Singlespeed - time to abandon my chain tensioner?



M

Mathias

Guest
Hi!

I am a singlespeed convert since two years now. I have converted two
normal MTBs to singlespeed using the Singleator from Surly (the first
bike was stolen so I had to convert, or really build a new one from
scratch, using a cheap MTB-frame with vertical drop-outs).

Using a chain tensioner like the one I have works quite well, although
I have some issues with it:

It is there; a thing that gets dirty, that can be in the way, that adds
some weight to my bike etc. Also, it generates noise and I have to
grease it.

Now, as I am very satisfied using a singlespeed bike now, I am prepared
to "upgrade" to other solutions, maybe using that eccentric hub or an
eccentric bottom bracket, or maybe even buying a singlespeed frame with
horizontal drop-outs (if I can get hold of one here in Sweden, that
is). But, I have doubts about it:

For example, using an eccentric bottom bracket; I have read that it
needs adjustment now and then, and using horizontal drop-outs require
chain tensioning once in a while. All things that I need not do right
now. I'm not saying that those are big problems, but as it is now I
have a quite simple bike maintenance, washing it and greasing it and
fixing with my brakes now and then.

What are other peoples experiences in this area? Is it worth
"upgrading" from using a chain tensioner?

/Mathias
 
Mathias wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I am a singlespeed convert since two years now. I have converted two
> normal MTBs to singlespeed using the Singleator from Surly (the first
> bike was stolen so I had to convert, or really build a new one from
> scratch, using a cheap MTB-frame with vertical drop-outs).
>
> Using a chain tensioner like the one I have works quite well, although
> I have some issues with it:
>
> It is there; a thing that gets dirty, that can be in the way, that adds
> some weight to my bike etc. Also, it generates noise and I have to
> grease it.
>
> Now, as I am very satisfied using a singlespeed bike now, I am prepared
> to "upgrade" to other solutions, maybe using that eccentric hub or an
> eccentric bottom bracket, or maybe even buying a singlespeed frame with
> horizontal drop-outs (if I can get hold of one here in Sweden, that
> is). But, I have doubts about it:
>
> For example, using an eccentric bottom bracket; I have read that it
> needs adjustment now and then, and using horizontal drop-outs require
> chain tensioning once in a while. All things that I need not do right
> now. I'm not saying that those are big problems, but as it is now I
> have a quite simple bike maintenance, washing it and greasing it and
> fixing with my brakes now and then.
>
> What are other peoples experiences in this area? Is it worth
> "upgrading" from using a chain tensioner?


I too considered a eccentric bottom bracket or a specific singlespeed
frame, but that limits your framechoice and indeed need some adjustment
now and then when the chain gets longer with time. Another concern was
removing the wheel (horizontal dropouts) when you have a flat. So I
decided for the Surly chain tensioner. The first setup looked like this

http://home.planet.nl/~holtm072/albums/singlespeed/

and I was unpleasently suprised with the noise the drivetrain made.
Since then I removed two links of the chain so the tensioner gets more
horizontal and I could lower the tension. Furthermore I removed the
chainguards so I could get a perfect chainline without the the chainring
(44T) hitting the frame. Since then the noise is more than acceptable.
I never ride the singlespeed off road. It's my winter/bad wether road bike.

I would say leave it as it is. A eccentric bottombracket looks ugly,
limits you framechoice and adds more weight then the Surly chaintensioner.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
 
On 23 Jan 2005 09:22:17 -0800, "Mathias" <[email protected]> may
have said:


>Now, as I am very satisfied using a singlespeed bike now, I am prepared
>to "upgrade" to other solutions, maybe using that eccentric hub or an
>eccentric bottom bracket, or maybe even buying a singlespeed frame with
>horizontal drop-outs (if I can get hold of one here in Sweden, that
>is).

Look for used three-speed bikes with the desired wheel diameter; those
will have horizontal or steeply-angled dropouts that are useful as
single-speed conversions, and should be reasonably plentiful.

> But, I have doubts about it:
>
>For example, using an eccentric bottom bracket; I have read that it
>needs adjustment now and then, and using horizontal drop-outs require
>chain tensioning once in a while. All things that I need not do right
>now. I'm not saying that those are big problems, but as it is now I
>have a quite simple bike maintenance, washing it and greasing it and
>fixing with my brakes now and then.
>
>What are other peoples experiences in this area? Is it worth
>"upgrading" from using a chain tensioner?

It is, in my opinion, entirely a matter of choice. In your case,
there is also the option (if you will be taking my suggestion above)
of finding a bike with a fully enclosed chain guard which will obviate
the need for most chain maintenance tasks. In back of the house, I
have a three-speed 27" bike whose chain has close to zero wear after
having been used for several years by someone else as a commuter bike
at a local university, and thereafter for some time by another as a
beater. The bike is at least 20 years old. I'm pretty sure that it's
still on its first chain.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
 
Sorry to take the discussion slightly off topic, but I have been
contemplating building a fixed-gear bike for a few years and I
have been wondering where one obtains drivetrain parts. I've
never seen a single-speed rear hub or a single-chainring crank in
any bike shops or catalogs. Where can I get them?

Oh, and another question -- is a single-speed rear wheel dished?

Thanks,
Greg
 
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:24:22 -0600, Greg Berchin
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Sorry to take the discussion slightly off topic, but I have been
>contemplating building a fixed-gear bike for a few years and I
>have been wondering where one obtains drivetrain parts. I've
>never seen a single-speed rear hub or a single-chainring crank in
>any bike shops or catalogs. Where can I get them?
>

Many bike shops will have parts and know how to set up a fixed speed.
But they aren't high volume parts so they probably don't put many
parts out on display. Ask what they know and what they have. When you
see someone on a fixed on the street, ask them where they got the
parts, etc.

Also, many single speed parts are simply stripped-down regular parts.
On my single, the cranks are doubles with one chainwheel and shorter
bolts; the rear hub is a freewheel hub that was redished; the rear
single freewheel is a standard Shimano 'BMX' part.

Places like this have parts

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/fixed.html

and info-

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixed/index.html



>Oh, and another question -- is a single-speed rear wheel dished?
>
>Thanks,
>Greg

If you mean off-center, this will depend on the design of the hub, the
rear frame spacing, and the desired chainline. When I converted the
freewheel hub, I had to move some spacers from one side to the other,
along with adding a spacer to move from 126mm to 130mm. When I
redished the wheel, the same spokes handled the change. When I relaced
the wheel, technically I should have used spokes with a 1mm difference
left/right, but using the same length on both sides worked out fine.
 
On 23 Jan 2005 09:22:17 -0800, "Mathias" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Hi!
>
>I am a singlespeed convert since two years now. I have converted two
>normal MTBs to singlespeed using the Singleator from Surly (the first
>bike was stolen so I had to convert, or really build a new one from
>scratch, using a cheap MTB-frame with vertical drop-outs).
>
>Using a chain tensioner like the one I have works quite well, although
>I have some issues with it:
>
>It is there; a thing that gets dirty, that can be in the way, that adds
>some weight to my bike etc. Also, it generates noise and I have to
>grease it.
>
>Now, as I am very satisfied using a singlespeed bike now, I am prepared
>to "upgrade" to other solutions, maybe using that eccentric hub or an
>eccentric bottom bracket, or maybe even buying a singlespeed frame with
>horizontal drop-outs (if I can get hold of one here in Sweden, that
>is). But, I have doubts about it:
>
>For example, using an eccentric bottom bracket; I have read that it
>needs adjustment now and then, and using horizontal drop-outs require
>chain tensioning once in a while. All things that I need not do right
>now. I'm not saying that those are big problems, but as it is now I
>have a quite simple bike maintenance, washing it and greasing it and
>fixing with my brakes now and then.
>
>What are other peoples experiences in this area? Is it worth
>"upgrading" from using a chain tensioner?
>
>/Mathias

I'll throw my 'chain tensioner' method out, but realize that this
could be dangerous-

I took a Dremel grinder to my vertical dropouts and created some
fore-aft movement. I grind metal at work all the time, and can use a
Dremel pretty precisely, so it didn't worry me to do this myself.

Well, quick, cheap, low-maintenance vertical-to-horizontal conversion.
Use at your own risk.
 
Per Mathias:
>What are other peoples experiences in this area? Is it worth
>"upgrading" from using a chain tensioner?

Eccentric BB's are certainly elegant - but the problem I see with them is that
they eat into fore-aft saddle adjustment.

I've got a hardtail that uses Roholoff's adjustable rear dropouts. Plenty
adjustment, no complaints.
--
PeteCresswell
 
Mathias wrote:

> I am a singlespeed convert since two years now. I have converted two
> normal MTBs to singlespeed using the Singleator from Surly (the first
> bike was stolen so I had to convert, or really build a new one from
> scratch, using a cheap MTB-frame with vertical drop-outs).
>
> Using a chain tensioner like the one I have works quite well,

You say that now, but wait 'til you see/feel how much nicer it is
without it!

Now, as I am very satisfied using a singlespeed bike now, I am prepared
> to "upgrade" to other solutions, maybe using that eccentric hub or an
> eccentric bottom bracket, or maybe even buying a singlespeed frame with
> horizontal drop-outs (if I can get hold of one here in Sweden, that
> is). But, I have doubts about it:

The simplest and least expensive of thes options is the eccentric hub.
I have one of these myself, they work great, and are much easier to
adjust than an eccentric bottom bracket. They also permit using
different sized sprockets/freewheels on each size, offering a way to
select different gears for different conditions.

See: http://harriscyclery.com/white-hubs

Sheldon "ENO" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------+
| Men and nations behave wisely once they |
| have exhausted all the other alternatives. |
| -- Abba Eban |
+-------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
Greg Berchin wrote:
> Sorry to take the discussion slightly off topic, but I have been
> contemplating building a fixed-gear bike for a few years and I
> have been wondering where one obtains drivetrain parts. I've
> never seen a single-speed rear hub or a single-chainring crank in
> any bike shops or catalogs. Where can I get them?
>
> Oh, and another question -- is a single-speed rear wheel dished?
>

I think a few of these fine people could give you tips on building a
singlespeed or fixed-gear bike:
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/
and Sheldon's site is certainly a swell place to shop.

Jeff
 
Mathias at [email protected] wrote on 1/23/05 9:22 AM:
> Using a chain tensioner like the one I have works quite well, although
> I have some issues with it:
>
> It is there; a thing that gets dirty, that can be in the way, that adds
> some weight to my bike etc. Also, it generates noise and I have to
> grease it.

I have one of the first versions of the Surly. The instructions recommended
changing the spring so that it pulled "up" on hardtails, so I did that.
Almost every other one I've seen on the trail was left alone - tensioning
down. I like the way mine works - it gets a good chain wrap on the cog and
I have almost no derailment of the chain.

Noise can probably be solved by paying serious attention to the chainline -
the tensioner _used_ to have an adjustment to move it right and left. That
will make a difference. Of course, if your chainline is off, there will be
noise in the drivetrain without a tensioner.

Never greased mine - I clean it with the rest of the drivetrain, but it has
needed almost no maintenence.

photos here:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cyclofiend/bikes/BridgestoneSS.htm

>
> Now, as I am very satisfied using a singlespeed bike now, I am prepared
> to "upgrade" to other solutions, maybe using that eccentric hub or an
> eccentric bottom bracket, or maybe even buying a singlespeed frame with
> horizontal drop-outs (if I can get hold of one here in Sweden, that
> is). But, I have doubts about it:

I'm waiting until the rear wheel dies, and then I'll probably rebuild it
with an ENO from White Brothers courtesy of Sheldon's site:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/white-hubs.html

They seem exceedingly well executed, and less problematic than an eccentric
BB.


>
> For example, using an eccentric bottom bracket; I have read that it
> needs adjustment now and then, and using horizontal drop-outs require
> chain tensioning once in a while. All things that I need not do right
> now. I'm not saying that those are big problems, but as it is now I
> have a quite simple bike maintenance, washing it and greasing it and
> fixing with my brakes now and then.

You could have a competent framebuilder install track fork ends. Tensioning
the wheel is pretty simple stuff. The only thing you have to watch is where
the brake pads hit after retensioning.

Hope that helps,

-- Jim

--

CycloFiend

to reply directly, replace the dashes to create the name above
 
Per Sheldon Brown:
>The simplest and least expensive of thes options is the eccentric hub.
>I have one of these myself, they work great, and are much easier to
>adjust than an eccentric bottom bracket.

I have the White eccentric hub and don't hold it in that high regard - although
it *is* a beautiful thing to look at and seems like the only game in town if
somebody wants a fixie on an existing frame.

Maybe it's just my technique, but I find adjustment to be a nuisance and not all
that permanent - i.e. it sometimes gets out of adjustment with riding.

There's also a brake adjustment factor, since the rim goes up/down depending on
the chain length. Remove the wheel to fix a flat or flip it over for
fixie/freewheel swap and you'd better get it re-adjusted just *so* or the brakes
will be out of alignment.
--
PeteCresswell
 
Dan Daniel wrote:

> I took a Dremel grinder to my vertical dropouts and created some
> fore-aft movement. I grind metal at work all the time, and can use a
> Dremel pretty precisely, so it didn't worry me to do this myself.

I also ground away a bit of my commuter's vertical dropouts. I tried a
Dremel first, but it was slow going. I ended up using a file, which
was a lot faster. I also installed a shortened QR axle that doesn't
protrude into the dropouts (got that idea from Sheldon Brown's
website). This gives me enough room to run a flip flop for 42-16 and
42-18 with good chain tension both ways. I have a rack on the bike and
sometimes carry 20 pounds on it; I haven't bent or broken my Shimano
quick release in the year or so that I've been riding the bike like
this. I have had problems with the hub bearings, but I'm not sure why
(Surly hub).

-Vee
 
"Vee" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> I have had problems
> with the hub bearings, but I'm not sure why (Surly hub).
>
Me too. I have toasted 2 of them with a perfect chainline and they
spewed out all sorts of tiny bearings. Doesn't anyone make a fixie hub
with decent cup and cone any more.
 
Mathias wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I am a singlespeed convert since two years now. I have converted two
> normal MTBs to singlespeed using the Singleator from Surly (the first
> bike was stolen so I had to convert, or really build a new one from
> scratch, using a cheap MTB-frame with vertical drop-outs).
>
> Using a chain tensioner like the one I have works quite well, although
> I have some issues with it:
>
> It is there; a thing that gets dirty, that can be in the way, that adds
> some weight to my bike etc. Also, it generates noise and I have to
> grease it.
>
> Now, as I am very satisfied using a singlespeed bike now, I am prepared
> to "upgrade" to other solutions, maybe using that eccentric hub or an
> eccentric bottom bracket, or maybe even buying a singlespeed frame with
> horizontal drop-outs (if I can get hold of one here in Sweden, that
> is). But, I have doubts about it:
>
> For example, using an eccentric bottom bracket; I have read that it
> needs adjustment now and then, and using horizontal drop-outs require
> chain tensioning once in a while. All things that I need not do right
> now. I'm not saying that those are big problems, but as it is now I
> have a quite simple bike maintenance, washing it and greasing it and
> fixing with my brakes now and then.
>
> What are other peoples experiences in this area? Is it worth
> "upgrading" from using a chain tensioner?


Frame upgrade is cheap and simple compared to an eccentric:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/trakends.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
Greg Berchin wrote:
> Sorry to take the discussion slightly off topic, but I have been
> contemplating building a fixed-gear bike for a few years and I
> have been wondering where one obtains drivetrain parts. I've
> never seen a single-speed rear hub or a single-chainring crank in
> any bike shops or catalogs. Where can I get them?
>
> Oh, and another question -- is a single-speed rear wheel dished?

Here are some:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/sensible.html

dish- usually not. Home made efforts sometimes are.

What's important is that the rim be centered over the
locknuts. Given that, an axle spacing which ends with even
tension left and right is desirable.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
> "Vee" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>>I have had problems
>>with the hub bearings, but I'm not sure why (Surly hub).

Mike Latondresse wrote:
> Me too. I have toasted 2 of them with a perfect chainline and they
> spewed out all sorts of tiny bearings. Doesn't anyone make a fixie hub
> with decent cup and cone any more.

Yes, many. Including Campagnolo Record, not all that
expensive considering it should last the rest of your life
with reasonable care.

There are a dozen hubs between the low-end noname house
brand you mention and Campagnolo's premium product.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:51:34 -0600, A Muzi wrote:

> Mike Latondresse wrote:
>> Me too. I have toasted 2 of them with a perfect chainline and they
>> spewed out all sorts of tiny bearings. Doesn't anyone make a fixie hub
>> with decent cup and cone any more.
>
> Yes, many. Including Campagnolo Record, not all that
> expensive considering it should last the rest of your life
> with reasonable care.

Well, I don't know about that. Mine is only 40 years old now, so I don't
know whether it will last a lifetime or not.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Become MicroSoft-free forever. Ask me how.
_`\(,_ |
(_)/ (_) |
 
>>Mike Latondresse wrote:
>>>Me too. I have toasted 2 of them with a perfect chainline and they
>>>spewed out all sorts of tiny bearings. Doesn't anyone make a fixie hub
>>>with decent cup and cone any more.

> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:51:34 -0600, A Muzi wrote:
>>Yes, many. Including Campagnolo Record, not all that
>>expensive considering it should last the rest of your life
>>with reasonable care.

David L. Johnson wrote:
> Well, I don't know about that. Mine is only 40 years old now, so I don't
> know whether it will last a lifetime or not.


Yeah, I guess that's one of those 'lifestyle' questions.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
Greg-<< but I have been
contemplating building a fixed-gear bike for a few years and I
have been wondering where one obtains drivetrain parts. I've
never seen a single-speed rear hub or a single-chainring crank in
any bike shops or catalogs. Where can I get them? >><BR><BR>

I say-In a bike shop that speaks single speed and fixed gear. Take a double
crank, remove one ring, put other on inside with track(shorter) chainring
bolts, single/fixie crank. Take a track hub, frewheel hub, spin on a track cog
or BMX freewheel, fixie/SS hub. There are many hubs out there, from 120mm
spacing thru 135mm. Track, road, many. You just need to find a bike shop that
knows these things. making a SS/fixie is generally really easy, cheap.

All wheels are dished, they just are normally dished the same each side,
symmetrical

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
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