Simple green chain cleaner?????

[Weisse Luft]

Simple Green is a detergent solution with only mild grease cutting properties at room temperatures.

Simple Green is a blend of water, surfactant (surface-active) agents, wetting agents, emulsifiers, color and scent. Surfactant agents lift grease and oil up off of the surface, wetting agents help Simple Green penetrate soils, and emulsifiers put those soils into solution so that they can be washed away.

While such a solution will remove grease from surfaces like fabric, its speed of action on thicker deposits is very sluggish. Removing wax from chains, rings and cogs would take much longer. The solvent used in White Lightning is hexane, a very light petroleum solvent.

There is another concern, that being plated chains and the high pH of the undiluted solution. It can damage some platings and may damage hardened steels used in some chain pins. Shimano specifically calls for a "neutral solvent". A pH of 9.5 is NOT a neutral solvent.

If you use an oil type chain lube, SG may be effective, especially if there is considerable dirt on the chain. Dirt decreases the hydrophobic nature of oils, allowing detergents to lift the oil+dirt. But if you use synthetic oils, good luck.

 

[Terry Morse]

Retro Bob wrote:

> What bugs me is people like SG
> claiming (inferring) that their product is environmentally friendly
> when it is really not.

Citations, please. Simple Green's claims are plainly stated on their
web site. They don't imply (not infer) anything, they state it
clearly. Where is your clear statement to the contrary, and what is
your source?
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

 

[Kenny Lee]

[email protected] wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know if the chain cleaner liquid used in various chain cleaner
> machines is Simple Green?
>
> Has anyone tried Simple Green for this? Did it melt your plastic chain
> cleaner, or did it work well?
>
> Did you dillute the Simple Green?
>
> I'm curious about Simple Green because it would be a less expensive chain
> cleaner.
>
> Thanks,
>
> B

http://consumer.simplegreen.com/cons_faqs.php

Kenny

 

[Werehatrack]

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:04:36 -0600, [email protected] wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Does anyone know if the chain cleaner liquid used in various chain cleaner
>machines is Simple Green?

TTBOMK, none of the chain cleaners are supplied with that product as
their active agent. There are numerous compounds that will work well.

>Has anyone tried Simple Green for this? Did it melt your plastic chain
>cleaner, or did it work well?

Simple Green has worked middling well as a degreaser in a few usages
in my shop, but I have found that it does not perform as well or as
economically as the purple degreaser product sold for $5 per gallon at
Autozone. Neither compound has damaged any plastics that I've used it
with. I have used the Autozone degreaser to clean oil sludge and
varnish from automotive engine parts by merely soaking them in a
bucket of it. Simple Green did very little sludge removal in the same
conditions, and didn't touch the varnish at all.

>I'm curious about Simple Green because it would be a less expensive chain
>cleaner.

There are others that are even cheaper, as noted above.

If using a butyl-based degreaser such as the Autozone item mentioned,
I would recommend that you wear protective gloves; it's hard on skin,
and will leave your hands completely de-oiled and dry. Most rubber
gloves are adequate for use with it. As with any chemical, follow the
package directions for safety.
--
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[Werehatrack]

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:48:28 GMT, Paul Kopit
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:23:59 +1100, Weisse Luft
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Simple Green is more of a detergent solution than a solvent. While it
>>will emulsify oil, its effectiveness on grease and wax is limited,
>>leading to the false belief lubricants like White Lightning, when
>>applied to an installed chain, leave a permanent buildup on cogs,
>>jockey wheels and chainrings.
>
>Simple Green is made of citrus terpenes. They are excellent solvents
>for organic materials and decent water solubility. Downside is that
>they are not volatile and removing the solvent completely from the
>part is is not easy. The solvent is usually not reused or the
>washings collected. I really don't understand why people use them on
>bicycles.

Simple Green has more than one cleaning compound in its line. There
is a citrus-based degreasing compound, but their original product
isn't citrus-based, and my experience with the origianl product was
(and is) that it is a poor degreaser. Their citrus-based product is a
much better degreaser, but much more expensive in this area than a
number of other alternatives.


--
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[Werehatrack]

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:02:23 GMT, Werehatrack
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:48:28 GMT, Paul Kopit
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:23:59 +1100, Weisse Luft
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Simple Green is more of a detergent solution than a solvent. While it
>>>will emulsify oil, its effectiveness on grease and wax is limited,
>>>leading to the false belief lubricants like White Lightning, when
>>>applied to an installed chain, leave a permanent buildup on cogs,
>>>jockey wheels and chainrings.
>>
>>Simple Green is made of citrus terpenes. They are excellent solvents
>>for organic materials and decent water solubility. Downside is that
>>they are not volatile and removing the solvent completely from the
>>part is is not easy. The solvent is usually not reused or the
>>washings collected. I really don't understand why people use them on
>>bicycles.
>
>Simple Green has more than one cleaning compound in its line. There
>is a citrus-based degreasing compound,

Correction; apparently they have stopped producing any citrus-based
products; I recall having had a sample of one at one point, but I
never bought any due to the excessive cost and the lack of any
performance advantage over the inexpensive products I had been using.

> but their original product
>isn't citrus-based, and my experience with the original product was
>(and is) that it is a poor degreaser.

And I stand by that statement, based on my own experience using it
(with poor results) in both automotive repair and screen printing.

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[Weisse Luft]

Ha! They probably found out citrus terpenes (limonenes) have a positive on the Ames test. This test, pioneered by Dr. Bruce Ames, gives rapid screening on POSSIBLE carcinogens. Dr. Ames later recanted on the tests accuracy, especially after testing orange peel expressed terpenes only to discover this too was a possible carcinogen.

Since mechanical orange juice machines cannot remove 100% of the terpenes from orange juice, a positive on this test implies orange juice can cause cancer.

 

[Werehatrack]

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:47:13 +1100, Weisse Luft
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Ha! They probably found out citrus terpenes (limonenes) have a positive
>on the Ames test. This test, pioneered by Dr. Bruce Ames, gives rapid
>screening on POSSIBLE carcinogens. Dr. Ames later recanted on the
>tests accuracy, especially after testing orange peel expressed terpenes
>only to discover this too was a possible carcinogen.
>
>Since mechanical orange juice machines cannot remove 100% of the
>terpenes from orange juice, a positive on this test implies orange
>juice can cause cancer.

I am minded of a test that was discarded in which the results seemed
to imply that shaving a small patch on the backs of rats and applying
a drop of distilled water to the skin daily was also carcinogenic in
that strain of cancer-prone rat.

Laboratory rats cause cancer. That's the real conclusion that's
supported by the evidence.
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[Bruce Rideout]

Jim Smith <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Retro Bob <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:16:14 GMT, "Jim Flom" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Hadn't heard of the need for something stronger with dry lubes like WL,
> > >although I don't use dry lubes anyway. While paint thinner is probably
> > >going to be stronger, on factor the OP may care about is that Simple Green
> > >is greener, i.e., environmentally friendlier. It's biodegradable, and
> > >eaiser on the skin too.
> >
> > Actually, simple green is not biodegrable. It has some nasties
> > in it. They just made it green so you'd think it was environmentally
> > friendly. There was quite a discussion of this a while back in
> > another forum including some responses from VP's with the Simple
> > folks.
> >
>
> According to the official tests, as reported in the MSDS:
>
> http://www.simplegreen.com/pdfs/04_msds_simple_green.pdf
>
> simple green is indeed biodegradeable. From the MSDS:
>
> "Simple Green is readily decomposed by naturally occurring
> microorganisms... Per OECD Closed Bottle Test, Simple Green meets
> OECD and EPA reccomendations for ready biodegradability."
>

<Snipped a bit>

Even if Simple Green is biodegradable, I hope everyone realizes that
once it has been used to de-grease a chain it should be disposed of as
other toxic wastes would be and not put down a drain.

Bruce

 

[Terry Morse]

Bruce Rideout wrote:

> Even if Simple Green is biodegradable, I hope everyone realizes that
> once it has been used to de-grease a chain it should be disposed of as
> other toxic wastes would be and not put down a drain.

Not down a storm drain, for sure. But some types of oily water may
be put into a sewer, depending on local regulations. As with just
about every other issue, there's a Simple Green item that discusses
this:

http://tinyurl.com/4k3rg
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

Weisse Luft wrote:
> Ha! They probably found out citrus terpenes (limonenes) have a
> positive on the Ames test. This test, pioneered by Dr. Bruce Ames,
> gives rapid screening on POSSIBLE carcinogens. Dr. Ames later
> recanted on the tests accuracy, especially after testing orange peel
> expressed terpenes only to discover this too was a possible
> carcinogen.
>
> Since mechanical orange juice machines cannot remove 100% of the
> terpenes from orange juice, a positive on this test implies orange
> juice can cause cancer.

We'd better not breathe, either! We all know what comes out of tailpipes,
even if it is measured in parts per gajillion.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[Werehatrack]

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:33:22 GMT, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Weisse Luft wrote:
>> Ha! They probably found out citrus terpenes (limonenes) have a
>> positive on the Ames test. This test, pioneered by Dr. Bruce Ames,
>> gives rapid screening on POSSIBLE carcinogens. Dr. Ames later
>> recanted on the tests accuracy, especially after testing orange peel
>> expressed terpenes only to discover this too was a possible
>> carcinogen.
>>
>> Since mechanical orange juice machines cannot remove 100% of the
>> terpenes from orange juice, a positive on this test implies orange
>> juice can cause cancer.
>
>We'd better not breathe, either! We all know what comes out of tailpipes,
>even if it is measured in parts per gajillion.

Yeah, and have you ever read the ingredients list for a cow? Of
course, IIRC, the one for an ear of corn is way scarier these days.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
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[Weisse Luft]

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:33:22 GMT, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Weisse Luft wrote:
>> Ha! They probably found out citrus terpenes (limonenes) have a
>> positive on the Ames test. This test, pioneered by Dr. Bruce Ames,
>> gives rapid screening on POSSIBLE carcinogens. Dr. Ames later
>> recanted on the tests accuracy, especially after testing orange peel
>> expressed terpenes only to discover this too was a possible
>> carcinogen.
>>
>> Since mechanical orange juice machines cannot remove 100% of the
>> terpenes from orange juice, a positive on this test implies orange
>> juice can cause cancer.
>
>We'd better not breathe, either! We all know what comes out of tailpipes,
>even if it is measured in parts per gajillion.

Yeah, and have you ever read the ingredients list for a cow? Of
course, IIRC, the one for an ear of corn is way scarier these days.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

In order of precedence....

Hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, carbon, calcium.... Same as it ever was

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

Weisse Luft wrote:
> Werehatrack Wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:33:22 GMT, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Weisse Luft wrote:
>>>> Ha! They probably found out citrus terpenes (limonenes) have a
>>>> positive on the Ames test. This test, pioneered by Dr. Bruce Ames,
>>>> gives rapid screening on POSSIBLE carcinogens. Dr. Ames later
>>>> recanted on the tests accuracy, especially after testing orange
>>>> peel expressed terpenes only to discover this too was a possible
>>>> carcinogen.
>>>>
>>>> Since mechanical orange juice machines cannot remove 100% of the
>>>> terpenes from orange juice, a positive on this test implies orange
>>>> juice can cause cancer.
>>>
>>> We'd better not breathe, either! We all know what comes out of
>>> tailpipes, even if it is measured in parts per gajillion.
>>
>> Yeah, and have you ever read the ingredients list for a cow? Of
>> course, IIRC, the one for an ear of corn is way scarier these days.
>> --
>> Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
>> Some gardening required to reply via email.
>> Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
>
> In order of precedence....
>
> Hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, carbon, calcium.... Same as it ever was

Yeah and some of those are free radicals! Free radicals completely F you
up. We should all be on dialysis machines to get rid of these too.
Portable ones so we will not have as many free radicals. Plus one of those
plastic bubble things with a UV coating so we won't be exposed to light rays
from the sun or the air, which has oxygen, also a known people-killer.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training