Six-pack = too thin for cycling?

[Dondare]

When properly trained, greater muscle mass tends to produce greater power. In a gross generalization, if each cell can produce a certain amount of aerobic power, then more cells means more power. In any case, fat doesn't help push the pedals, so good riders try to be pretty lean.

The best way to do that is by riding your bike in a group, not standing on a scale. Most of the posts above are gross generalizations based on entire populations of riders. Don't try to apply them to one individual or another.

I believe that when muscles inrease in size as a result of training, the individual cells grow but the number of cell remains the same.

Keeping body fat low requires discipline both on the bike and at the table. The saying is:- "Six-packs are made in the kitchen, not the gym".

 

[frenchyge]

I believe that when muscles inrease in size as a result of training, the individual cells grow but the number of cell remains the same.

That's my understanding as well. I was referring more to a comparison between a large, muscular person vs. a skinny person (and why you might expect more absolute power from the former), rather than someone who had changed their own body composition through muscular hypertrophy.

 

[Jacob24]

well generally being on the thin side isnt going to affect your cycling performance. but it depends what type of race your aiming for. if it has mountains then it will be in your best interest to lose as much weight as possible without significantly affecting your power output or your training. but if your aiming for a flatish road race or a crit then losing weight isnt really going to help you unless your actually fat and it might even put you at a disadvantage.

mountain/hilly race its best to be thin (although there are plenty of heavier cyclists who can climb)

flat time trial/road race/crit weight loss is pointless unless your fat to begin with.

according to this site it still would be slightly beneficial to lose weight in a flat race or time trial w3.iac.net/~curta/bp/BikeSheet.html
This site also has a volocity predicter link that is very cool.

 

[bike_man0079]

On that picture, that guy has nice, big package down there.

 

[bladegeek]

Weight and Six-Pack do not go together. I am 6'2" 175 and have had a six pack since I was a kid....genetics I guess however even when I weighed 185lbs....the most ever in my life.... I still had abs. It is about lossing the fat. And I think that I am a heavy rider....can' t be too skinny to ride unless you just un-healthy skinny.

 

[hsg]

i bet bruce lee would have made excellent starting material for a cyclist.


one stat i read on him was 5'9 & 125. idk how accurate that is, but it looks about right.


im thinking his frontal surface area (& weight) was minimal compared to his strength & mindset.

interesting to consider.

 

[POGATA]

well generally a heavier rider has more power. ill use a comparison between pro riders to explain. this year fabian cancellara won paris-roubaix which is pretty much flat, he weighs somewhere around 80kg. riders like michael rassmussen or carlos sastre do not have enough power to win paris roubaix, this is because they are light, rassmussen gets down to about 58kg for the tour and sastre is around 61kg.

when they have to race up mountains they dont have to carry as much weight so they are at an advantage. but when they race on the flat against heavier riders who are able to produce more power due to their higher level of muscle mass they cannot go as well. this is also why many of the noted time trial specialists (sergui gonchar, michael rogers etc) are heavier riders.

so if your focusing on flat races it might be best for you to focus on putting on or maintaining muscle mass (but not fat as a high level of body fat will reduce your efficiency) then to focus on losing weight. however if you are racing in mountains it might be best to lose weight to improve your performance.

David Zabriskie - 67 kg
PAOLO BETTINI - 58 kg

 

[dm69]

i bet bruce lee would have made excellent starting material for a cyclist.


one stat i read on him was 5'9 & 125. idk how accurate that is, but it looks about right.


im thinking his frontal surface area (& weight) was minimal compared to his strength & mindset.

interesting to consider.

Not interesting at all actually. Im sure there are quie a few ppl in this world who hav been 5'9 and 125.

PS: What has strength to do with it?...and mindset? you need a very different mindset for cycling!

Lance armstrong was 5"10 an 74kg's...perfect build for a chess player? acountant? soccer player?

 

[BullGod]

well generally a heavier rider has more power. ill use a comparison between pro riders to explain. this year fabian cancellara won paris-roubaix which is pretty much flat, he weighs somewhere around 80kg. riders like michael rassmussen or carlos sastre do not have enough power to win paris roubaix, this is because they are light, rassmussen gets down to about 58kg for the tour and sastre is around 61kg.

.

power to weight ratio should really even things out to some extent. A real reason why lighter riders struggle in races like Paris Roubaix and Ronde van Vlaanderen is that if you are light you get blown around more in the wind, and, crucially, you bounce around a lot more on the cobblestones.....your back wheel is bumping off the ground quite a bit more than a heavier rider, and when it is not fully grounded the force you put into the pedals goes nowhere.

Lighter riders tend to be less good at sprinting than heavier more powerful riders, so in flatter races, and criteriums they are not likely to win. It seems to me (at 69kg) that sprinting from 25 to 50 kph out of a corner 3 times a minute takes a lot more out of me than it does to a guy who is 85kg.....

 

[Alex Simmons]

Lighter riders tend to be less good at sprinting than heavier more powerful riders, so in flatter races, and criteriums they are not likely to win. It seems to me (at 69kg) that sprinting from 25 to 50 kph out of a corner 3 times a minute takes a lot more out of me than it does to a guy who is 85kg.....

Can't say I agree with your conclusion. Robbie McEwen is 67kg. He can ride a pretty good crit. Presumably it has more to do with your neuromuscular abilities than your weight.

 

[POGATA]

power to weight ratio should really even things out to some extent. A real reason why lighter riders struggle in races like Paris Roubaix and Ronde van Vlaanderen is that if you are light you get blown around more in the wind, and, crucially, you bounce around a lot more on the cobblestones.....your back wheel is bumping off the ground quite a bit more than a heavier rider, and when it is not fully grounded the force you put into the pedals goes nowhere.

Lighter riders tend to be less good at sprinting than heavier more powerful riders, so in flatter races, and criteriums they are not likely to win. It seems to me (at 69kg) that sprinting from 25 to 50 kph out of a corner 3 times a minute takes a lot more out of me than it does to a guy who is 85kg.....

PAOLO BETTINI - 58 kg

 

[BullGod]

Can't say I agree with your conclusion. Robbie McEwen is 67kg. He can ride a pretty good crit. Presumably it has more to do with your neuromuscular abilities than your weight.

yeah - but as I say - Robbie is an exception to the general rule that sprinters tend to be heavier and more powerfully built than other riders.....

He's never been a contender in Paris Roubaix or RvV though right?

 

[LarsEjaas]

It all depends on your goals. If climbs are your major objective, then go ahead - loose those extra pounds of body fat. But always remember - if you are really skinny you will suffer in the cold, rainy races more than the rest of the riders.

Below a certain point it will also get harder to avoid sickness when you are really skinny - so if all your races are flat, I really wouldn't go below around 8% bodyfat. But this also have something to do with genetics, so the individual rider have to figure out what works best for him.

 

[Alex Simmons]

yeah - but as I say - Robbie is an exception to the general rule that sprinters tend to be heavier and more powerfully built than other riders.....

He's never been a contender in Paris Roubaix or RvV though right?

Yeah, he's an exception....
Along with all these other winners of Grand Tour sprints:
Erik Zabel is 69kg.
Stuart O'Grady 73kg.
Mario Cippolini 76kg.
Alessandro Petacchi 70kg.
Baden Cooke 73kg.
Oscar Freire 63kg.

Boonen is clearly a fatso at 80-82kg just kidding

Now if you're talking track sprinters....

 

[BullGod]

Yeah, he's an exception....
Along with all these other winners of Grand Tour sprints:
Erik Zabel is 69kg.
Stuart O'Grady 73kg.
Mario Cippolini 76kg.
Alessandro Petacchi 70kg.
Baden Cooke 73kg.
Oscar Freire 63kg.

Boonen is clearly a fatso at 80-82kg just kidding

Now if you're talking track sprinters....

I see your point but if you watch the Belgian pro races you see all the skinny guys struggling at the back, and all the stockier, more powerful looking riders up at the front. Now there may not be much of a difference in overall bodyweight, but there is quite a difference in the way the weight is spread around. Guys with bollard thighs and bulging muscles seem to go better on the flat and the cobbles and the wind than willowy slender types.

I guess it's explosive power that makes them difference

see how in all the Belgian PT races the Euskaltel team is always at the back from the off? I'm sure a lot of those guys weigh the same as Nico Eekhout ("Rambo") but there's no way they can ride as fast as him on the cobbles in a roaring headwind....

 

[Tapeworm]

As far as my knowledge goes weight is the important factor when a) climbing and b) accelerating. Both are about your power to weight ratio. To improve you can either drop weight or increase power (or both!).

On a flat TT weight is not as much of an issue and then it comes down to total power output and aerodynamics.

I think as one poster said, there are no problems with being skinny, or very skinny for that matter as long as it does not affect your performance and/or health. For myself, I am 180cm, 72kgs and 6% body fat. The only problem I encounter is that I feel the cold, not much insulation!

I think you are good at what you train for and have natural ability for. You probably see more heavier riders at crits and tt's cause it doesn't matter as much as say, a hill climb TT.


FWIW, I did a crit on Sat and the field was ripped apart by a Spaniard who looked just slightly heavier than Rasmussen.


My 2 cents worth.

 

[Felt_Rider]

The only problem I encounter is that I feel the cold, not much insulation!

It seems like that could be a slight benefit during hot weather in helping not to overheat as quickly as someone who is wearing a thicker subcutaneous layer of fat. Maybe not a huge difference, but perhaps a little.

As my skin thins I am grateful for the oncoming warm weather. A few weeks ago I couldn't seem to get warm enough just sitting in my house.

 

[tuney]

Yeah, he's an exception....
Along with all these other winners of Grand Tour sprints:
Erik Zabel is 69kg.
Stuart O'Grady 73kg.
Mario Cippolini 76kg.
Alessandro Petacchi 70kg.
Baden Cooke 73kg.
Oscar Freire 63kg.

Boonen is clearly a fatso at 80-82kg just kidding

Now if you're talking track sprinters....

Yeah Boonen is a fatso...a really really fast fatso.

So in conclusion

Bigger(frame not fat) Rider = Bigger Lungs etc (+/- n%) = bigger power
Its the freaks who are at the + side who are the amazing athletes...so I suppose for every kid who was last by miles in the egg and spoon race, there was one who was miles ahead.

Ultimately I suppose its a balance between absolute power (maybe like Magnus B) and power to weight (I dont know maybe pantani).

If you can get over the hills with the little skinny blokes then crush them on the flat you are pretty well made.

Then if you can sprint at the end all the better...thanks to sprint training or some wicked FT fibres

That about sum it up?

 

[Thumperings]

yea but he's only 5'7 or 5'8. I'm 6'2 and just dropped from about 184 pounds last xmas to about 158. I was 164 a week ago, but with warm weather i wanted to bike everyday for a week and dropped almost 10 pounds.

I drop weight so fast bicycling it's scary, and worse than that;.... heavy exercise makes my appetite go away. I'm worried I might have to stop biking. Very frustrating.

 

[quenya]

If you're dropping weight fast it's probably water and or a little glycogen. I obsess about body weight a bit and can see 4 lb swings if I eat a lot of salt on my rest day. But, it drops right off when I get back into the training schedule. Two weeks ago I went from 153 Wednesday morning to 168 Monday night by spending a weekend at Disneyland but was back down to near normal Friday last week. To lose 10 lbs of body weight, not just retained water, would require a calorie deficit in the neighborhood of 35,000 calories. Riding 5000 calories in a day is pretty tough, doing 7 days in a row is exceptional, if you're not replenishing those calories and are in fact maintaining that kind of deficit I think it would be impossible...