Side pull brakes just don't work.



> Anywho, I just bought my son his first 20" bike; a diamondback
> freestyle bike. The purchase was spontaneous as ****'s sporting goods
> had it on clearance.
>
> The back U-brakes work great. Locking up the rear is no problem for my
> little guy. The front side-pull however is terrible.

What model bike?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> My first post, so I guess I should introduce myself. I am a casual
> MTBR who has been riding for a long time, so I have a fairly decent
> grasp on bike mechanics. I've assembled my own, and maintain all of
> the bikes in the house.
>
> Anywho, I just bought my son his first 20" bike; a diamondback
> freestyle bike. The purchase was spontaneous as ****'s sporting goods
> had it on clearance.
>
> The back U-brakes work great. Locking up the rear is no problem for my
> little guy. The front side-pull however is terrible.
>
> The front brake just will not stop the bike in less than 30 feet at 5
> mph or so. I tried adjusting the cable, then disassembled the whole
> thing, and greased/oiled everything, and sanded the brakepads. It
> stopped better, but barely. I then greased the cable. Right? Wrong?
> Matter of opinion? who knows. It worked better, but still pretty bad.
> I can stop on the bike as can my wife but it's far from good. THe only
> thing left that I can think of is to buy better pads, but I don't
> think that's the solution.
>
> Is there something I'm missing here?
>
> It's been a long time since I've had side pull brakes (mid 80's) but I
> remember being able to "endo" using hand brakes back then. I don't
> want the fronts to grab instantly of course sending him over the
> handlebars, but I do want him to have both brakes working properly.
> This is also his first bike with no coaster brakes.
>
> Any advice would be great, and greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks In Advance.
>
 
Mike Jacoubowsky said:
>> > Yep, another link to that shop which has consistently high prices!
>>
>> > Harris wants $19.95 for a single Tektro 984.
>>
>> > Hmmm....here's a link to *the first place* I happened to look:
>>
>> >http://tinyurl.com/25smaj
>>
>> > The *same* Tektro 984 caliper for $9.99! Just about half the price!
>> > I'm sure if I looked a little longer, I could find an even lower
>> > price.
>>
>> > Tom, with all your left-wing, socialist, pro-working man rhetoric, why
>> > do you consistently recommend a shop that regularly overcharges
>> > customers?? Overcharges by 100% in this case!!!
>>
>> Look in the mirror and you will find an answer. ;)
>>
>
> In any case, you have proved once again that Harris Cyclery is not the
> place for a fair deal. :->

There's more to a "fair deal" than just the price. Harris Cyclery does a
phenomenal job of not only running down unusual, useful items, but they also
keep them in stock (they don't just buy them when someone's closing
something out cheap) and provide a huge amount of useful information on
their website. If not for that website, many (most?) people bringing up some
items as a solution wouldn't have known they exist. Some people see value in
that and are willing to buy from them, even though their pricing may be a
bit higher.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Click to expand...
Mike,you are right on. It would appear that many here are unfamiliar, or just plain unsympathetic to the concept of overhead. There is a ton of it when running a bricks and mortar outlet, but some of us prefer to conduct business face to face with our customers and provide the service that the internet outlets cannot.
Being fairly new to the business, I still have fresh memories of the process I went through to formulate a business plan. Predicating that plan on anything less than standard industry pricing formulae would have had me laughed out of the bank. When we then charge those prices we must to remain afloat, we are accused of gouging. Well, you can't have it both ways. Service comes at a price.
As for Harris, I have relied on them as a source for stuff that just isn't available elsewhere. When I must pay retail for the goods, I pass them on to my customer without markup. I don't squawk at Harris' prices, because I know they are priced at, or sometimes below MSRP. Nothing unfair or dishonest about that.
Dan Burkhart
www.boomerbicycle.ca
 
Thanks for all the replies. I am going to try to respond to some of
them.


<< Is the rim clean of oil/grease?

Yes The rim is clean. I've made sure.


<< Are the brake levers the same?

Yes the levers are the same.


<< Inexpensive, long-reach BMX side-pull calipers have quite a bit of
flex to them......

I watched them as I pulled the lever, and they actually don't flex
much. The flex quite a bit less than the rear U-brake arms.


<< if the adjustment is your first on sidepulls then....

Not my first, but first in a while. I did double check my technique
online, and as far as I can tell I'm doing everything right.


<< It is this bike, right?

Yes, That is the one.


<< How is the brake feel on the front in terms of cable friction?

It did have some tightness, but not bad. I lubed it, and it now has
almost none.


<<One possibility is that the levers it came with are the type that
canbe set to pull either 'traditional'...Levers like this
clearly have 2 different places for the cable...

Only 1 cable end location on the lever.


<< I was wondering if the rear brake was actually a "U" brake or a "V"
brake mislabeled as a "U".

The rear is a "U" brake, not a "V" brake.


<< The bike in the URL appears to have the funky headset cable device
that allows one to spin the handlebars 360
degrees without binding the cables.

Yes is does have a rotor.



My son just tried it again a few minutes ago, and it's better, but
still not good. I'm going to see if the semi-local bike shop is open
today, and go pick up some pads if they are. This will probably be 1
step away from just ebaying a whole new setup (brake/lever/ cable.
 
On Aug 19, 7:06 am, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Nate Knutson wrote:
> > On Aug 18, 5:26 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> [email protected] wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>> My first post, so I guess I should introduce myself. I am a casual
> >>> MTBR who has been riding for a long time, so I have a fairly decent
> >>> grasp on bike mechanics. I've assembled my own, and maintain all of
> >>> the bikes in the house.
> >>> Anywho, I just bought my son his first 20" bike; a diamondback
> >>> freestyle bike. The purchase was spontaneous as ****'s sporting goods
> >>> had it on clearance.
> >>> The back U-brakes work great. Locking up the rear is no problem for my
> >>> little guy. The front side-pull however is terrible.
> >>> The front brake just will not stop the bike in less than 30 feet at 5
> >>> mph or so. I tried adjusting the cable, then disassembled the whole
> >>> thing, and greased/oiled everything, and sanded the brakepads. It
> >>> stopped better, but barely. I then greased the cable. Right? Wrong?
> >>> Matter of opinion? who knows. It worked better, but still pretty bad.
> >>> I can stop on the bike as can my wife but it's far from good. THe only
> >>> thing left that I can think of is to buy better pads, but I don't
> >>> think that's the solution.
> >>> Is there something I'm missing here?
> >>> It's been a long time since I've had side pull brakes (mid 80's) but I
> >>> remember being able to "endo" using hand brakes back then. I don't
> >>> want the fronts to grab instantly of course sending him over the
> >>> handlebars, but I do want him to have both brakes working properly.
> >>> This is also his first bike with no coaster brakes.
> >>> Any advice would be great, and greatly appreciated.
> >>> Thanks In Advance.
> >> Is the rim clean of oil/grease?
>
> >> Are the brake levers the same? If so and if they are designed for
> >> "V-brakes", it would explain why the back brake works and the front
> >> doesn't.
>
> > That doesn't make any sense; he said the rear ubrake is working fine.
> > All ubrakes use 'traditional' pull, same as the front sidepull this
> > bike has.
>
> I was wondering if the rear brake was actually a "U" brake or a "V"
> brake mislabeled as a "U".
>
> Do BMX bikes use "U" brakes, and if so, why?

Yes, u-brakes are the norm for all types of bmx freestyle (not race).
They're also referred to as 990-style brakes after the original AD990
brake. V-brakes can be found as current spec on a very few lower end
freestyle-ish bikes and on many bmx-style kids bikes (but not this
one), and are also the norm for race bikes.

As ronsonic said, lack of any protruding parts is a big plus. They
also work without major interference issues for both chainstay and
seatstay mounted frames. V-brakes tend to find ways of either
contacting your legs/ankles or finding ways of getting trashed even if
it's just by virtue of the cable and noodle needing to go around the
side of the seattube.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I am going to try to respond to some of
them.


<< Is the rim clean of oil/grease?

Yes The rim is clean. I've made sure.


<< Are the brake levers the same?

Yes the levers are the same.


<< Inexpensive, long-reach BMX side-pull calipers have quite a bit of
flex to them......

I watched them as I pulled the lever, and they actually don't flex
much. The flex quite a bit less than the rear U-brake arms.


<< if the adjustment is your first on sidepulls then....

Not my first, but first in a while. I did double check my technique
online, and as far as I can tell I'm doing everything right.


<< It is this bike, right?

Yes, That is the one.


<< How is the brake feel on the front in terms of cable friction?

It did have some tightness, but not bad. I lubed it, and it now has
almost none.


<<One possibility is that the levers it came with are the type that
canbe set to pull either 'traditional'...Levers like this
clearly have 2 different places for the cable...

Only 1 cable end location on the lever.


<< I was wondering if the rear brake was actually a "U" brake or a "V"
brake mislabeled as a "U".

The rear is a "U" brake, not a "V" brake.


<< The bike in the URL appears to have the funky headset cable device
that allows one to spin the handlebars 360
degrees without binding the cables.

Yes is does have a rotor.



My son just tried it again a few minutes ago, and it's better, but
still not good. I'm going to see if the semi-local bike shop is open
today, and go pick up some pads if they are. This will probably be 1
step away from just ebaying a whole new setup (brake/lever/ cable.
 
Bypass the rotor!!!

Get rid of the rotor, which kills a ton of stopping power, and you'll
probably see a tremendous improvement. Does your son actually *need* a
rotor? Is he going to be doing acrobatic stuff that involves spinning the
handlebars around in mid-air? If not, ditch it and life will be better.

Use a separate brake lever for each brake, no rotor. What you're looking at
is a bike designed for trick riding, not stopping. Not something we'd sell
as someone's first 20" bike, since the stopping power is low, maintenance
requirements high, and this type of bike we call a "Worker's Comp Special"
(as in, so heavy you have to make sure your staff is lifting it with their
knees, not their backs). But what the heck, kids that age have plenty of
energy. Just ditch the rotor and he'll be fine.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> <SNIP!>
>>
>> Check the brake levers, they're probably a resin/plastic material which
>> will be bending and reducing the amount of force applied to the brakes.
>>
>> I'd also check the material of the sidepulls I've seen some on kids bike
>> and cheapo MTBs made out of pressed metal which is a poor material for
>> anything except roofing flash.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> Both the levers and sidepulls are cast. Not high end by any means, but
> not bargain store grade. Made by Rush? Not familiar, but don't seem
> like complete garbage.
>
> That's part of why I'm so confused. I'm not a small guy and I'm
> worried I'm gonna break the lever before the bike stops. I really have
> to crush it to stop.
>
 
On Aug 19, 10:23 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Bypass the rotor!!!
>
> Get rid of the rotor, which kills a ton of stopping power, and you'll
> probably see a tremendous improvement. Does your son actually *need* a
> rotor? Is he going to be doing acrobatic stuff that involves spinning the
> handlebars around in mid-air? If not, ditch it and life will be better.
>
> Use a separate brake lever for each brake, no rotor. What you're looking at
> is a bike designed for trick riding, not stopping.

Detanglers can only affect the stopping power of the front brake by
way of adding friction to the front brake cable/housing. That can be
significant but the op has said that he's got the cable feel pretty
smooth at this point.

Bikes with detanglers and both front and rear brakes do use 2 levers.
The front brake cable is routed through a hollow topcap bolt, down the
inside of the steerer, out the bottom, and looped around to connect to
the brake.
 
Nate Knutson wrote:
> On Aug 19, 10:23 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Bypass the rotor!!!
>>
>> Get rid of the rotor, which kills a ton of stopping power, and you'll
>> probably see a tremendous improvement. Does your son actually *need* a
>> rotor? Is he going to be doing acrobatic stuff that involves spinning the
>> handlebars around in mid-air? If not, ditch it and life will be better.
>>
>> Use a separate brake lever for each brake, no rotor. What you're looking at
>> is a bike designed for trick riding, not stopping.
>
> Detanglers can only affect the stopping power of the front brake by
> way of adding friction to the front brake cable/housing. That can be
> significant but the op has said that he's got the cable feel pretty
> smooth at this point.
>
> Bikes with detanglers and both front and rear brakes do use 2 levers.
> The front brake cable is routed through a hollow topcap bolt, down the
> inside of the steerer, out the bottom, and looped around to connect to
> the brake.

OK, now I'm confused. I posted a suggestion that the
detangler/rotor/let-you-spin-the-bars-thingie was to blame, but now I
realize the rotor connects only to the rear brake, which the OP says
works well. The front brake seems to operate by an oddly-routed but
simple cable-and-housing setup, with the housing not even that tightly
curved, yet that's the brake the OP says is NG.

I'd still ditch the rotor, lest it start to degrade the one (rear) brake
that /is/ working on the bike, but now I don't understand what's wrong
with the front.

Good luck to the OP, changing pads sounds like it might help.

Mark J.
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Hello,
>
> My first post, so I guess I should introduce myself. I am a casual
> MTBR who has been riding for a long time, so I have a fairly decent
> grasp on bike mechanics. I've assembled my own, and maintain all of
> the bikes in the house.
>
> Anywho, I just bought my son his first 20" bike; a diamondback
> freestyle bike. The purchase was spontaneous as ****'s sporting goods
> had it on clearance.
>
> The back U-brakes work great. Locking up the rear is no problem for my
> little guy. The front side-pull however is terrible.
>
> The front brake just will not stop the bike in less than 30 feet at 5
> mph or so. I tried adjusting the cable, then disassembled the whole
> thing, and greased/oiled everything, and sanded the brakepads. It
> stopped better, but barely. I then greased the cable. Right? Wrong?
> Matter of opinion? who knows. It worked better, but still pretty bad.
> I can stop on the bike as can my wife but it's far from good. THe only
> thing left that I can think of is to buy better pads, but I don't
> think that's the solution.
>
> Is there something I'm missing here?
>
> It's been a long time since I've had side pull brakes (mid 80's) but I
> remember being able to "endo" using hand brakes back then. I don't
> want the fronts to grab instantly of course sending him over the
> handlebars, but I do want him to have both brakes working properly.
> This is also his first bike with no coaster brakes.
>
> Any advice would be great, and greatly appreciated.

steel rims? You did the usual brake cleanup but with steel rims you'll
just have limited braking.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
Well, we went and bought some new pads today (koolstop BMX pads) and
they are working better. Not enough stopping power to endo, but a lot
more than before. The new pads are surely better quality, and are
almost twice the length of the original ones. I'm going to give him
some time on it now. At least a couple weeks to see if things improve,
or get worse. If they get worse I'll replace the cable bypassing the
rotor, then if that's no good replace the whole setup (lever/brake/
cable).

For now though it seems to be working well enough. I basically knew
where this was heading, but needed to get some more experienced
opinions to let me know I didn't miss something.

Again, Thanks for all the replies!!
 
Nate Knutson wrote:
> On Aug 19, 7:06 am, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Nate Knutson wrote:
>>> On Aug 18, 5:26 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> My first post, so I guess I should introduce myself. I am a casual
>>>>> MTBR who has been riding for a long time, so I have a fairly decent
>>>>> grasp on bike mechanics. I've assembled my own, and maintain all of
>>>>> the bikes in the house.
>>>>> Anywho, I just bought my son his first 20" bike; a diamondback
>>>>> freestyle bike. The purchase was spontaneous as ****'s sporting goods
>>>>> had it on clearance.
>>>>> The back U-brakes work great. Locking up the rear is no problem for my
>>>>> little guy. The front side-pull however is terrible.
>>>>> The front brake just will not stop the bike in less than 30 feet at 5
>>>>> mph or so. I tried adjusting the cable, then disassembled the whole
>>>>> thing, and greased/oiled everything, and sanded the brakepads. It
>>>>> stopped better, but barely. I then greased the cable. Right? Wrong?
>>>>> Matter of opinion? who knows. It worked better, but still pretty bad.
>>>>> I can stop on the bike as can my wife but it's far from good. THe only
>>>>> thing left that I can think of is to buy better pads, but I don't
>>>>> think that's the solution.
>>>>> Is there something I'm missing here?
>>>>> It's been a long time since I've had side pull brakes (mid 80's) but I
>>>>> remember being able to "endo" using hand brakes back then. I don't
>>>>> want the fronts to grab instantly of course sending him over the
>>>>> handlebars, but I do want him to have both brakes working properly.
>>>>> This is also his first bike with no coaster brakes.
>>>>> Any advice would be great, and greatly appreciated.
>>>>> Thanks In Advance.
>>>> Is the rim clean of oil/grease?
>>>> Are the brake levers the same? If so and if they are designed for
>>>> "V-brakes", it would explain why the back brake works and the front
>>>> doesn't.
>>> That doesn't make any sense; he said the rear ubrake is working fine.
>>> All ubrakes use 'traditional' pull, same as the front sidepull this
>>> bike has.
>> I was wondering if the rear brake was actually a "U" brake or a "V"
>> brake mislabeled as a "U".
>>
>> Do BMX bikes use "U" brakes, and if so, why?
>
> Yes, u-brakes are the norm for all types of bmx freestyle (not race).
> They're also referred to as 990-style brakes after the original AD990
> brake. V-brakes can be found as current spec on a very few lower end
> freestyle-ish bikes and on many bmx-style kids bikes (but not this
> one), and are also the norm for race bikes.

When I was a kid, it seemed like most of the BMX bikes had just a rear
coaster brake or a long reach side-pull in front with a rear coaster.
Freestyle bikes were almost unheard of, particularly for adults.

> As ronsonic said, lack of any protruding parts is a big plus. They
> also work without major interference issues for both chainstay and
> seatstay mounted frames. V-brakes tend to find ways of either
> contacting your legs/ankles or finding ways of getting trashed even if
> it's just by virtue of the cable and noodle needing to go around the
> side of the seattube.

Makes sense.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> My first post, so I guess I should introduce myself. I am a casual
>>>> MTBR who has been riding for a long time, so I have a fairly decent
>>>> grasp on bike mechanics. I've assembled my own, and maintain all of
>>>> the bikes in the house.
>>>> Anywho, I just bought my son his first 20" bike; a diamondback
>>>> freestyle bike. The purchase was spontaneous as ****'s sporting goods
>>>> had it on clearance.
>>>> The back U-brakes work great. Locking up the rear is no problem for my
>>>> little guy. The front side-pull however is terrible.
>>>> The front brake just will not stop the bike in less than 30 feet at 5
>>>> mph or so. I tried adjusting the cable, then disassembled the whole
>>>> thing, and greased/oiled everything, and sanded the brakepads. It
>>>> stopped better, but barely. I then greased the cable. Right? Wrong?
>>>> Matter of opinion? who knows. It worked better, but still pretty bad.
>>>> I can stop on the bike as can my wife but it's far from good. THe only
>>>> thing left that I can think of is to buy better pads, but I don't
>>>> think that's the solution.
>>>> Is there something I'm missing here?
>>>> It's been a long time since I've had side pull brakes (mid 80's) but I
>>>> remember being able to "endo" using hand brakes back then. I don't
>>>> want the fronts to grab instantly of course sending him over the
>>>> handlebars, but I do want him to have both brakes working properly.
>>>> This is also his first bike with no coaster brakes.
>>>> Any advice would be great, and greatly appreciated.

>> "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Is the rim clean of oil/grease?
>>> Are the brake levers the same? If so and if they are designed for
>>> "V-brakes", it would explain why the back brake works and the front
>>> doesn't.

> Nate Knutson wrote:
>> That doesn't make any sense; he said the rear ubrake is working fine.
>> All ubrakes use 'traditional' pull, same as the front sidepull this
>> bike has.

Tom "Johnny Sunset" Sherman wrote:
> I was wondering if the rear brake was actually a "U" brake or a "V"
> brake mislabeled as a "U".
> Do BMX bikes use "U" brakes, and if so, why?

Freestyle/ flatland bikes still use them. Clearance/cable run issues
are resolved well with that brake.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> My first post, so I guess I should introduce myself. I am a casual
>>> MTBR who has been riding for a long time, so I have a fairly decent
>>> grasp on bike mechanics. I've assembled my own, and maintain all of
>>> the bikes in the house.
>>>
>>> Anywho, I just bought my son his first 20" bike; a diamondback
>>> freestyle bike. The purchase was spontaneous as ****'s sporting goods
>>> had it on clearance.
>>>
>>> The back U-brakes work great. Locking up the rear is no problem for my
>>> little guy. The front side-pull however is terrible.
>>>
>>> The front brake just will not stop the bike in less than 30 feet at 5
>>> mph or so. I tried adjusting the cable, then disassembled the whole
>>> thing, and greased/oiled everything, and sanded the brakepads. It
>>> stopped better, but barely. I then greased the cable. Right? Wrong?
>>> Matter of opinion? who knows. It worked better, but still pretty bad.
>>> I can stop on the bike as can my wife but it's far from good. THe only
>>> thing left that I can think of is to buy better pads, but I don't
>>> think that's the solution.
>>> Is there something I'm missing here?
>>> It's been a long time since I've had side pull brakes (mid 80's) but I
>>> remember being able to "endo" using hand brakes back then. I don't
>>> want the fronts to grab instantly of course sending him over the
>>> handlebars, but I do want him to have both brakes working properly.
>>> This is also his first bike with no coaster brakes.
>>> Any advice would be great, and greatly appreciated.

> Nate Knutson wrote:
>> It is this bike, right?
>> http://www.diamondbackbmx.com/items.asp?deptid=2&itemid=225

Mark wrote:
> Hope not, for the OP's sake. The bike in the URL appears to have the
> funky headset cable device that allows one to spin the handlebars 360
> degrees without binding the cables. I've worked on a few of those for
> the neighborhood kids and can attest that they (the cable devices, not
> the kids) are the work of the devil. Kludgy at best, they could be the
> cause of the trouble.

Rotors can work well, often with a new not-yet-kinked-and-rusted cable
set* which are very available and cheap. At any rate, he got the rear
set up satisfactorily. The front's where his troubles lie and rotors
aren't used for fronts.
*Rotor cables can't be disassembled for lubrication like normal brake
cables so do always work oil into them before installation.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Thanks for all the replies. I am going to try to respond to some of
> them.
> << Is the rim clean of oil/grease?
> Yes The rim is clean. I've made sure.
> << Are the brake levers the same?
> Yes the levers are the same.
> << Inexpensive, long-reach BMX side-pull calipers have quite a bit of
> flex to them......
> I watched them as I pulled the lever, and they actually don't flex
> much. The flex quite a bit less than the rear U-brake arms.
> << if the adjustment is your first on sidepulls then....
> Not my first, but first in a while. I did double check my technique
> online, and as far as I can tell I'm doing everything right.
> << It is this bike, right?
> Yes, That is the one.
> << How is the brake feel on the front in terms of cable friction?
> It did have some tightness, but not bad. I lubed it, and it now has
> almost none.
> <<One possibility is that the levers it came with are the type that
> canbe set to pull either 'traditional'...Levers like this
> clearly have 2 different places for the cable...
> Only 1 cable end location on the lever.
> << I was wondering if the rear brake was actually a "U" brake or a "V"
> brake mislabeled as a "U".
> The rear is a "U" brake, not a "V" brake.
> << The bike in the URL appears to have the funky headset cable device
> that allows one to spin the handlebars 360
> degrees without binding the cables.
> Yes is does have a rotor.
> My son just tried it again a few minutes ago, and it's better, but
> still not good. I'm going to see if the semi-local bike shop is open
> today, and go pick up some pads if they are. This will probably be 1
> step away from just ebaying a whole new setup (brake/lever/ cable.

You sound like an reasonable and somewhat informed/experienced guy. If
you can't get a reasonable brake response, yes, a new brake is cheap
compared to a rider injury. If it has steel wheels, get an aluminum
front wheel, also not expensive.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> On Aug 18, 8:48 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>>> On Aug 18, 7:50 pm, "Tom \"Johnny Sunset\" Sherman"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Joel Mayes wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>> If there is a local bicycle recycle place you should be able to get a
>>>>> better quality brake caliper for not very much.
>>>> Or one like this: <http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=1046>.
>>>> (Look Zarkie, a Harris link!)
>>> Yep, another link to that shop which has consistently high prices!
>>> Harris wants $19.95 for a single Tektro 984.
>>> Hmmm....here's a link to *the first place* I happened to look:
>>> http://tinyurl.com/25smaj
>>> The *same* Tektro 984 caliper for $9.99! Just about half the price!
>>> I'm sure if I looked a little longer, I could find an even lower
>>> price.
>>> Tom, with all your left-wing, socialist, pro-working man rhetoric, why
>>> do you consistently recommend a shop that regularly overcharges
>>> customers?? Overcharges by 100% in this case!!!
>> Look in the mirror and you will find an answer. ;)
>>
>
> In any case, you have proved once again that Harris Cyclery is not the
> place for a fair deal. :->
>
Do this other places that offer parts at much lower prices offer no
additional charge advice on component compatibility, installation
procedures, etc. like Harris does?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Well, we went and bought some new pads today (koolstop BMX pads) and
> they are working better. Not enough stopping power to endo, but a lot
> more than before. The new pads are surely better quality, and are
> almost twice the length of the original ones. I'm going to give him
> some time on it now. At least a couple weeks to see if things improve,
> or get worse. If they get worse I'll replace the cable bypassing the
> rotor, then if that's no good replace the whole setup (lever/brake/
> cable).
>
> For now though it seems to be working well enough. I basically knew
> where this was heading, but needed to get some more experienced
> opinions to let me know I didn't miss something.
>
> Again, Thanks for all the replies!!

Glad that worked out and for a mere $10 too!

Pad length is immaterial - long, short, whatever - it's all about 'swept
area'.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
> Detanglers can only affect the stopping power of the front brake by
> way of adding friction to the front brake cable/housing. That can be
> significant but the op has said that he's got the cable feel pretty
> smooth at this point.

Experience in the real world says otherwise. It's the convoluted routing
the cable takes on its way to the underside of the brake (on the front) that
causes problems. That plus...

> Bikes with detanglers and both front and rear brakes do use 2 levers.
> The front brake cable is routed through a hollow topcap bolt, down the
> inside of the steerer, out the bottom, and looped around to connect to
> the brake.

.... the bike in question, as seen in the link provided elsewhere, shows just
one brake lever. That means they're using a splitter, so your rotor is
affecting both front & rear brakes, not just the rear.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
 
On Aug 19, 9:14 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> > Detanglers can only affect the stopping power of the front brake by
> > way of adding friction to the front brake cable/housing. That can be
> > significant but the op has said that he's got the cable feel pretty
> > smooth at this point.
>
> Experience in the real world says otherwise. It's the convoluted routing
> the cable takes on its way to the underside of the brake (on the front) that
> causes problems. That plus...

Experience in the real world says what otherwise? I've assembled,
sold, and serviced many bikes with detanglers and front and rear
brakes, including at least a couple previous model years of this bike.
As I said, friction generated by the cable can decrease performance as
it takes energy to overcome the friction. There's also the possibility
of an overly sharp bend/curve causing the housing to get spread apart.
Smart cable/housing setup and/or using a fancy braided/coated cable
set mitigates both problems. Do the front brakes on these setups often
suck? Yes, of course, but how many are set up well, ever?

The other thing about this is that the cable routing isn't actually
that funky or convoluted on these setups at all. It's just that there
are a few different ways to set it up so that the bends in the housing
are way too sharp, and it's a somewhat common mistake. The main
trouble spot is having too short of a loop between the cable guide on
the fork and the brake.

> > Bikes with detanglers and both front and rear brakes do use 2 levers.
> > The front brake cable is routed through a hollow topcap bolt, down the
> > inside of the steerer, out the bottom, and looped around to connect to
> > the brake.
>
> ... the bike in question, as seen in the link provided elsewhere, shows just
> one brake lever. That means they're using a splitter, so your rotor is
> affecting both front & rear brakes, not just the rear.

http://www.diamondbackbmx.com/items.asp?deptid=2&itemid=225

It's a side shot; you just can't really see the left lever. Use of
splitters like you're talking about is not something that commonly
exists in this realm of bikes.
 
>> ... the bike in question, as seen in the link provided elsewhere, shows
>> just
>> one brake lever. That means they're using a splitter, so your rotor is
>> affecting both front & rear brakes, not just the rear.
>
> http://www.diamondbackbmx.com/items.asp?deptid=2&itemid=225
>
> It's a side shot; you just can't really see the left lever. Use of
> splitters like you're talking about is not something that commonly
> exists in this realm of bikes.

Looking at the photo again, it's possible that there are two brake levers.
However, it also looks like there is an in-line splitter shown. Heaven
forbid that it's not actually an in-line splitter but rather one of those
awful gadgets designed to keep you from being able to apply enough power to
lock your front brake. On the other hand, if it did have one of those awful
gadgets, at least the fix (for improving braking power) is simple- just
remove it.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Nate Knutson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Aug 19, 9:14 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> > Detanglers can only affect the stopping power of the front brake by
>> > way of adding friction to the front brake cable/housing. That can be
>> > significant but the op has said that he's got the cable feel pretty
>> > smooth at this point.
>>
>> Experience in the real world says otherwise. It's the convoluted routing
>> the cable takes on its way to the underside of the brake (on the front)
>> that
>> causes problems. That plus...
>
> Experience in the real world says what otherwise? I've assembled,
> sold, and serviced many bikes with detanglers and front and rear
> brakes, including at least a couple previous model years of this bike.
> As I said, friction generated by the cable can decrease performance as
> it takes energy to overcome the friction. There's also the possibility
> of an overly sharp bend/curve causing the housing to get spread apart.
> Smart cable/housing setup and/or using a fancy braided/coated cable
> set mitigates both problems. Do the front brakes on these setups often
> suck? Yes, of course, but how many are set up well, ever?
>
> The other thing about this is that the cable routing isn't actually
> that funky or convoluted on these setups at all. It's just that there
> are a few different ways to set it up so that the bends in the housing
> are way too sharp, and it's a somewhat common mistake. The main
> trouble spot is having too short of a loop between the cable guide on
> the fork and the brake.
>
>> > Bikes with detanglers and both front and rear brakes do use 2 levers.
>> > The front brake cable is routed through a hollow topcap bolt, down the
>> > inside of the steerer, out the bottom, and looped around to connect to
>> > the brake.
>>
>> ... the bike in question, as seen in the link provided elsewhere, shows
>> just
>> one brake lever. That means they're using a splitter, so your rotor is
>> affecting both front & rear brakes, not just the rear.
>
> http://www.diamondbackbmx.com/items.asp?deptid=2&itemid=225
>
> It's a side shot; you just can't really see the left lever. Use of
> splitters like you're talking about is not something that commonly
> exists in this realm of bikes.
>
 
> Looking at the photo again, it's possible that there are two brake levers.
> However, it also looks like there is an in-line splitter shown. Heaven
> forbid that it's not actually an in-line splitter but rather one of those
> awful gadgets designed to keep you from being able to apply enough power to
> lock your front brake. On the other hand, if it did have one of those awful
> gadgets, at least the fix (for improving braking power) is simple- just
> remove it.
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Yes, it has a splitter, the same type of setup that all the millions
of bikes with detanglers have for their rear brakes, other than higher-
end/customized ones with systems like an Odyssey modulever.

The right brake lever pulls a short length of cable inside a housing
that terminates in the spitter. Then attached integrally to the
splitter is another cable with 2 ends that exit it, or maybe in some
cases 2 seperate cables, each of which run through their own housing
lengths and adjusters, and terminate with special ball ends. Each of
these runs through the upper plate, into which the adjusters are
threaded, and the ball ends pull on the upper "bearing" part of the
detangler.
 
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