Simoni Challenges Armstrong

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Tom Paterson, Jun 2, 2003.

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  1. Tom Paterson

    Tom Paterson Guest

    From: <http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=reu-girosimoni&prov=reuters&type=lgns>

    Quoth Simoni: <"I'm a good climber and I'll try to cause Armstrong some problems in the mountains.

    "In the four Tours Armstrong has won, he's always had an easy ride to Paris because he's never faced
    real climbers.

    "The riders who have finished on the podium such as Beloki, Ullrich and Moreau are all riders who
    are good in time trials but they are much weaker than Armstrong in the mountains.

    "If we can get him in a trap, perhaps we can make him panic and then who knows what might happen.>

    Um, "bring it on, let's have a bike race". May the best man win. --Tom Paterson
     
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  2. Bart

    Bart Guest

    "Tom Paterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > Um, "bring it on, let's have a bike race". May the best man win. --Tom
    Paterson

    "Maybe Simoni can win a stage, if LANCE looks the other side" -- Eddy Merckx
     
  3. Davide Tosi

    Davide Tosi Guest

    "Bart" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >"Tom Paterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> Um, "bring it on, let's have a bike race". May the best man win. --Tom
    >Paterson
    >
    >"Maybe Simoni can win a stage, if LANCE looks the other side" -- Eddy Merckx

    Considering the high probablities that Hamilton may crash on a Pyrenées downhill, Simoni has good
    chances of ending up 2nd at 7-8' behind Lance
     
  4. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Davide Tosi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Bart" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >"Tom Paterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >> Um, "bring it on, let's have a bike race". May the best man
    win. --Tom
    > >Paterson
    > >
    > >"Maybe Simoni can win a stage, if LANCE looks the other side" -- Eddy Merckx
    >
    > Considering the high probablities that Hamilton may crash on a
    Pyrenées
    > downhill, Simoni has good chances of ending up 2nd at 7-8' behind
    Lance

    I don't think you're going to see Hamilton crashing anymore. I do think that we're going to see
    Simoni being burned off on the flats before the climbs and then we'll hear him sniveling about how
    he is having a bad day.

    I like Simoni but he sure has a big mouth.
     
  5. "Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Tom Paterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > Um, "bring it on, let's have a bike race". May the best man win. --Tom
    > Paterson

    Some factors to consider:

    Armstrong:Since Lance is the defending champion he has a big advantage. On the otherhand it's hard
    to get a definitive picture of Lance's form until he enters the Dauphiné Liberé. Lance is also one
    of the most disciplined riders that the sport has known.

    Simoni:As for Simoni, I doubt that his team can win on their own. If Simoni is to challenge Lance
    then he will have to gang up with some of the Italians and other riders and attack Lance in the
    mountains. One big factor is this year is that neither Garzelli or Simoni was in last years tour.

    Ullrich:As for Ullrich I think he will see how good he is and mainly stick to winning some stages.

    In the end however I think that Lance will most likely win this tdf. Lances will challenge probably
    come next year.

    >
    > "Maybe Simoni can win a stage, if LANCE looks the other side" -- Eddy Merckx
     
  6. "Heinz Getzler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > "Tom Paterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > Um, "bring it on, let's have a bike race". May the best man win. --Tom
    > > Paterson
    >
    > Some factors to consider:
    >
    > Armstrong:Since Lance is the defending champion he has a big advantage. On the otherhand it's hard
    > to get a definitive picture of Lance's form until he enters the Dauphiné Liberé. Lance is also one
    > of the most disciplined riders that the sport has known.
    >
    > Simoni:As for Simoni, I doubt that his team can win on their own. If Simoni is to challenge Lance
    > then he will have to gang up with some of the Italians and other riders and attack Lance in the
    > mountains. One big factor is this year is that neither Garzelli or Simoni was in last years tour.
    >
    > Ullrich:As for Ullrich I think he will see how good he is and mainly stick to winning some stages.
    >
    > In the end however I think that Lance will most likely win this tdf. Lances will challenge
    > probably come next year.
    >
    > >
    > > "Maybe Simoni can win a stage, if LANCE looks the other side" -- Eddy Merckx

    Simoni challenges Lance to the Giro.......the Giro means nothing to Lance.....so why would he even
    care. Lance will laugh all the way to the bank........what a good boy!
     
  7. "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > I like Simoni, too. I like his confidence, and I hope what he says is
    true. I
    > > am tired of the "blue train" escorting armstrong halfway up the last
    mountain
    > > of a stage. Let's have a bike race between men, and see what happens.
    >
    > If you ever get a chance to see Leth's masterpiece "Stars and Watercarriers" pay special attention
    > to the "Road of Pain" segment. LANCE's blue train strategy is the classic technique to destroy
    > your opponents in the mountains. Indurain used it, and Leth documents how Merckx used it to
    > decimate the competition in the Giro.
    >
    > I think people forget the strength of the teams that Banesto brought to the Tour in support of
    > Indurain. When he finally failed in 1996 it was not just chance that that was also their weakest
    > squad after the Amaya guys left. In 1996 he was left alone time after time at critical points of
    > the race, something that never happened when Perico was riding as his lieutenant.
    >
    > In my view that is where Simoni is talking out of his ass. He does not have the team to
    > challenge LANCE,

    Simoni's problem will be his time trialing.

    He'll fall behind in the time trials, then he will be obliged to create separation in the mountains.
    He'll have to ride LANCE off his wheel. good luck, he'll need it.
     
  8. "Just a Cyclist" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Heinz Getzler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > "Tom Paterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > Um, "bring it on, let's have a bike race". May the best man win. --Tom
    > > > Paterson
    > >
    > > Some factors to consider:
    > >
    > > Armstrong:Since Lance is the defending champion he has a big advantage. On the otherhand it's
    > > hard to get a definitive picture of Lance's form until he enters the Dauphiné Liberé. Lance is
    > > also one of the most disciplined riders that the sport has known.
    > >
    > > Simoni:As for Simoni, I doubt that his team can win on their own. If Simoni is to challenge
    > > Lance then he will have to gang up with some of the Italians and other riders and attack Lance
    > > in the mountains. One big factor is this year is that neither Garzelli or Simoni was in last
    > > years tour.
    > >
    > > Ullrich:As for Ullrich I think he will see how good he is and mainly stick to winning some
    > > stages.
    > >
    > > In the end however I think that Lance will most likely win this tdf. Lances will challenge
    > > probably come next year.
    > >
    > > >
    > > > "Maybe Simoni can win a stage, if LANCE looks the other side" -- Eddy Merckx
    >
    > Simoni challenges Lance to the Giro.......the Giro means nothing to Lance.....so why would he
    > even care.
    I was referring to Simoni challenging Lance in the tdf..
    > Lance will laugh all the way to the bank........what a good boy!
     
  9. Kyle Legate

    Kyle Legate Guest

    Heinz Getzler wrote:
    >
    > Some factors to consider:
    >
    > Armstrong:Since Lance is the defending champion he has a big advantage.
    >
    I fail to see what advantage being a defending champion provides anyone, considering the defending
    champion is the most heavily marked man in the race.
     
  10. "Kyle Legate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Heinz Getzler wrote:
    > >
    > > Some factors to consider:
    > >
    > > Armstrong:Since Lance is the defending champion he has a big advantage.
    > >
    > I fail to see what advantage being a defending champion provides anyone, considering the defending
    > champion is the most heavily marked man in the race.
    There are some big advantages: First and foremost confidence. The psychological advantage is almost
    incalculable for a defending champion. Lance knows what it takes to win a tdf. Experience is also a
    big plus. Psychological warfare is also a big plus as well. There is a lot of mind games in the TDF
    and it gives the Lance another big plus.
     
  11. Dan

    Dan Guest

    Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > If you ever get a chance to see Leth's masterpiece "Stars and Watercarriers" pay special attention
    > to the "Road of Pain" segment. LANCE's blue train strategy is the classic technique to destroy
    > your opponents in the mountains. Indurain used it, and Leth documents how Merckx used it to
    > decimate the competition in the Giro.
    >

    Telekom tried (unsuccessfully) to use it one day in 2001.
     
  12. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    Dan <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >> If you ever get a chance to see Leth's masterpiece "Stars and Watercarriers" pay special
    >> attention to the "Road of Pain" segment. LANCE's blue train strategy is the classic technique to
    >> destroy your opponents in the mountains. Indurain used it, and Leth documents how Merckx used it
    >> to decimate the competition in the Giro.
    >>

    > Telekom tried (unsuccessfully) to use it one day in 2001.

    On the final climb there was a lot more blue than pink at the front. On the lower slopes it was the
    blue guys that were driving the pace. So one might presume that earlier in the race Telekom was
    writing checks that their legs couldn't cash. There is always that risk in racing.

    Bob Schwartz [email protected]
     
  13. Mark Janeba

    Mark Janeba Guest

    Heinz Getzler wrote:
    > "Kyle Legate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >>I fail to see what advantage being a defending champion provides anyone, considering the defending
    >>champion is the most heavily marked man in the race.
    >
    > There are some big advantages: First and foremost confidence. The psychological advantage is
    > almost incalculable for a defending champion. Lance knows what it takes to win a tdf. Experience
    > is also a big plus. Psychological warfare is also a big plus as well. There is a lot of mind games
    > in the TDF and it gives the Lance another big plus.

    Absolutely right. Armstrong is very well versed in effective intimidation of his opponents. In
    simpler language, he knows how to put the fear of Lance into them. *Every* year he wins (or nearly
    so - Hautacam 2000) the first big mountain stage and leaves his opponents saying things like "we are
    racing for second place". Watch the tapes, many actually say that.

    Showing no signs of weakness since 2000 on La Plagne (sp?), he's already built up the "fear factor"
    in his opponents. That makes it much harder for them psychologically.

    Regards,
    --
    Mark Janeba remove antispam phrase in address to reply
     
  14. Dan

    Dan Guest

    Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Dan <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > >> If you ever get a chance to see Leth's masterpiece "Stars and Watercarriers" pay special
    > >> attention to the "Road of Pain" segment. LANCE's blue train strategy is the classic technique
    > >> to destroy your opponents in the mountains. Indurain used it, and Leth documents how Merckx
    > >> used it to decimate the competition in the Giro.
    > >>
    >
    > > Telekom tried (unsuccessfully) to use it one day in 2001.
    >
    > On the final climb there was a lot more blue than pink at the front. On the lower slopes it was
    > the blue guys that were driving the pace. So one might presume that earlier in the race Telekom
    > was writing checks that their legs couldn't cash. There is always that risk in racing.
    >
    > Bob Schwartz [email protected]

    What a great tour.
     
  15. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    [email protected] (Dan) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > > If you ever get a chance to see Leth's masterpiece "Stars and Watercarriers" pay special
    > > attention to the "Road of Pain" segment. LANCE's blue train strategy is the classic technique to
    > > destroy your opponents in the mountains. Indurain used it, and Leth documents how Merckx used it
    > > to decimate the competition in the Giro.
    > >
    >
    > Telekom tried (unsuccessfully) to use it one day in 2001.

    The lesson of that day is; a great champion can win with or without a strong team and use his
    opponents team in his favor. The strongest always wins.
     
  16. Robert Chung

    Robert Chung Guest

    "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > The strongest always wins.

    The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong--but that is the way to bet.
     
  17. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    Status as defending champion is a disadvantage. The performance strengths that allowed him to win 4
    times are what gives him the advantage.

    "Heinz Getzler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Kyle Legate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Heinz Getzler wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Some factors to consider:
    > > >
    > > > Armstrong:Since Lance is the defending champion he has a big advantage.
    > > >
    > > I fail to see what advantage being a defending champion provides anyone, considering the
    > > defending champion is the most heavily marked man in the race.
    > There are some big advantages: First and foremost confidence. The psychological advantage is
    > almost incalculable for a defending champion. Lance knows what it takes to win a tdf. Experience
    > is also a big plus. Psychological warfare is also a big plus as well. There is a lot of mind games
    > in the TDF and it gives the Lance another big plus.
     
  18. [email protected] (Heinz Getzler) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > "Tom Paterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > Um, "bring it on, let's have a bike race". May the best man win. --Tom
    > > Paterson
    >
    > Some factors to consider:
    >
    > Armstrong:Since Lance is the defending champion he has a big advantage.
    USPS team: With the addition of Beltran USPS will have a team that can defend against any attacks in
    the mountains. I really don't think there is any team that can challenge Lance in the mountains with
    his team. Like I said before Lances opponents only chance is to work together and to attack Lance.

    > On the otherhand it's hard to get a definitive picture of Lance's form until he enters the
    > Dauphiné Liberé. Lance is also one of the most disciplined riders that the sport has known.
    >
    > Simoni:As for Simoni, I doubt that his team can win on their own. If Simoni is to challenge Lance
    > then he will have to gang up with some of the Italians and other riders and attack Lance in the
    > mountains. One big factor is this year is that neither Garzelli or Simoni was in last years tour.
    >
    > Ullrich:As for Ullrich I think he will see how good he is and mainly stick to winning some stages.
    >
    > In the end however I think that Lance will most likely win this tdf. Lances will challenge
    > probably come next year.
    >
    > >
    > > "Maybe Simoni can win a stage, if LANCE looks the other side" -- Eddy Merckx
     
  19. "Heinz Getzler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > getzle[email protected] (Heinz Getzler) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > "Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > "Tom Paterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > Um, "bring it on, let's have a bike race". May the best man
    win. --Tom
    > > > Paterson
    > >
    > > Some factors to consider:
    > >
    > > Armstrong:Since Lance is the defending champion he has a big advantage.
    > USPS team: With the addition of Beltran USPS will have a team that can defend against any attacks
    > in the mountains. I really don't think there is any team that can challenge Lance in the
    > mountains with his team. Like I said before Lances opponents only chance is to work together and
    > to attack Lance.

    I predict It won't work out that way (cooperation vs. LANCE).

    They'll ride against each other, trying to protect their minor placings. The TdF is such a big deal
    that the directors will not risk losing GC spots reaching for the pie-in-the-sky, especially trying
    to beat their head against the wall in the strong support team that you mention.

    Even ONCE wouldn't attack, trying to set up a teamate, competing teams will be infinitely less
    likely to cooperate.
     
  20. Heinz Getzler <[email protected]> wrote:
    > [email protected] (Heinz Getzler) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Some factors to consider:
    > >
    > > Armstrong:Since Lance is the defending champion he has a big advantage.
    >
    > USPS team: With the addition of Beltran USPS will have a team that can defend against any attacks
    > in the mountains. I really don't think there is any team that can challenge Lance in the
    > mountains with his team. Like I said before Lances opponents only chance is to work together and
    > to attack Lance.

    We shouln't emphasize the importance of the teams too much either. One strong rider can do a lot of
    damage, however 'protected' the other team leaders may be. We all know how it looks in the end of
    the most difficult mountain stages. Then it's man against man. Unless you have Heras at your side.
    :) (ONCE-Eroski also had three strong riders last year.)

    --
    «Wänn i de Schwitz s Volk redet, händ d Politikär ruhig sii.»
     
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