>> >>
>> >> If I'm not mistaken, falling seems to be bad even
>> >> without SSS if one had hypertension or a stroke.
>> >
>> > Especially for the elderly.
>>
>> Just as I thought.
>>
>> >> >> An individual with certain arrhythmias has an
>> >> >> increased risk of blood clots which can cause a
>> >> >> stroke and there is a rare risk of sudden death
>> >> >> that can occur if the heart stops beating for a
>> >> >> long period of time. So is it correct that the
>> >> >> sudden death is a rare risk rather than a high
>> >> >> risk like this Cardiologist has stated.
>> >> >
>> >> > Sudden death from sick sinus syndrome (SSS) is rare.
>> >>
>> >> This non-board certified cardiologist made it sound
>> >> like it was a high risk.
>> >
>> > It may not have been intentional.
>>
>> It wouldn't if he did it once but he did it over the
>> phone and even on e- mail when I didn't even mention it.
>
> Hmmmm. I would still try not to judge.
Yeah, it's hard to judge really.
>> >> >> I mean my father is 92 years old and as far as I
>> >> >> know, the pacemaker won't prolong life and it seems
>> >> >> surgery at this age is just a huge risk.
>> >> >
>> >> > I would not say it is *huge* but there is a
>> >> > significant risk.
>> >>
>> >> Yep, seems like anything related to the organs, heart
>> >> or even brain has some significant risk.
>> >
>> > All invasive procedures have significant risk.
>>
>> True.
>>
>> >> >> >> At the present time, I've told both the
>> >> >> >> Internal Medicine/Cardiologist and the Surgeon
>> >> >> >> to postpone the procedure until further notice
>> >> >> >> since I'm worry about the risk of my father at
>> >> >> >> his old age. One other thing is for the 10
>> >> >> >> Cardiologists listed in the HMO, this is the
>> >> >> >> only one who is not Board Certified in either
>> >> >> >> Internal Medicine or Cardiology. Is this
>> >> >> >> something to worry about?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > It may be a concern.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yeah, I was just looking at your website and I
>> >> >> think I know what the certification is about. The
>> >> >> MD is more like just to certify that one has
>> >> >> completed Medical School and can practice
>> >> >> Family/General Practice assuming they are licensed
>> >> >> in the State they are practicing in. Then for
>> >> >> things like Surgery, Internal Medicine, Cardiology,
>> >> >> they require certification in each of those areas
>> >> >> practice to atleast show that the person in
>> >> >> question is actually qualified in those areas. I
>> >> >> guess if they aren't certified, then it's almost
>> >> >> like someone trying to be a doctor when they are a
>> >> >> engineer.
>> >> >> So while on the subject, I am in California and
>> >> >> :believe it
>> >> >>r not, this Internal Medicine/Cardiology
>> >> >> physician does have the last name of Chung as well
>> >> >> but on the AMA, he lists himself as follows:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Primary Specialty: Internal Medicine Major
>> >> >> Professional Activity: Office Based Practice
>> >> >> Medical School: UNIV OF THE EAST, RAMON MAGSAYSAY
>> >> >> MEM MED CTR, QUEZON CITY Graduated 1984 Residency
>> >> >> Training: UNIV CA SF SCH OF MED, CARDIOVASCULAR
>> >> >> DISEASES ST LUKE'S MED CTR, INTERNAL MEDICINE
>> >> >>
>> >> >> but when one goes to ABMS or ABIM, it shows him as
>> >> >> Not certified. California's Board of Medicine shows
>> >> >> his original license issued in 1992 and it'll
>> >> >> expire next year. So basically for someone who
>> >> >> claims to be in Internal Medicine/Cardiology that
>> >> >> completed their MD in the Philippines and then did
>> >> >> their residency at UCSF School of Medicine as well
>> >> >> as St Luke's Medical Center in San Francisco and
>> >> >> has been private practice after being licensed in
>> >> >> California for the last 12 years, he is not board
>> >> >> certified for anything he claims to specialize in.
>> >> >> It does raise a great concern as he doesn't seem to
>> >> >> have any credentials other than the MD and the
>> >> >> residency training or atleast he's not board
>> >> >> certified in the areas of his residency training.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Sorry for all the questions but I hope someone
>> >> >> >> can provide some input. Thanks for your help in
>> >> >> >> advance!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > All praises belong to God, Vince
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Heh, and to you too Andrew!
>> >> >
>> >> > I wouldn't be here if it were not for God's grace.
>> >>
>> >> Yeah, and the world is better when there are more
>> >> people like you out there.
>> >
>> > That seems to be His plan at the moment.
>> >
>> >> > May God watch over you and your mom, in Christ's
>> >> > name.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >
>> > You and your family will be in my prayers, Vince.
>>
>> Thanks as always, Dr. Chung. =)
>
> Always let what you do glorify God.
Cheers, Vince Astrophysics, PhD
news:[email protected]:
> Vincent Poy wrote:
>
>> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]>
>> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>>
>> > Vincent Poy wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]>
>> >> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>> >>
>> > <snip>
>> >> > The holter can be enough to cinch the diagnosis.
>> >>
>> >> That is probably true. I just hope the results were
>> >> accurate and is not because of the holter actually
>> >> failing and providing false results since things do
>> >> break as I've seen ECG/EKG not working correctly
>> >> before.
>> >
>> > The holter monitor typically has multiple leads. It
>> > would be unusual for *all* of the leads to malfunction
>> > (disconnect) for 5-6 seconds to create an artefactual
>> > sinus pause.
>>
>> When I mean malfunction, I don't mean disconnect since
>> holter monitors do have electronics inside and sometimes,
>> weird things happen. In science, nothing is really ever
>> fully 100%. It's always 99% followed by 9's after the
>> decimal place.
>
> For medical devices, short of lead failure, there are a
> lot of 9's after the decimal place for device failure.
> If the holter device had failed internally, a discerning
> eye should be able to detect it when studying the
> collected data.
That's true too.
>> >> >> >> As far as I know, my father is not experiencing
>> >> >> >> any of those symptoms unless confusion can be
>> >> >> >> misundersood as Alzheimer's disease.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Could be. The falls are also a concern.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That's true but he hasn't fall before or after the
>> >> >> Holter monitor.
>> >> >
>> >> > That is certainly reassuring.
>> >>
>> >> Yep, let's just say that the only time he has fallen
>> >> within the past 5 years was with the holter moniter
>> >> on. In 1999, he did have a ingenial hernia repair done
>> >> by the surgeon originally for same day discharge who
>> >> said his heart was beating abnormally so they kept him
>> >> at the Cardiology floor of the hospital for further
>> >> monitoring for 2 days and had referred to a board
>> >> certified cardiologist who did a check up at both the
>> >> hospital and then after my father was discharged
>> >> without issues, visited his office where he had 2
>> >> holter monitors and had one sent home with my father
>> >> for 24 hours and there were no problems either.
>> >> Ofcourse that was 5 years ago and his memory as well
>> >> as his strength in walking has gone downhill over the
>> >> years.
>> >
>> > Alzheimer's is not a forgiving disease.
>> >
>> >> >> >> The other thing I am concerned about is the
>> >> >> >> diagnosis since doesn't it usually require
>> >> >> >> looking at the medical history and a physical
>> >> >> >> exam which includes heart tracing using a ECG
>> >> >> >> (Electrocardiogram) to confirm the diagnosis
>> >> >> >> prior to the Holter moniter.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Few doctors are able to order appropriate testing
>> >> >> > and treatment without interviewing and examining
>> >> >> > the patient first.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The interviewing was the part that's missing. He
>> >> >> basically had the entire medical history file in
>> >> >> his hands from the Family Practice physician but he
>> >> >> had no idea why my father was there.
>> >> >
>> >> > That is a concern.
>> >>
>> >> And I guess the office assistant of the Family
>> >> Practice Physician told him off. =)
>> >
>> > That certainly does not help.
>> >
>> >> >> >> The Internal Medicine/Cardiologist did not do
>> >> >> >> an ECG at all. The other thing is I thought it
>> >> >> >> usually would take more than one visit to
>> >> >> >> monitor the symptoms but for this physician, it
>> >> >> >> seems to be only one visit with the Holter
>> >> >> >> Moniter and that's it. There is a chance that
>> >> >> >> the Holter Monitor could be defective or the
>> >> >> >> jewelry is affecting the accuracy of the
>> >> >> >> results as mentioned by the hospital staff who
>> >> >> >> did the Holter Monitor removal. Would the
>> >> >> >> medications: Aspirin 81mg, Aricept 10mg,
>> >> >> >> Prevacid 30mg, Glipizide 5mg have any effect on
>> >> >> >> the heartbeat rate?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Not typically.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That's true, come to think of it.
>> >> >
>> >> > I work at being truthful
>> >>
>> >> I just thought the Aspirin might have a effect but
>> >> that couldn't be it.
>> >
>> > Correct.
>> >
>> >> He used to have Hypertension up to about 3 years ago
>> >> and was taking Atenolol which is a drug that does
>> >> something to the heart.
>> >
>> > Yes, atenolol can exacerabate SSS.
>>
>> Would that be even if he stopped taking it 3 years ago
>> though?
>
> No.
Exactly as I suspected.
>> >> >> >> From reading this newsgroup, I've also learned
>> >> >> >> that usually it's the Cardiologist who does the
>> >> >> >> pacemaker procedure and also prior to being
>> >> >> >> admitted to any hospital in the US, isn't a
>> >> >> >> blood sample needed to check for potassium
>> >> >> >> levels as well as the thickness of the blood
>> >> >> >> and other tests to see if there are other paths
>> >> >> >> for the blood to flow from the heart?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > It is likely that these blood tests would have
>> >> >> > been scheduled and done shortly before the
>> >> >> > pacemaker implantation.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Speaking about pacemaker implantation, is the
>> >> >> cardiologist supposed to be the one who does it or
>> >> >> is a surgeon supposed to do it?
>> >> >
>> >> > Whoever is able to do it best is the one who should
>> >> > do it
>> >>
>> >> That's true too. My only real concern is the diagnosis
>> >> portion and from reading everything anyone has said,
>> >> it seems a board certified cardiologist for a second
>> >> opinion is in order.
>> >
>> > I don't believe anyone would argue against second
>> > opinions in general.
>>
>> Wouldn't the physician who gave the first opinion be one
>> of the primary opponents?
>
> In truth, they may not like it, but it would be unusual
> for them to openly oppose your seeking a second opinion.
True but if I did that, I might end up being on their
blacklist.
>> >> >> The other thing about Sick Sinus Syndrome and the
>> >> >> issue of sudden death is from my understanding
>> >> >> after doing some research on the net, I thought a
>> >> >> person with SSS can injure themselves during a
>> >> >> fainting episode.
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes.
>> >> >
>> >> > Falling can result in severe injuries recalling the
>> >> > recent demise of Dr. Bob Atkins.
>> >>
>> >> If I'm not mistaken, falling seems to be bad even
>> >> without SSS if one had hypertension or a stroke.
>> >
>> > Especially for the elderly.
>>
>> Just as I thought.
>>
>> >> >> An individual with certain arrhythmias has an
>> >> >> increased risk of blood clots which can cause a
>> >> >> stroke and there is a rare risk of sudden death
>> >> >> that can occur if the heart stops beating for a
>> >> >> long period of time. So is it correct that the
>> >> >> sudden death is a rare risk rather than a high
>> >> >> risk like this Cardiologist has stated.
>> >> >
>> >> > Sudden death from sick sinus syndrome (SSS) is rare.
>> >>
>> >> This non-board certified cardiologist made it sound
>> >> like it was a high risk.
>> >
>> > It may not have been intentional.
>>
>> It wouldn't if he did it once but he did it over the
>> phone and even on e- mail when I didn't even mention it.
>
> Hmmmm. I would still try not to judge.
Yeah, it's hard to judge really.
>> >> >> I mean my father is 92 years old and as far as I
>> >> >> know, the pacemaker won't prolong life and it seems
>> >> >> surgery at this age is just a huge risk.
>> >> >
>> >> > I would not say it is *huge* but there is a
>> >> > significant risk.
>> >>
>> >> Yep, seems like anything related to the organs, heart
>> >> or even brain has some significant risk.
>> >
>> > All invasive procedures have significant risk.
>>
>> True.
>>
>> >> >> >> At the present time, I've told both the
>> >> >> >> Internal Medicine/Cardiologist and the Surgeon
>> >> >> >> to postpone the procedure until further notice
>> >> >> >> since I'm worry about the risk of my father at
>> >> >> >> his old age. One other thing is for the 10
>> >> >> >> Cardiologists listed in the HMO, this is the
>> >> >> >> only one who is not Board Certified in either
>> >> >> >> Internal Medicine or Cardiology. Is this
>> >> >> >> something to worry about?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > It may be a concern.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yeah, I was just looking at your website and I
>> >> >> think I know what the certification is about. The
>> >> >> MD is more like just to certify that one has
>> >> >> completed Medical School and can practice
>> >> >> Family/General Practice assuming they are licensed
>> >> >> in the State they are practicing in. Then for
>> >> >> things like Surgery, Internal Medicine, Cardiology,
>> >> >> they require certification in each of those areas
>> >> >> practice to atleast show that the person in
>> >> >> question is actually qualified in those areas. I
>> >> >> guess if they aren't certified, then it's almost
>> >> >> like someone trying to be a doctor when they are a
>> >> >> engineer.
>> >> >>
So while on the subject, I am in California and>> >> >> :believe it
>> >> >>
r not, this Internal Medicine/Cardiology>> >> >> physician does have the last name of Chung as well
>> >> >> but on the AMA, he lists himself as follows:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Primary Specialty: Internal Medicine Major
>> >> >> Professional Activity: Office Based Practice
>> >> >> Medical School: UNIV OF THE EAST, RAMON MAGSAYSAY
>> >> >> MEM MED CTR, QUEZON CITY Graduated 1984 Residency
>> >> >> Training: UNIV CA SF SCH OF MED, CARDIOVASCULAR
>> >> >> DISEASES ST LUKE'S MED CTR, INTERNAL MEDICINE
>> >> >>
>> >> >> but when one goes to ABMS or ABIM, it shows him as
>> >> >> Not certified. California's Board of Medicine shows
>> >> >> his original license issued in 1992 and it'll
>> >> >> expire next year. So basically for someone who
>> >> >> claims to be in Internal Medicine/Cardiology that
>> >> >> completed their MD in the Philippines and then did
>> >> >> their residency at UCSF School of Medicine as well
>> >> >> as St Luke's Medical Center in San Francisco and
>> >> >> has been private practice after being licensed in
>> >> >> California for the last 12 years, he is not board
>> >> >> certified for anything he claims to specialize in.
>> >> >> It does raise a great concern as he doesn't seem to
>> >> >> have any credentials other than the MD and the
>> >> >> residency training or atleast he's not board
>> >> >> certified in the areas of his residency training.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Sorry for all the questions but I hope someone
>> >> >> >> can provide some input. Thanks for your help in
>> >> >> >> advance!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > All praises belong to God, Vince
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Heh, and to you too Andrew!
>> >> >
>> >> > I wouldn't be here if it were not for God's grace.
>> >>
>> >> Yeah, and the world is better when there are more
>> >> people like you out there.
>> >
>> > That seems to be His plan at the moment.
>> >
>> >> > May God watch over you and your mom, in Christ's
>> >> > name.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >
>> > You and your family will be in my prayers, Vince.
>>
>> Thanks as always, Dr. Chung. =)
>
> Always let what you do glorify God.
Cheers, Vince Astrophysics, PhD