Side pull brakes just don't work.



M

Mike Jacoubowsky

Guest
> Yes, it has a splitter, the same type of setup that all the millions
> of bikes with detanglers have for their rear brakes, other than higher-
> end/customized ones with systems like an Odyssey modulever.


I meant that it might have had a splitter of the type that allows the use of
one brake lever for two brakes. As you note, rotors in general have a
splitter (which you call a detangler... why? Our BMX folk would cringe if I
called it that... after all, why use a term that describes what it actually
does?). Or am I further removed from that scene than I thought, and "rotor"
isn't used anymore?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Nate Knutson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>> Looking at the photo again, it's possible that there are two brake
>> levers.
>> However, it also looks like there is an in-line splitter shown. Heaven
>> forbid that it's not actually an in-line splitter but rather one of those
>> awful gadgets designed to keep you from being able to apply enough power
>> to
>> lock your front brake. On the other hand, if it did have one of those
>> awful
>> gadgets, at least the fix (for improving braking power) is simple- just
>> remove it.
>>
>> --Mike Jacoubowsky
>> Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com
>> Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

>
> Yes, it has a splitter, the same type of setup that all the millions
> of bikes with detanglers have for their rear brakes, other than higher-
> end/customized ones with systems like an Odyssey modulever.
>
> The right brake lever pulls a short length of cable inside a housing
> that terminates in the spitter. Then attached integrally to the
> splitter is another cable with 2 ends that exit it, or maybe in some
> cases 2 seperate cables, each of which run through their own housing
> lengths and adjusters, and terminate with special ball ends. Each of
> these runs through the upper plate, into which the adjusters are
> threaded, and the ball ends pull on the upper "bearing" part of the
> detangler.
>
 
M

Mike Jacoubowsky

Guest
> Rotors can work well, often with a new not-yet-kinked-and-rusted cable
> set* which are very available and cheap. At any rate, he got the rear set
> up satisfactorily. The front's where his troubles lie and rotors aren't
> used for fronts.


But can you tell me why, in an era where manufacturers are so concerned
about lawsuits they won't use quick releases on kids bikes anymore, they
don't have a clip that goes around the rotor so the brake cables can't pop
out of their slots when loose? That's always seemed a bit odd to me. I've
seen a few designs where the cables are completely captured, but those are
rarely used.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> My first post, so I guess I should introduce myself. I am a casual
>>>> MTBR who has been riding for a long time, so I have a fairly decent
>>>> grasp on bike mechanics. I've assembled my own, and maintain all of
>>>> the bikes in the house.
>>>>
>>>> Anywho, I just bought my son his first 20" bike; a diamondback
>>>> freestyle bike. The purchase was spontaneous as ****'s sporting goods
>>>> had it on clearance.
>>>>
>>>> The back U-brakes work great. Locking up the rear is no problem for my
>>>> little guy. The front side-pull however is terrible.
>>>>
>>>> The front brake just will not stop the bike in less than 30 feet at 5
>>>> mph or so. I tried adjusting the cable, then disassembled the whole
>>>> thing, and greased/oiled everything, and sanded the brakepads. It
>>>> stopped better, but barely. I then greased the cable. Right? Wrong?
>>>> Matter of opinion? who knows. It worked better, but still pretty bad.
>>>> I can stop on the bike as can my wife but it's far from good. THe only
>>>> thing left that I can think of is to buy better pads, but I don't
>>>> think that's the solution.
>>>> Is there something I'm missing here?
>>>> It's been a long time since I've had side pull brakes (mid 80's) but I
>>>> remember being able to "endo" using hand brakes back then. I don't
>>>> want the fronts to grab instantly of course sending him over the
>>>> handlebars, but I do want him to have both brakes working properly.
>>>> This is also his first bike with no coaster brakes.
>>>> Any advice would be great, and greatly appreciated.

>
>> Nate Knutson wrote:
>>> It is this bike, right?
>>> http://www.diamondbackbmx.com/items.asp?deptid=2&itemid=225

>
> Mark wrote:
>> Hope not, for the OP's sake. The bike in the URL appears to have the
>> funky headset cable device that allows one to spin the handlebars 360
>> degrees without binding the cables. I've worked on a few of those for
>> the neighborhood kids and can attest that they (the cable devices, not
>> the kids) are the work of the devil. Kludgy at best, they could be the
>> cause of the trouble.

>
> Rotors can work well, often with a new not-yet-kinked-and-rusted cable
> set* which are very available and cheap. At any rate, he got the rear set
> up satisfactorily. The front's where his troubles lie and rotors aren't
> used for fronts.
> *Rotor cables can't be disassembled for lubrication like normal brake
> cables so do always work oil into them before installation.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> www.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
C

Chalo

Guest
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
> As you note, rotors in general have a
> splitter (which you call a detangler... why? Our BMX folk would cringe if I
> called it that... after all, why use a term that describes what it actually
> does?). Or am I further removed from that scene than I thought, and "rotor"
> isn't used anymore?


Empire BMX (a mail-order house located here in Austin) and Dan's
Competition (of Indiana) both use the term "detangler" to refer to the
whole apparatus, if they are not using somebody's trade name. "Rotor"
was the model name for the detangler made by ACS. It looked nicer
than the "Gyro" made by Odyssey, but it didn't sell as well. The only
one of the two names I personally have heard used in the generic sense
is "gyro".

Chalo
 
N

Nate Knutson

Guest
On Aug 20, 12:19 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> > Yes, it has a splitter, the same type of setup that all the millions
> > of bikes with detanglers have for their rear brakes, other than higher-
> > end/customized ones with systems like an Odyssey modulever.

>
> I meant that it might have had a splitter of the type that allows the use of
> one brake lever for two brakes. As you note, rotors in general have a
> splitter (which you call a detangler... why? Our BMX folk would cringe if I
> called it that... after all, why use a term that describes what it actually
> does?). Or am I further removed from that scene than I thought, and "rotor"
> isn't used anymore?


I know what you mean. What I've been saying is that the "one lever on
2 brakes" thing isn't something that actually exists in BMX, other
than maybe the way it's sometimes used for folks with one working
hand, which I believe uses a different type of splitter even.

I use the term detangler because "rotor," as Chalo said, is a model
name and is also what brake discs are called, plus detanglers are
never popularly called "rotors" in my area. "Gyro" is what everyone
does call them, but that also has the possibility for confusion
because all of Odyssey's detanglers have "Gyro" in the model name, so
it's kinda the same situation as "v-brakes." So I use "detangler"
because it's the most accurate thing. I don't, however, use "linear
pull brakes," because it's too much to bother with in passing.
 
C

* * Chas

Guest
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> >
> > <SNIP!>
> >
> > Check the brake levers, they're probably a resin/plastic material

which
> > will be bending and reducing the amount of force applied to the

brakes.
> >
> > I'd also check the material of the sidepulls I've seen some on kids

bike
> > and cheapo MTBs made out of pressed metal which is a poor material for
> > anything except roofing flash.

>
>
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> Both the levers and sidepulls are cast. Not high end by any means, but
> not bargain store grade. Made by Rush? Not familiar, but don't seem
> like complete garbage.
>
> That's part of why I'm so confused. I'm not a small guy and I'm
> worried I'm gonna break the lever before the bike stops. I really have
> to crush it to stop.
>


You should be able to get a dual pivot front brake by Tektro and others
for not too much money. This will give him good stopping power with much
more control.

Chas.