Slightly loose cassette

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Paul, Jan 24, 2003.

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  1. Paul

    Paul Guest

    I have been experiencing a slight click when pushing down on each crank during riding. This only
    occurs in gears 5,4,3,2,1 when on the middle or largest chainring.

    I think that I have tracked this down to the cassette which is slightly loose, if I grab the largest
    sprocket and twist it there is a few mm of lateral movement and a slight click.

    I suspect that what is happening is that when the gears are set in one of the above combinations the
    chain in at a more extreme angle and pulling against larger sprockets causing a slight movement of
    the cassette as the cranks are pushed down (although I'm very inexperienced regarding bikes, so
    could be completely wrong).

    I have had the cassette locknut tightened before and apparently my wheels have a fairly cheap Quando
    hubs meaning that the freewheel can't be replaced (it's a fairly cheapo bike) and that a new wheel
    would be the only option.

    I can live with the slight clicking if it's not doing any harm and wondered whether anyone more
    experienced that myself could suggest whether this would be okay?

    Many thanks in advance for any thoughts,

    Paul.
     
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  2. In article <[email protected]>, Paul <[email protected]> wrote:
    >I have been experiencing a slight click when pushing down on each crank during riding. This only
    >occurs in gears 5,4,3,2,1 when on the middle or largest chainring.
    >
    >I think that I have tracked this down to the cassette which is slightly loose, if I grab the
    >largest sprocket and twist it there is a few mm of lateral movement and a slight click.
    >
    >I suspect that what is happening is that when the gears are set in one of the above combinations
    >the chain in at a more extreme angle and pulling against larger sprockets causing a slight movement
    >of the cassette as the cranks are pushed down (although I'm very inexperienced regarding bikes, so
    >could be completely wrong).
    >
    >I have had the cassette locknut tightened before and apparently my wheels have a fairly cheap
    >Quando hubs meaning that the freewheel can't be replaced (it's a fairly cheapo bike) and that a new
    >wheel would be the only option.
    >
    >I can live with the slight clicking if it's not doing any harm and wondered whether anyone more
    >experienced that myself could suggest whether this would be okay?

    The pessimistic view of this problem is that you have broken a pawl in the freehub. This means
    that however many pawls were designed to support the drive load, you don't have that many any
    more. Generally the next step of the failure is that some time when you are hammering up a hill
    the freehub body will either seize or break free completely and slip forward when the remaining
    pawl(s) give way.

    A seized freehub body will sometimes rip the rear derailleur off the bike (often trashing the frame
    by breaking the rear dropout) because it will not freewheel when expected to - your legs stop moving
    to coast but the cogs keep moving forward, the derailleur takes up the chain slack until it can't
    take any more and then the gory conclusion - unless you stop the bike very quickly you will bend or
    break the derailleur.

    A freehub that breaks free suddenly also sometimes results in the rider going wildly off balance as
    the resistance is suddenly deleted, very much like breaking a chain.

    Neither of these outcomes are a guaranteed catastrophe, but there can be real consequences to the
    failure and it is dangerous. For Tyler Hamilton riding the 2002 Giro, a freehub failure resulted in
    a lot of skin on the pavement, broken shoulder, and most likely loss of the overall victory.

    Please read http://www.velonews.com/race/tour2002/articles/2551.0.html

    --Paul
     
  3. > Neither of these outcomes are a guaranteed catastrophe, but there can be real consequences to the
    > failure and it is dangerous. For Tyler Hamilton riding the 2002 Giro, a freehub failure resulted
    > in a lot of skin on the pavement, broken shoulder, and most likely loss of the overall victory.
    >
    > Please read http://www.velonews.com/race/tour2002/articles/2551.0.html
    >
    > --Paul

    Apawling.
     
  4. Paul

    Paul Guest

    Um, ok, is there an optimistic one?
     
  5. Paul wrote:
    >
    > I have been experiencing a slight click when pushing down on each crank during riding. This only
    > occurs in gears 5,4,3,2,1 when on the middle or largest chainring.
    >
    > I think that I have tracked this down to the cassette which is slightly loose, if I grab the
    > largest sprocket and twist it there is a few mm of lateral movement and a slight click.
    >
    > I suspect that what is happening is that when the gears are set in one of the above combinations
    > the chain in at a more extreme angle and pulling against larger sprockets causing a slight
    > movement of the cassette as the cranks are pushed down (although I'm very inexperienced regarding
    > bikes, so could be completely wrong).
    >
    > I have had the cassette locknut tightened before and apparently my wheels have a fairly cheap
    > Quando hubs meaning that the freewheel can't be replaced (it's a fairly cheapo bike) and that a
    > new wheel would be the only option.
    >
    > I can live with the slight clicking if it's not doing any harm and wondered whether anyone more
    > experienced that myself could suggest whether this would be okay?
    >
    > Many thanks in advance for any thoughts,

    I don't know exactly what you have. I have bought "off-brand" cassettes that had a lockring where
    the threaded section was too long. That meant it didn't matter how tight the locknut was because it
    was binding against something on the inner part of the body rather than against the outermost cog.
    So the answer to that was to "use the right lockring." "A few mm" sounds like an awful lot.

    There is also the old 11t-on-old-freehub tightening problem, but I doubt that is what you have.

    Also, it is one or the other: freewheel or cassette, not both.
     
  6. In article <[email protected]>, Paul <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Um, ok, is there an optimistic one?

    Yes, it might not fail in your lifetime. :)

    Also the freehub body might be loose on the hub shell - sometimes tightenable, sometimes not.

    There may also be some problem with the fit of the cogs or lockring as another poster mentioned. Can
    you still get the freehub to move forward and make that click if you take the cogs off and grab the
    freehub body in your fist?

    --Paul
     
  7. Paul

    Paul Guest

    Thanks for the info. Paul. I'm not exactly adept at cycle mechanics and don't have the appropriate
    tools to remove the cassette. The bike is fairly new so I hope that it's not a freehub problem.

    The guy at my LBS took a look at things when he tightened up the cassette for me (the 11 tooth and
    13 tooth sprockets where very loose) and seemed to think that it was probably the cassette not
    fitting snuggly on the hub, it's a pretty cheap bike and perhaps the freewheel on the Quando hub is
    not manufatured to too high a tolerance. The cassette itself is a relatively cheap Shimano affair
    (an ,CS-HG40-8I 8 speed Megarange 11-34 tooth).

    The back wheel has also had a look over during my last service to check the axle and bearings.

    When the bike is next in for a service I'll make sure that the freehub is checked out.

    Thanks again,

    Kind Regards, Paul
     
  8. In article <[email protected]>, Paul <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Thanks for the info. Paul. I'm not exactly adept at cycle mechanics and don't have the appropriate
    >tools to remove the cassette. The bike is fairly new so I hope that it's not a freehub problem.
    >
    >The guy at my LBS took a look at things when he tightened up the cassette for me (the 11 tooth and
    >13 tooth sprockets where very loose) and seemed to think that it was probably the cassette not
    >fitting snuggly on the hub, it's a pretty cheap bike and perhaps the freewheel on the Quando hub is
    >not manufatured to too high a tolerance. The cassette itself is a relatively cheap Shimano affair
    >(an ,CS-HG40-8I 8 speed Megarange 11-34 tooth).

    Well as one of the previous posters mentioned, you may have a freehub body that is not Hyperglide
    Compact (11-tooth compatible). If that's the case then the mechanic needs to put a 1mm spacer
    underneath the cassette or it's never going to really get tight.

    Refer mechanic to this:

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#hyperdrivec

    --Paul
     
  9. Bruce Lange

    Bruce Lange Guest

    Could be that one of the rivets/bolts holding the cogs together has come loose. If that's the case,
    it won't affect the cassette performance to remove it, but it would stop the click. It would also
    explain the lack of the sound in the smaller (often not bolted together) cogs.
     
  10. Paul

    Paul Guest

    Thanks to everyone for the replies. The mechanic at my LBS doesn't seem to think that it
    needs a spacer.

    I'm beginning to think that it may just be a case of a cheap hub (at 250 UK pounds it's hardly a top
    quality bike). I've come across some reviews of Quando hubs on the Internet and the general
    concensus seem to be that they're cheap 'n cheerful and play in the freehub seems to be a not
    uncommon complaint.

    I guess that as time goes by I'll need to upgrade various components and a will get around to the
    rear wheel at some point.

    Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to reply.

    Kin Regards,

    Paul
     
  11. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "Bruce Lange" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Could be that one of the rivets/bolts holding the cogs together has come loose. If that's the
    > case, it won't affect the cassette performance to remove it, but it would stop the click. It would
    > also explain the lack of the sound in the smaller (often not bolted together) cogs.

    You'd think so, but not. Tightening or just removing the three screws/rivets will have no effect
    vis-a-vis rattling cogs. Those are only a convenience when assembling the cassette on the body.
    (Campagnolo just ships cogs on a nylon carrier instead of adding screws/rivets. Both styles work
    fine. With loose cogs, add another 1/2 minute for assembly. No big deal to _us_ but critical to a
    factory manager)

    When the lockring is tightened, all cogs are pressed between the lockring's face and the lip on the
    back of the cassette body. As someone else pointed out yesterday, this is more likely an 11t start
    cassette on a 12t start body. The overall width is less on the compact ones, such that the lockring
    bottoms out before pressing against the last cog. A spacer under the low gear cures that.

    Less likley, from the OP's description, is a damaged cassette body.

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  12. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "Paul" <the[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Thanks to everyone for the replies. The mechanic at my LBS doesn't seem to think that it needs
    > a spacer.
    >
    > I'm beginning to think that it may just be a case of a cheap hub (at 250
    UK
    > pounds it's hardly a top quality bike). I've come across some reviews of Quando hubs on the
    > Internet and the general concensus seem to be that they're cheap 'n cheerful and play in the
    > freehub seems to be a not
    uncommon
    > complaint.
    >
    > I guess that as time goes by I'll need to upgrade various components and a will get around to the
    > rear wheel at some point.

    I do not know that product but most new hubs in the low end, while maybe not Campagnolo quality,
    benefit greatly from a dollop of grease in the bearings and attention to bearing adjustment. If you
    can resolve your noise problem, give the bearings a dash of love and it will at leats last longer
    than other dry/tight Quando hubs!

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  13. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    Wouldn't this be logical? When the cogs are bolted together, some load can be transferred to other
    parts of the cassette. The Ti hub bodies are pretty soft. A single cog, especially a large one, puts
    a big load on the body surface. You really don't torque the small cogs much. Therefore, having
    larger cogs attached is easier on the freehub body.

    On Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:36:44 -0600, "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Tightening or just removing the three screws/rivets will have no effect vis-a-vis rattling cogs.
    >Those are only a convenience when assembling the cassette on the body.
     
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