Skinny legs vs Large legs (MUSCLE)

[mennitt]

I'm naturally a runner and will jump on the bike to cross train or to enjoy a 18mph 45 mi ride. Last summer I gained a lot of muscle in my quads and my legs are huge now. I seen many cyclists with skinner legs than I have now and am wondering how that happens? Also is there any way I can burn this muscle off without risking injury? Thanks for any advice

 

[jsirabella]

Why do you want to burn off muscle?

Based on your post, it sounds like to me you had never done weight lifting so your larger legs were not a result of weight lifting but if you really want to burn off muscle it is really no different than burning off fat.

Less calories in and more calories out and your body is very resourceful so when forced will go straight for the muscles to feed itself hence the term catabolic state.

On a side note I would first check my actual bodyfat % before doing that.

-js

I'm naturally a runner and will jump on the bike to cross train or to enjoy a 18mph 45 mi ride. Last summer I gained a lot of muscle in my quads and my legs are huge now. I seen many cyclists with skinner legs than I have now and am wondering how that happens? Also is there any way I can burn this muscle off without risking injury? Thanks for any advice

 

[mennitt]

Why do you want to burn off muscle?

Based on your post, it sounds like to me you had never done weight lifting so your larger legs were not a result of weight lifting but if you really want to burn off muscle it is really no different than burning off fat.

Less calories in and more calories out and your body is very resourceful so when forced will go straight for the muscles to feed itself hence the term catabolic state.

On a side note I would first check my actual bodyfat % before doing that.

-js

I'm running, it's the lean wolf that leads the pack. My body fat right now is about 12%..should be about 6-7%. I'm just afraid if I don't fuel my body with enough calories then I'll be risking injury.

 

[jsirabella]

Right now I am at about 15% (depends on when you measure) and want to reach closer to 10% in the next couple of months. At 12% I think you are fairly lean for most races but if you expect your racing to be very hilly or very long I can see why you want to get below 10%. Personally though I do not think you need to go below 10% as your joints actually need a bit of body fat. Granted this is cycling so people can get pretty extreme, me personally, no. I do not know your age as that plays a factor.

Also keep in mind at such an already low body fat%, you have to have a fairly precise diet of knowing how many grams of fat, protein and such you are eating to loose fat and not muscle. I used to have a few articles but can not locate them now but will try and find them.

-js

I'm running, it's the lean wolf that leads the pack. My body fat right now is about 12%..should be about 6-7%. I'm just afraid if I don't fuel my body with enough calories then I'll be risking injury.

 

[ronsan]

I'm naturally a runner and will jump on the bike to cross train or to enjoy a 18mph 45 mi ride. Last summer I gained a lot of muscle in my quads and my legs are huge now. I seen many cyclists with skinner legs than I have now and am wondering how that happens? Also is there any way I can burn this muscle off without risking injury? Thanks for any advice

Make sure that itz muscles , it may be fat , if it is fat , there ar elot of ways to burn it off, arobic , etc

 

[velo711]

You also have to factor in a genetic predisposition too, ie: if my great Grandfather had skinny legs, I'll have skinny legs(which I do)(and he may have).

 

[velomanct]

Sounds like all you need to do is stay off the bike if you prefer you're stick runner legs.

It's just genetics by the way. Some people gain leg muscle from biking, ut most will lose muscle from such aerobic exercise. (assuming they were bulky)

 

[Trekhead]

If you have huge legs from biking then it sounds like you gain muscle very easy. You might want to try working your other muscles and see what happens.

 

[Pendejo]

Based on my observations (especially of the pros) and personal experience, hard biking firms the legs up and gives them a wiry definition, but doesn't add bulk. Has anyone here actually added muscular bulk through cycling?

 

[Trekhead]

It really depends on how you ride and even more on your genetics. If your rides are an hour or more of constant pedaling at a fixed pace, like a road biker, then your legs probably won't develop much in the way of muscle mass at all. If you're riding trails you're going to be climbing and decending over and over again and the short (sometimes long) bursts of all out energy up a hill are going to do more to stimulate muscle growth than distance riding on the road all day long. It's like how a marathon runner looks like he never eats and a sprinter has massive legs and even a somewhat large upperbody. On the genetics side of things, some people build muscle by doing just about any physical activity with a good degree of intensity while others can work their whole life and never build more than 10 pounds of muscle.

 

[Pendejo]

... It's like how a marathon runner looks like he never eats and a sprinter has massive legs and even a somewhat large upperbody...

Yes, Trek, but I would suggest that the marathoner and the sprinter didn't each develop their particular physiques as a result of their sport; rather, those are the types of physiques that excel in those particular sports.

 

[Trekhead]

Yeah that's true too. Of course the people that excel in the sport are going to be on the extreme end of the physique scale for that sport. The best sprinters are likely to be the most muscular and the best endurance runners are likely to be the skinniest. That doesn't mean that you won't have some mediocre sprinters that are on the skinny side and some mediocre runners that are muscular.

 

[jsirabella]

Certain types of cycling like Mountain or Cyclocross will build and require somes muscle and upper body strength but in the end aerobics does not build muscle and in most cases will destroy muscle.

Genetics does play a role as it does in any sport but the determining factor in this case is diet. Nutrition will determine if you are gaining muscle or loosing muscleand while you believe you may be gaining muscle it may be just fat. You can only tell by taking your body fat %.

When I wake up in the morning on a Saturday I can be 180 +/- pounds and 15% bodyfat...after a 3 hour session with a mix of 2 hours cycling and an hour of weight training I can go down to 175 and 11.5% bodyfat. I can sweat quite a bit of it out...puddles.

-js

Yes, Trek, but I would suggest that the marathoner and the sprinter didn't each develop their particular physiques as a result of their sport; rather, those are the types of physiques that excel in those particular sports.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

...When I wake up in the morning on a Saturday I can be 180 +/- pounds and 15% bodyfat...after a 3 hour session with a mix of 2 hours cycling and an hour of weight training I can go down to 175 and 11.5% bodyfat. I can sweat quite a bit of it out...puddles. ...

Yes, you can sweat out several pounds in a hard indoor workout, but I'm sure you know your body fat doesn't actually change that much, just your hydration state.

The example above shows a nearly 7 pound drop in body fat, you might have dropped say six and a half pounds of water weight and perhaps up to half a pound of body fat but there's no way you actually dropped 7 pounds of fat during your workout. That would require you to burn 24,500 Calories or the equivalent of riding at 300 watts for more than 21 straight hours!

I see what you're trying to say, scale weight can drop a lot during a sweaty indoor ride, true enough. But body fat doesn't change that rapidly regardless of what an impedance based scale or underwater weighing might show. It's a problem with those techniques that they are heavily influenced by hydration state.

-Dave

 

[jsirabella]

I guess I forgot to include some needed details....

My morning ritual includes waking up, stripping down and weighing myself before I do anything. It seems to be my body is on a clock where I will use the toilet usually 2-3 times before taking my last weigh in after taking my shower at the end.

Lets just say I seem to heavy rather large ... How much they weigh...well I will not know.

But I can tell you that the scale while not as exact as using tapes told me 15%, 180 Saturday morning...Saturday after shower 12% ... 176...

Next time I will use the tape measure and see how much off from scale...

-js

Yes, you can sweat out several pounds in a hard indoor workout, but I'm sure you know your body fat doesn't actually change that much, just your hydration state.

The example above shows a nearly 7 pound drop in body fat, you might have dropped say six and a half pounds of water weight and perhaps up to half a pound of body fat but there's no way you actually dropped 7 pounds of fat during your workout. That would require you to burn 24,500 Calories or the equivalent of riding at 300 watts for more than 21 straight hours!

I see what you're trying to say, scale weight can drop a lot during a sweaty indoor ride, true enough. But body fat doesn't change that rapidly regardless of what an impedance based scale or underwater weighing might show. It's a problem with those techniques that they are heavily influenced by hydration state.

-Dave

 

[daveryanwyoming]

...But I can tell you that the scale while not as exact as using tapes told me 15%, 180 Saturday morning...Saturday after shower 12% ... 176......

No argument with the weight part, just the percentage body fat part. It's simply not possible to drop 4, 5 or 6 pounds of actual fat that rapidly, you've got to burn 3500 Calories to actually burn off a pound of fat, even one pound is a big workout.

Your tape might even show a small reduction depending on where you carry your excess water, do a multi point skin caliper test for the most reliable body fat in this case (checking real fat losses vs. hydration changes). If you always track body fat while in similar hydration states and you've practiced the technique then I prefer underwater weighing but like I said above it's heavily influenced by hydration state. I've never had much luck with electrical impedance based methods, even when both underwater weighing and multipoint caliper measurements had me below 10% body fat the electrical methods (handheld, integrated into bathroom scale and multicontact lab units) had me at 18-20%.

No, I don't actually obsess about body fat as much as this post would make it look. I got roped into a few studies over the years, they like probing and prodding cyclists and I got some free VO2 Max tests out of the deal

-Dave

 

[jsirabella]

OK based upon what I remember and heard lately:

1. DEXA - The Gold Standard past 5yrs
2. Bod pod - Accurate, doesn't compartmentalize like the DEXA
3. BIA - Only if you are hydrated
4. Underwater weighing - Remaining air in the lungs becomes too much of a variable
5. Skin Fold - Dependant on the experience of the user

I do agree the electrical method can be quite variable but it will give you a general idea of where you are heading...ok Dave now I am getting nutty about it and will check where I can get a DEXA test...

I know we talk about this off forum so for a cyclist what do you believe is a good overall bodyfat % for most races and except in extreme cases I can not see why someone would want to loose muscle.

-js

No argument with the weight part, just the percentage body fat part. It's simply not possible to drop 4, 5 or 6 pounds of actual fat that rapidly, you've got to burn 3500 Calories to actually burn off a pound of fat, even one pound is a big workout.

Your tape might even show a small reduction depending on where you carry your excess water, do a multi point skin caliper test for the most reliable body fat in this case (checking real fat losses vs. hydration changes). If you always track body fat while in similar hydration states and you've practiced the technique then I prefer underwater weighing but like I said above it's heavily influenced by hydration state. I've never had much luck with electrical impedance based methods, even when both underwater weighing and multipoint caliper measurements had me below 10% body fat the electrical methods (handheld, integrated into bathroom scale and multicontact lab units) had me at 18-20%.

No, I don't actually obsess about body fat as much as this post would make it look. I got roped into a few studies over the years, they like probing and prodding cyclists and I got some free VO2 Max tests out of the deal

-Dave

 

[daveryanwyoming]

....I know we talk about this off forum so for a cyclist what do you believe is a good overall bodyfat % for most races and except in extreme cases I can not see why someone would want to loose muscle....

Back in the day I had body fat percentage targets and they were under 10%. I know you get a lot of posts by folks talking about sub 5% BF numbers but I've never wanted to push the envelope that far.

These days I think of it more in terms of maximizing watts/kg which speaks to your statement. Pure weight or percentage body fat can be counterproductive if you end up sacrificing too much power. Especially for an all around racer that wants to do reasonably well on big climbs, fast crits and time trials. That's part of the reason that I haven't done a percentage body fat measurement in a very long time. I no longer see it as the ultimate goal. I do track scale weight and sustainable power.

Last season I raced at ~70 kg and continued to build power throughout the season. This year I'm a bit leaner and targeting ~68 kg for the big climbing races. But I'm also keeping a close eye on my power for long training intervals. If that starts to fall or I have trouble with recovery I'll stop dropping weight.

Anyway, I don't have any preset body fat targets but do have an idea of what I'd like to hit in terms of watts/kg for the big climbs. I also have an idea of what I'd like to hit in terms of pure watts for long time trials. Between the two I've got an idea of where I'd like my total weight to be but exactly how much is fat? I can't say but it's not a lot.

I've also got my RD wife to sanity check my obsessive tendencies. She's done a lot of work with eating disorders both in the typical adolescent population and with athletes who've taken things a bit too far. She keeps me honest when it comes to healthy weight goals.

-Dave

 

[Felt_Rider]

Back in my days competing in bodybuilding where BF % means a lot I was really excited about my condition 6 weeks out from one particular competition so I set an appointment to get hydrostatic testing at Georgia State University. With calipers I was below 5%, but after the hydrostic test what a disappointment because I was more like 10%. For the next several weeks I restricted calories and did extra cardio work and yet my skin looked like it was painted on already. The only thing I accomplished other than killing myself for no reason was getting 3rd place (my lowest placing in my career).

The following year I stopped using calipers, didn't bother with the hydrostatic test and just used my fingers to pinch skinfold so that I would not know the data, but could sense that my skin was getting thinner.

Now days my estimate is based on seeing an Abdominal (1) or seeing Abdominals (6). At the moment I am at 4

 

[Felt_Rider]

If it is not clear my point in the previous post is that bodyfat percentages are not typically as low as we think they are. Too low and the body will not function quite properly. It was always interesting to me while training female bodybuilders because many of them would not have their monthly cycle for years because their bodyfat levels were low. In general strength levels were usually pretty low during the last few weeks prior to competition because of bodyfat levels and a common observation that joints typically hurt quite a bit. Genetics often plays a huge role in bodyfat setpoint. Unfortunately for me I have that thick skin that was meant for artic temps and doesn't tan well either.

For cycling my goal is to get to that point of loosing as much excess bagage without hindering performance. I haven't found that point yet.