Slime Presta tubes

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by meb, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. meb

    meb New Member

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    I tried pumping up a Presta valve Slime tube wheelset and had no success.
    These are factory Slime Presta tubes.

    I pumped these up a year and a half ago, now nogo.
    Wondering if perhaps the Slime has clogged the Presta.
    Anyone know if this becomes an issue with Presta tubes?

    If that is what has happened, is there a remedy such as a chemical or continued pressure at the valve or might that create other problems?
     
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  2. "meb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > I tried pumping up a Presta valve Slime tube wheelset and had no
    > success.
    > These are factory Slime Presta tubes.
    >
    > I pumped these up a year and a half ago, now nogo.
    > Wondering if perhaps the Slime has clogged the Presta.
    > Anyone know if this becomes an issue with Presta tubes?
    >
    > If that is what has happened, is there a remedy such as a chemical or
    > continued pressure at the valve or might that create other problems?
    > meb


    Sorry to hear about your Slime Presta tubes....
    I'm sure you'll find an expert here on this subject.
    Those nasty Goat-heads. ;-)
    -tom
     
  3. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 20:44:59 +1100, meb
    <[email protected]> may have said:

    >
    >I tried pumping up a Presta valve Slime tube wheelset and had no
    >success.
    >These are factory Slime Presta tubes.
    >
    >I pumped these up a year and a half ago, now nogo.
    >Wondering if perhaps the Slime has clogged the Presta.
    >Anyone know if this becomes an issue with Presta tubes?
    >
    >If that is what has happened, is there a remedy such as a chemical or
    >continued pressure at the valve or might that create other problems?


    Presumably, you physically pushed the valves open before trying to
    pump up the tire, correct?

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
    Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  4. On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 20:44:59 +1100, meb
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >I tried pumping up a Presta valve Slime tube wheelset and had no
    >success.
    >These are factory Slime Presta tubes.
    >
    >I pumped these up a year and a half ago, now nogo.
    >Wondering if perhaps the Slime has clogged the Presta.
    >Anyone know if this becomes an issue with Presta tubes?
    >
    >If that is what has happened, is there a remedy such as a chemical or
    >continued pressure at the valve or might that create other problems?


    Dear Meb,

    A stuck Presta valve isn't unusual with Slime tubes. Usually you just
    push down with your thumb and it breaks free.

    If that doesn't work, unscrew the valve assembly with pliers:

    http://i15.tinypic.com/8g8ps2b.jpg

    There are two tiny flats where the valve cap threads on. You can see
    one flat on the silver section near the normal knurled brass nut.
    Everything unscrews in the same direction--valve cap, Presta nut, and
    the whole assembly.

    The guts of the valve may be gummed or clogged with little white
    fibers. You can pull the fibers out with your fingernails, water will
    dissolve the Slime, and a quick huff-and-puff will blow any Slime out
    of the valve stem and back into the tube.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel
     
  5. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 11:50:42 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

    >A stuck Presta valve isn't unusual with Slime tubes. Usually you just
    >push down with your thumb and it breaks free.
    >
    >If that doesn't work, unscrew the valve assembly with pliers:
    >
    > http://i15.tinypic.com/8g8ps2b.jpg


    Not all Presta valves come apart this way, and trying this on some of
    them will distort the valve body enough that the stem will be
    deflected, preventing the valve from being able to seal thereafter.
    (I discovered this experimentally by ruining one of my own, and
    confirmed it on a sample of junked tubes from a shop's trash bin.)


    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  6. On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 13:33:14 -0600, Werehatrack
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 11:50:42 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
    >
    >>A stuck Presta valve isn't unusual with Slime tubes. Usually you just
    >>push down with your thumb and it breaks free.
    >>
    >>If that doesn't work, unscrew the valve assembly with pliers:
    >>
    >> http://i15.tinypic.com/8g8ps2b.jpg

    >
    >Not all Presta valves come apart this way, and trying this on some of
    >them will distort the valve body enough that the stem will be
    >deflected, preventing the valve from being able to seal thereafter.
    >(I discovered this experimentally by ruining one of my own, and
    >confirmed it on a sample of junked tubes from a shop's trash bin.)


    Dear Werehatrack,

    No, most normal Presta valves don't unscrew.

    But all Slime brand tubes do indeed come apart that way, and the
    original poster said: "These are factory Slime Presta tubes."

    When you look at a Slime brand tube's Presta valve, it's easy to see
    that the assembly unscrews--the valve stem is dark brass, while the
    assembly is bright silver, with tiny flats on the threads to grab with
    pliers and unscrew.

    That's how they pump the Slime mixture in at the factory, through the
    wide-open barrel of the empty valve stem. The valve is screwed in
    afterward. You can't pump the Slime with its chopped-up white fibers
    through the tiny opening of an ordinary Presta valve.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel
     
  7. Where's the hatrack writes:

    >> A stuck Presta valve isn't unusual with Slime tubes. Usually you
    >> just push down with your thumb and it breaks free.


    >> If that doesn't work, unscrew the valve assembly with pliers:


    http://i15.tinypic.com/8g8ps2b.jpg

    > Not all Presta valves come apart this way, and trying this on some
    > of them will distort the valve body enough that the stem will be
    > deflected, preventing the valve from being able to seal thereafter.
    > (I discovered this experimentally by ruining one of my own, and
    > confirmed it on a sample of junked tubes from a shop's trash bin.)


    If it's full of slime, it most likely has a removable valve core.
    How do you put slime in a Presta valved tube?

    Jobst Brandt
     
  8. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On 04 Dec 2007 20:02:53 GMT, [email protected] may have
    said:

    >Where's the hatrack writes:
    >
    >>> A stuck Presta valve isn't unusual with Slime tubes. Usually you
    >>> just push down with your thumb and it breaks free.

    >
    >>> If that doesn't work, unscrew the valve assembly with pliers:

    >
    > http://i15.tinypic.com/8g8ps2b.jpg
    >
    >> Not all Presta valves come apart this way, and trying this on some
    >> of them will distort the valve body enough that the stem will be
    >> deflected, preventing the valve from being able to seal thereafter.
    >> (I discovered this experimentally by ruining one of my own, and
    >> confirmed it on a sample of junked tubes from a shop's trash bin.)

    >
    >If it's full of slime, it most likely has a removable valve core.


    The only slimed Prestas of my direct experience unscrewed at the base,
    not at the top. They had extra-long stems. The valve on those was
    not separable from the body. I don't know if they were "factory
    Slimed", but the goo inside was the color and consistency of the
    genuine Slime product. The results I obtained from them are part of
    the reason that I have not bought any subsequently.

    >How do you put slime in a Presta valved tube?


    Well, since you ask, I don't.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
    Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  9. this is OT and i haven't had flats (knock on wood)
    since i switched to these and Mich RR2Pro in the rear,
    but i got to ask:
    how much mess there is to cleanup when these go off?
    is wheel/tire easy to clean off the slime? does slime harden
    when exposed to air?
     
  10. On 2007-12-04, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
    > this is OT and i haven't had flats (knock on wood)
    > since i switched to these and Mich RR2Pro in the rear,
    > but i got to ask:
    > how much mess there is to cleanup when these go off?
    > is wheel/tire easy to clean off the slime? does slime harden
    > when exposed to air?


    In a full blowout, things get a bit messy, but I've been able to clean up
    with some shop towels or wet wipes without much difficulty.

    The bigger worry in such a situation is that the freed Slime acts as a
    spectacular lubricant betwixt the tire and rim, a place one generally does
    not wish to have lubricant. The tire will squirm rather badly, which can
    result in a crash if you aren't able to slow down and get some stability in
    time. This has only happened to me once, but it's worth keeping in mind.

    --

    Kristian Zoerhoff
    [email protected]
     
  11. Where's the hatrack writes:

    >>>> A stuck Presta valve isn't unusual with Slime tubes. Usually you
    >>>> just push down with your thumb and it breaks free.


    >>>> If that doesn't work, unscrew the valve assembly with pliers:


    http://i15.tinypic.com/8g8ps2b.jpg

    >>> Not all Presta valves come apart this way, and trying this on some
    >>> of them will distort the valve body enough that the stem will be
    >>> deflected, preventing the valve from being able to seal
    >>> thereafter. (I discovered this experimentally by ruining one of
    >>> my own, and confirmed it on a sample of junked tubes from a shop's
    >>> trash bin.)


    >> If it's full of slime, it most likely has a removable valve core.


    > The only slimed Prestas of my direct experience unscrewed at the
    > base, not at the top. They had extra-long stems. The valve on
    > those was not separable from the body. I don't know if they were
    > "factory Slimed", but the goo inside was the color and consistency
    > of the genuine Slime product. The results I obtained from them are
    > part of the reason that I have not bought any subsequently.


    I've never seen such a valve stem. Would you please post a picture or
    give a link to a web site that shows one?

    >> How do you put slime in a Presta valved tube?


    > Well, since you ask, I don't.


    So I should have asked, how one puts slime in a Presta valved tube?

    Jobst Brandt
     
  12. On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 12:52:32 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:

    >this is OT and i haven't had flats (knock on wood)
    >since i switched to these and Mich RR2Pro in the rear,
    >but i got to ask:
    >how much mess there is to cleanup when these go off?
    >is wheel/tire easy to clean off the slime? does slime harden
    >when exposed to air?


    Dear S,

    Short answer, don't worry, the stuff wipes off with a finger, even
    when dried.

    The faintly tacky green fluid is full of chopped-up white fibers.

    Think of pouring a gallon of molasses and noodles into a sink.

    With a pinhole from a goathead thorn, my Slime tube may show nothing
    but a tiny wisp of white fiber sticking out of the tread. The drop or
    two of green fluid wiped off on the pavement, but there's a clog of
    fiber and faintly gummy green stuff jammed in the tiny hole in the
    tube and tire.

    Or the tire may leak a single drop of vivid green Slime. The tire is
    still holding air, but that drop of green makes it hard to pretend
    that I just need to pump the tire up.

    Or the tire can go whoosh-whoosh-whoosh and spray the red frame with
    an artistic splatter of green Jackson-Pollock-style imagery. Sometimes
    it will seal and hold all the way home, sometimes it will seal and
    then fail after a mile, and sometimes it's flat before I can stop.

    If a tire creeps off an overheated rim just before you reach the
    Presta valve . . .

    http://i18.tinypic.com/4t9hswg.jpg

    That splat came out of this hole . . .

    http://i19.tinypic.com/53r4dp0.jpg

    But even that mess wiped off with one hand, followed by a quick swipe
    on the roadside grass.

    Here's a tire that sat overnight after it almost won an argument with
    a staple:

    http://i9.tinypic.com/5xsbmg1.jpg

    You cansee some of the staple in the middle green spot in the center
    of the tread.

    Anyway, the Slime wipes off with a finger. If you leave it to dry on
    your frame, a damp paper towel wipes it off.

    It doesn't eat paint, rot inner tubes, turn your skin red, or anything
    else terrible.

    In fact, the stuff is technically edible, being mostly a substance
    often used in commercial ice cream:

    http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/c561833dc8d35cec

    Slime won't seal large punctures, but it can often plug the goathead
    thorn pinholes that I get. My impression is that most posters don't
    get nearly as many flats as I do (50 so far this year), so it's hard
    to recommend it to people who don't ride where I do.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel
     
  13. On 04 Dec 2007 23:25:20 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

    >Where's the hatrack writes:
    >
    >>>>> A stuck Presta valve isn't unusual with Slime tubes. Usually you
    >>>>> just push down with your thumb and it breaks free.

    >
    >>>>> If that doesn't work, unscrew the valve assembly with pliers:

    >
    > http://i15.tinypic.com/8g8ps2b.jpg
    >
    >>>> Not all Presta valves come apart this way, and trying this on some
    >>>> of them will distort the valve body enough that the stem will be
    >>>> deflected, preventing the valve from being able to seal
    >>>> thereafter. (I discovered this experimentally by ruining one of
    >>>> my own, and confirmed it on a sample of junked tubes from a shop's
    >>>> trash bin.)

    >
    >>> If it's full of slime, it most likely has a removable valve core.

    >
    >> The only slimed Prestas of my direct experience unscrewed at the
    >> base, not at the top. They had extra-long stems. The valve on
    >> those was not separable from the body. I don't know if they were
    >> "factory Slimed", but the goo inside was the color and consistency
    >> of the genuine Slime product. The results I obtained from them are
    >> part of the reason that I have not bought any subsequently.

    >
    >I've never seen such a valve stem. Would you please post a picture or
    >give a link to a web site that shows one?
    >
    >>> How do you put slime in a Presta valved tube?

    >
    >> Well, since you ask, I don't.

    >
    >So I should have asked, how one puts slime in a Presta valved tube?
    >
    >Jobst Brandt


    Dear Jobst,

    Since you ask . . .

    I knew a fellow who was familiar with Slime in bottles, the kind sold
    in hardware stores.

    He didn't know that pre-filled, ready-to-use Slime Presta-valve tubes
    are available.

    So he made a small hole in his ordinary tube, squirted the Slime in,
    patched the tube, and did fine. He switched to factory tubes as soon
    as he found out about them.

    Like you, I can't imagine forcing a few ounces of green Slime full of
    chopped-up fibers through a Presta valve stem that still has a Presta
    valve rattling around inside it. The stuff just won't go through such
    a tiny opening.

    In fact, part of the fun of using Slime tubes is dealing with clogged
    valves. I put a pump on the plugged valve, blow the stuff back into
    the tube with a stroke or two, and deflate it more carefully.

    If I can't blow a clogged Presta valve open with the pump, I unscrew
    the valve assembly, pick the fibers out of it, blow it clean with lung
    power, put it back together, and pump the tube up.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel
     
  14. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On 04 Dec 2007 23:25:20 GMT, [email protected] may have
    said:

    >Where's the hatrack writes:
    >
    >> The only slimed Prestas of my direct experience unscrewed at the
    >> base, not at the top. They had extra-long stems. The valve on
    >> those was not separable from the body. I don't know if they were
    >> "factory Slimed", but the goo inside was the color and consistency
    >> of the genuine Slime product. The results I obtained from them are
    >> part of the reason that I have not bought any subsequently.

    >
    >I've never seen such a valve stem. Would you please post a picture or
    >give a link to a web site that shows one?


    I would if I could, but those slimed tubes hit the waste bin long ago.
    I may or may not have an unslimed long-stem Presta tube in the parts
    pile with a base-demount design; I'll check.

    >>> How do you put slime in a Presta valved tube?

    >
    >> Well, since you ask, I don't.

    >
    >So I should have asked, how one puts slime in a Presta valved tube?


    As noted elsewhere, if the stem or core doesn't unscrew, then putting
    it in through a patchable slit is an inelegant alternative that works
    up to a point. I've heard that tactic described for Presta tubes that
    have non-removable valves several times. Usually, though, it's
    accompanied by the observation that it's really better to get a tube
    that has a valve that you can unscrew and clean, because if the slime
    gooks up the valve, you could end up with a leak that you can't fix in
    the field. On the gripping hand, I've also heard someone relate that
    they cleared such a clog by forcing water through the valve from their
    water bottle, using a runner-style squirt cap and a short piece of
    narrow soda straw.

    For me, the incidence of flats is not high enough to make the hassles
    of Slime worth the tradeoff, so I avoid it.

    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
    Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  15. On Dec 4, 4:01 pm, Kristian M Zoerhoff <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    > The bigger worry in such a situation is that the freed Slime acts as a
    > spectacular lubricant betwixt the tire and rim, a place one generally does
    > not wish to have lubricant. The tire will squirm rather badly, which can
    > result in a crash if you aren't able to slow down and get some stability in
    > time. This has only happened to me once, but it's worth keeping in mind.
    >

    thanks. as i get more confident in the capability of Road Race2 Pro
    i lean more and more, so i guess i'll skip slimy tubes in front on the
    next change.
    what tubes resist punctures well but don't have slime in them?

    Carl Fogel wrote:
    > Slime won't seal large punctures, but it can often plug the goathead
    > thorn pinholes that I get. My impression is that most posters don't
    > get nearly as many flats as I do (50 so far this year), so it's hard
    > to recommend it to people who don't ride where I do.


    i had a lot of flats before the last tire swap. looks like you need to
    start searching for a tire of your dreams :)
     
  16. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:48:56 -0700, [email protected] may have
    said:

    >Slime won't seal large punctures, but it can often plug the goathead
    >thorn pinholes that I get. My impression is that most posters don't
    >get nearly as many flats as I do (50 so far this year), so it's hard
    >to recommend it to people who don't ride where I do.


    Ah, so at last the truth is out; what you really need is a better
    place to ride...



    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
    Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  17. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 17:38:17 -0800 (PST), [email protected] may have
    said:

    >what tubes resist punctures well but don't have slime in them?


    In general: Thick ones, and tubes inside tires equipped with a tire
    liner, and tubes inside tires that are designed to be hard to
    puncture. These alternatives all increase the rolling resistance to
    some degree, however. I can't tell you whether the increase is enough
    to make a difference that's important to you.

    Among other approaches, nondeflatable tube substitutes and tires have
    their adherents and their detractors as well. I am among the latter;
    I can't stand the things.


    >Carl Fogel wrote:
    >> Slime won't seal large punctures, but it can often plug the goathead
    >> thorn pinholes that I get. My impression is that most posters don't
    >> get nearly as many flats as I do (50 so far this year), so it's hard
    >> to recommend it to people who don't ride where I do.

    >
    >i had a lot of flats before the last tire swap. looks like you need to
    >start searching for a tire of your dreams :)



    --
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
    Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  18. On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:45:11 -0600, Werehatrack
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:48:56 -0700, [email protected] may have
    >said:
    >
    >>Slime won't seal large punctures, but it can often plug the goathead
    >>thorn pinholes that I get. My impression is that most posters don't
    >>get nearly as many flats as I do (50 so far this year), so it's hard
    >>to recommend it to people who don't ride where I do.

    >
    >Ah, so at last the truth is out; what you really need is a better
    >place to ride...


    Dear Werehatrack,

    Sorry, I should have written " . . . hard to recommend it to unlucky
    people who don't ride where I do."

    Speaking of unlucky, I didn't have my camera out when a bald eagle
    decided to fly up past me this afternoon, looking as picturesque as an
    ad for the Post Office.

    It didn't even have the grace to fly _away_ from me. The damn thing
    flapped past about thirty feet overhead while I was desperately trying
    to get the camera out and take a picture.

    So there I was, camera out, lens snout extended, power turned on, and
    finger poised to take a picture as the wretched bird disappeared over
    the next ridge, hundreds of yards away.

    I just stood there, muttering, since it's hard to get close to the
    eagles, who are shy and like to perch on dead cottonwoods so far away
    that a telephoto lens is needed.

    There were no other eagles visible in the trees in the gully below, so
    I put my camera back in its case and put the case back in my waist-bag
    and was about to ride off when . . .

    A hawk that had been hiding down in the same gully screamed and began
    fighting its way up toward me into the brisk chinook that let me ride
    in my shorts at 70F.

    I fumbled the camera out again as the stupid hawk did a figure-eight
    around me, but by the time I pushed the button, the hawk had swooped
    away for this ridiculous, near-invisible, off-level picture:

    http://i19.tinypic.com/7wyjrra.jpg

    Can't see the hawk? Here's the detail from the center of the picture:

    http://i19.tinypic.com/6y5ozg2.jpg

    But as soon as I lowered the camera and put it away, the hawk swooped
    back again and hung around long enough for a slightly better picture:

    http://i4.tinypic.com/7x3kjuv.jpg

    I was so annoyed by the pair of elusive birds that I almost didn't
    stop to take a picture of these two bathing beauties:

    http://i9.tinypic.com/85n8l7o.jpg

    Hi, girls! That discarded tire on the shore line doesn't really help
    the photo. Hmmm . . . maybe you're right, and I need to find a better
    place to ride?

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel
     
  19. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > Kristian M Zoerhoff <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> The bigger worry in such a situation is that the freed Slime acts as a
    >> spectacular lubricant betwixt the tire and rim, a place one generally does
    >> not wish to have lubricant. The tire will squirm rather badly, which can
    >> result in a crash if you aren't able to slow down and get some stability in
    >> time. This has only happened to me once, but it's worth keeping in mind.


    [email protected] wrote:
    > thanks. as i get more confident in the capability of Road Race2 Pro
    > i lean more and more, so i guess i'll skip slimy tubes in front on the
    > next change.
    > what tubes resist punctures well but don't have slime in them?


    > Carl Fogel wrote:
    >> Slime won't seal large punctures, but it can often plug the goathead
    >> thorn pinholes that I get. My impression is that most posters don't
    >> get nearly as many flats as I do (50 so far this year), so it's hard
    >> to recommend it to people who don't ride where I do.


    [email protected] wrote:
    > i had a lot of flats before the last tire swap. looks like you need to
    > start searching for a tire of your dreams :)


    [email protected] wrote:
    > what tubes resist punctures well but don't have slime in them?


    For sizes appropriate to your Michelins, tubes are 'of a group' in that
    regard. Double-thick ("TR") tubes seem not to be made in those sizes. As
    Chalo advised recently, matching the tube width is a help ( i.e., avoid
    a 700-18 tube in a 700-25 tire) and brands do vary quite a bit by width
    within one nominal size.

    If you ride in goathead country, I have no snappy ideas. For
    goathead-less riding, something like 3-5 flats a year from daily riding
    is pretty much the normal baseline experience.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    www.yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  20. On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:48:27 -0600, A Muzi <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >[email protected] wrote:
    >> thanks. as i get more confident in the capability of Road Race2 Pro


    [snip]

    >For sizes appropriate to your Michelins, tubes are 'of a group' in that
    >regard. Double-thick ("TR") tubes seem not to be made in those sizes.


    Dear Andrew,

    Depending on how narrow the Michelin tire is, these Kenda
    thorn-resistant tubes might fit, being allegedly for 700x20~23c:


    http://www.blueskycycling.com/product3476_53_-Kenda-Thorn-Resistant-Tube.htm

    How much thicker tubes help is another matter. Generally, they are
    thought to help with pinholes from thorns, but not much worse.

    Most riders suffer flats so rarely that random variation practically
    guarantees apparent improvement if they try one or two different
    remedies.

    I didn't have a single flat tire from July 29th to September 4th, a
    38-ride streak during the height of goathead season that DiMaggio
    would have been proud of.

    When discussing my feat with friends, I modestly attributed my
    flat-free August to my keen-eyed alertness and fantastic reflexes.

    They suspected--but couldn't prove--that I never dodged a single
    goathead.

    Ugly rumors of drugs were voiced, but I did it on nothing but
    chocolate doughnuts and Coca-Cola.

    Now all I need is a good explanation for the 18 flats in the next
    three months.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel
     
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