Sitting or Standing/uphill battles

[Alan McClure]

To sit or to stand when climbing uphill? I found this article online, and I was wondering if anyone
has any more info. on it, or any added experience. http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0045.htm

I think that I have found my own experience is pretty similar, when the incline is moderate, then
sitting seems easier, while if the incline is steep, standing seems to make the work easier. Of
course, I am no professional cyclist, but my legs are fairly well developed, so I would think that
my experience would make sense by its meshing with the article's view. Anyway, for a long time I
tried to climb everything sitting, and then after a while only resorted to standing on the really
difficult(steep and technical) sections that would consistently drain my energy reserves. Sometimes
on the uphills I think about buying barends, because I think it may help me keep my weight
positioned properly more easily, but I never buy any because of cost, the possibility of hooking a
tree, and the increased possibility of hooking me during a crash. Maybe I should reconsider. Anyway,
I guess I just switched from one topic to another--oh well, they are connected anyway.

Alan McClure

 

[B A R R Y B U R]

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 04:50:31 GMT, "Alan McClure" <[email protected]> wrote:

>To sit or to stand when climbing uphill?

Sometimes both on the same hill, and I never criticize what works for others. <G> The bike,
terrain, available gearing, knee condition, fitness, personal preference, etc... all come into play
when climbing.

Climbing also depends on the bike. I tend to stand more often on hardtails and road bikes, while
sitting more often on full bouncers.

Barry

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

B a r r y B u r k e J r . <Keep it in the [email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 04:50:31 GMT, "Alan McClure" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >To sit or to stand when climbing uphill?
>
> Sometimes both on the same hill, and I never criticize what works for others. <G> The bike,
> terrain, available gearing, knee condition, fitness, personal preference, etc... all come into
> play when climbing.
>
> Climbing also depends on the bike. I tend to stand more often on hardtails and road bikes, while
> sitting more often on full bouncers.
>
> Barry

I nearly always sit for climbs - the only time I ever really stand for a climb is to negotiate a
ledgey move or similar. I find standing makes it harder to keep a balance between good traction and
keeping the front end of the bike down. I sit and hunker right down low on the bike, right on the
nose of the saddle, and 'twitch' my weight fore and aft whenever needed. I'm no superstar of
climbing, but for my level of fitness, (I'd like to believe) I do more than OK ',;~}~

Shaun aRe

 

[J'M Sm'Th]

Alan McClure wrote:
>
> To sit or to stand when climbing uphill? I found this article online, and I was wondering if
> anyone has any more info. on it, or any added experience. http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0045.htm
>
> I think that I have found my own experience is pretty similar, when the incline is moderate, then
> sitting seems easier, while if the incline is steep, standing seems to make the work easier. Of
> course, I am no professional cyclist, but my legs are fairly well developed, so I would think
> that my experience would make sense by its meshing with the article's view. Anyway, for a long
> time I tried to climb everything sitting, and then after a while only resorted to standing on the
> really difficult(steep and technical) sections that would consistently drain my energy reserves.
> Sometimes on the uphills I think about buying barends, because I think it may help me keep my
> weight positioned properly more easily, but I never buy any because of cost, the possibility of
> hooking a tree, and the increased possibility of hooking me during a crash. Maybe I should
> reconsider. Anyway, I guess I just switched from one topic to another--oh well, they are
> connected anyway.
>
> Alan McClure

Will depend somewhat on the bike, no? On a hardtail, getting out of the saddle on the
steep/technical stuff allows you to shift your your weight around more nimbly, keeping the front
down and the rear hooked up. Full sus would be different, I suppose. Are you having trouble
climbing? If not, don't change
it.

As far as bar ends go, find a used pair from a friend and try them. I tried them, then ditched them
for riser bars. Have never missed them.

--
J'm

To Reply Direct, Remove Clothes. ...-.-

 

[J'M Sm'Th]

Alan McClure wrote:
>
> To sit or to stand when climbing uphill? I found this article online, and I was wondering if
> anyone has any more info. on it, or any added experience. http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0045.htm

Then again, that's all road cycling.

--
J'm

To Reply Direct, Remove Clothes. ...-.-

 

[Bob M]

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 09:30:16 -0500, J'm Sm'th <[email protected]> wrote:

> Alan McClure wrote:
>>
>> To sit or to stand when climbing uphill? I found this article online, and I was wondering if
>> anyone has any more info. on it, or any added experience.
>> http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0045.htm
>>
>> I think that I have found my own experience is pretty similar, when the incline is moderate, then
>> sitting seems easier, while if the incline is steep, standing seems to make the work easier. Of
>> course, I am no professional cyclist, but my legs are fairly well developed, so I would think
>> that my experience would make sense by its meshing with the article's view. Anyway, for a long
>> time I tried to climb everything sitting, and then after a while only resorted to standing on the
>> really difficult(steep and technical) sections that would consistently drain my energy reserves.
>> Sometimes on the uphills I think about buying barends, because I think it may help me keep my
>> weight positioned properly more easily, but I never buy any because of cost, the possibility of
>> hooking a tree, and the increased possibility of hooking me during a crash. Maybe I should
>> reconsider. Anyway, I guess I just switched from one topic to another--oh well, they are
>> connected anyway.
>>
>> Alan McClure
>
> Will depend somewhat on the bike, no? On a hardtail, getting out of the saddle on the
> steep/technical stuff allows you to shift your your weight around more nimbly, keeping the front
> down and the rear hooked up. Full sus would be different, I suppose. Are you having trouble
> climbing? If not, don't change
> it.
>
> As far as bar ends go, find a used pair from a friend and try them. I tried them, then ditched
> them for riser bars. Have never missed them.
>

Standing though tends to be harder for some reason than sitting -- if you put too much weight on the
front, you'll lose traction in the rear (which means, in AZ anyway, you walk). It's harder for me
than sitting, although I tend to stand quite a bit.

For bar ends -- I love them. I really crank on them when standing. I wouldn't have a mountain bike
without them.

--
Bob M in CT Remove 'x.' to reply

 

[Higb]

Alan McClure <[email protected]> wrote:
> To sit or to stand when climbing uphill? I found this article online, and I was wondering if
> anyone has any more info. on it, or any added experience. http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0045.htm

A higher VO2max ... "Fitness can be measured by the volume of oxygen you can consume while
exercising at your maximum capacity. VO2 max is the maximum amount of oxygen in milliliters, one can
use in one minute per kilogram of body weight."

http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/vo2max.htm

Yeah, that matches my experience. You can give yourself a burst of speed, but at the risk of
using up what's in your legs. (Though there are interesting notes on that page about how to
improve your VO2max.)

 

[Jd]

J'm Sm'th <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Alan McClure wrote:
> >
> > To sit or to stand when climbing uphill? I found this article online, and I was wondering if
> > anyone has any more info. on it, or any added experience.
> > http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0045.htm
>
> Then again, that's all road cycling.

The devil's work.

Sitting or standing is situational to the rider, bicycle and conditions.

JD

 

[Bob M]

On 2 Jul 2003 09:25:21 -0700, JD <[email protected]> wrote:

> J'm Sm'th <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> Alan McClure wrote:
>> > > To sit or to stand when climbing uphill? I found this article
>> online, and I
>> > was wondering if anyone has any more info. on it, or any added
>> experience.
>> > http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0045.htm
>>
>> Then again, that's all road cycling.
>
> The devil's work.
>
> Sitting or standing is situational to the rider, bicycle and conditions.
>
> JD
>

I've found it way easier to stand while road biking than mountain biking. You don't have to
worry too much about weight transfer when riding a racing bike (or a mountain bike on the road),
unless it's wet.

--
Bob M in CT Remove 'x.' to reply

 

[Mike Cox]

~"Alan McClure" <[email protected]> wrote in message ~news:rwtMa.14390~$Xm3.3036@sccrnsc02... ~To
sit or to stand when climbing uphill? I found this article online, and I ~was wondering if anyone
has any more info. on it, or any added experience.

There was a thread on rec.bicycles.racing regarding knee pain on the upper front of the knee cap.
What I got out of it was that higher cadence in an easier gear, while standing would help alleviate
stress on the knees. I had been sitting and grinding out climbs and was regularly sore and in pain
the next day (while climbing stairs). I have noticed far less knee pain since changing the climbing
style (and I seem in better condition at the top of the climb).

Granted, the advice was free and from usenet from someone who may or may not be a doctor, but for my
specific problem, it seems to have helped.

Mike

The text from the relevant post is quoted below:

About the only knee problems seen with any frequency in cyclists are Patello-Femoral syndromes, i.e.
things related to the knee cap mechanism and the joint between the knee cap and the femur. There are
several different entities which can cause this; patellar or quadriceps tendonitis, chondromalacia,
patellar instability, etc. The tendonitis problems are caused by strain and subsequent inflammation
on the attachment between the tendon and the bone. Chondromalacia is a problem with developing
irregularities under the knee cap in the patello-femoral joint. Pretty common problem for bike
riders. Patients often notice a clicking or catching when extending the knee from a flexed position.

For all these problems the pain is in the anterior portion of the knee, around the knee cap. They
will all get worse if there is increased force applied by the quadriceps, particularly if this
occurs while the knee is in a more flexed position. Climbing stairs or ladders causes more problem,
as does riding up hill or in higher gears.

In general for all anterior knee pain problems and cycling the approach is the same; heat before and
ice after riding, NSAIDs (ibuprofen, et. al.), keeping knees warm while riding, lower gears,
standing occasionally rather than sitting and grinding. For positioning you want to raise the saddle
and put it further back. It can also help to use a shorter crank. These positions make it so there
is less flex in the knee at the top of the stroke (during max quadriceps contraction) and therefore
less force against the patello-femoral mechanism. Avoiding hills and using lower gears is also a
good idea. Standing, rather than sitting and grinding, on hills is probably better. This decreases
the force across the patello-femoral mechanism.

Stretching the opposing (hamstring) muscles may decreased force a bit. Use of a knee sleeve or
infra-patellar strap may limit the excursion of the patella or move forces away from the
attachment of the tendon to the patella and help somewhat. Exercises are often recommended but I
suspect that they are probably more useful in the non-athletic population and/or those with
patellar instability issues.

Beyond this there really isn't much info. Unfortunately there are not many orthopedists that have
much experience with problems seen in cyclists, in part because the number of injured cyclists is
pretty small.

There is a reasonable article at: http://www.aafp.org/afp/991101ap/2012.html

Posterior knee pain is usually a sign of inflammation inside the joint and possibly a development of
a Baker's cyst (an extension of the knee joint capsule into the "knee pit"). The other alternative
is tendonitis of the hamstrings, which is fairly uncommon. Hamstrings tendonitis should be treated
by lowering the saddle, using lower gears, keeping the legs warm, etc. Baker's cysts need to be
addressed by looking at the underlying problem, often a cartilage tear obtained in another sport.

Mike Murray MD

 

[Craig Brossman]

"J'm Sm'th" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> As far as bar ends go, find a used pair from a friend and try them. I
tried
> them, then ditched them for riser bars. Have never missed them.
>
> --
> J'm
>
>
> To Reply Direct, Remove Clothes. ...-.-

My 2 cents on bar ends. I was thinking about this today on my morning ride. My FS is still in pieces
and has not been ridden in 3 weeks, it has risers. My back up HT does not have risers, it has bull
horns, essentially a straight bar with ends. I'm out on the "bar ends" much of the time on the
climb, in part because I can get more laid out, but I think mostly because it makes the front end
less twitchy. On the FS with risers, there are no bar ends, but the front does not feel twitchy.

So I wonder to myself, self, is the similarity of the flat bar with ends and the riser w/o that both
allow me to get sufficiently wide (knowing that typical risers are wider than typical straights) and
therefore have a more stable front end? Is this why so many folks say that once they went to risers,
they were not interested in bar ends? Maybe, maybe not. I do think that risers with ends looks
awkward, and I just don't need to add more "awkward" to my biking look!

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove .nospam. if replying)

 

[Bob M]

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:51:46 -0700, Mike Cox <NoSpamThanks_sch- [email protected]> wrote:

>
> ~"Alan McClure" <[email protected]> wrote in message ~news:rwtMa.14390~$Xm3.3036@sccrnsc02...
> ~To sit or to stand when climbing uphill? I found this article online, and I ~was wondering if
> anyone has any more info. on it, or any added experience.
>
[cut]

You also have to compare mountain bike gearing and racing bike gearing. With "normal" (not 3 front
chainrings) racing bikes, the gearing can get harsh. I've decreased the front chainring size and
increased the rear cog size, but on my racing bike, there's certain hills where I have to stand.
Sitting on those hills would mean quite a lot of pressure on my knees. However, on my mountain bike,
I could easy spin up the same hills while sitting. The gearing on mountain bikes is so much easier
than on racing bikes (although my next racing bike will likely be a tripple front chainring). Also,
even on smaller hills, I'll stand just to provide my body with a different position.

--
Bob M in CT Remove 'x.' to reply

 

[Mike Cox]

"Bob M" <[email protected]> wrote in message news[email protected]...

> You also have to compare mountain bike gearing and racing bike gearing. With "normal" (not 3 front
> chainrings) racing bikes, the gearing can get harsh.
>
True, I suppose it is like comparing tangerines and oranges.

Mike

 

[The Ogre]

"Alan McClure" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<rwtMa.14390$Xm3.3036@sccrnsc02>...
> To sit or to stand when climbing uphill? I found this article online, and I was wondering if
> anyone has any more info. on it, or any added experience. http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0045.htm
>
> I think that I have found my own experience is pretty similar, when the incline is moderate, then
> sitting seems easier, while if the incline is steep, standing seems to make the work easier. Of
> course, I am no professional cyclist, but my legs are fairly well developed, so I would think
> that my experience would make sense by its meshing with the article's view. Anyway, for a long
> time I tried to climb everything sitting, and then after a while only resorted to standing on the
> really difficult(steep and technical) sections that would consistently drain my energy reserves.
> Sometimes on the uphills I think about buying barends, because I think it may help me keep my
> weight positioned properly more easily, but I never buy any because of cost, the possibility of
> hooking a tree, and the increased possibility of hooking me during a crash. Maybe I should
> reconsider. Anyway, I guess I just switched from one topic to another--oh well, they are
> connected anyway.
>
> Alan McClure

I generally prefer to sit on climbs but that is by all means not 100%. On long climbs it's good to
switch positions for at least part of the climb to rest your muscles and prevent things from going
numb. I also tend to stand on short/ steep climbs when I don't want to downshift. Standing on really
steep sections often causes the rear tire to spin out though so its a judgement call.

Do what works for you.

-- The Ogre

 

[Raptor]

Chris Carmichael says he recommends to LANCE to stand and climb in lower gears at LANCE's trademark
high cadence in order to shift some of the workload from LANCE's leg muscles to his cardio system.

I ride a FSX bike off-road, so I spend most of my time sitting. The suspension keeps the rear wheel
on the ground over bumps, and also soaks up some of your pedaling power. I actually prefer rough
trails with sketchy traction nowadays.

On the road, if I had a higher power-to-weight ratio I think I'd spend more time standing. I do
stand up for recovery. Once you practice and train, you can find an efficient technique that
permits recovery.

Pro racers do both kinds of climbing on the same climb, usually.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.