Slime tube demo

[jim beam]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 05:56:45 -0700, jim beam
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> My rear tire held all the way home, dropping from 120 psi to 90 psi
>>> without me even noticing it on the smooth pavement (d'oh!), but it
>>> looks as if I need to put in a fresh tube and patch this one:
>>>
>>> http://i9.tinypic.com/5xsbmg1.jpg
>>>
>>> I just happened to glance at it this evening. That lurid green stuff
>>> doesn't leave any room for excuses about just topping up the tire.
>>> Looks like flat #16 in 120 rides so far this year, about one per week.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Carl Fogel
>> carl, i'm interested - what brands and models of tires have you tried in
>> your pursuit of puncture resistance?
>
> Dear Jim,
>
> I used cheap, heavy 27 & 1/4 inch tires back when I had such rims.
> They proved vulnerable to goatheads, even with thorn-resistant thicker
> tubes. Mr. Tuffy plastic liners seemed to help a little, but goatheads
> still went through the sidewalls (and occasionally the plastic
> strips).
>
> When I switched to 700c, I began using Slime tubes with tires from
> Performance that had Kevlar beads and belts--the Forte house brand
> 700cx26 didn't cost too much, I could roll a spare up in my seat bag,
> and the slight extra thickness of the Kevlar belt theoretically stops
> some goatheads short, while rolling better than Mr. Tuffy strips.
>
> Alas, Performance has stopped selling the tan sidewall Kevlar bead and
> belt Forte 700x26 tires, so I just started trying some alleged 700x25
> Forte tires with a steel bead, a Kevlar belt, and black sidewalls.
>
> I dislike them.
>
> First, they're much harder to get on and off the rim, which I do more
> often than some people, and won't roll up to fit in my seat bag.
>
> Next, the damn things aren't 25 mm wide--they're closer to 22 mm. I
> measured because I managed a rare impact flat on my first ride. The
> pinch flat came as I turned into my driveway, so I knew that something
> was wrong. After that, I pumped them up to 120 psi instead of 110 psi.
> (Their sole advantage is that they pump up more quickly and easily
> than my older, wider tires.)
>
> Finally, the black sidewalls make it much harder to glance down and
> back and see if the tire is going soft with a slow leak, something
> that I also do more often than some people. Unlike a solid black tire,
> a tan sidewall shows up nicely against the asphalt if it starts to
> sag.
>
> There are thicker tires, tougher tires, other kinds of slime, and
> various plastic liners, but I'm used to a couple of flats per month.
> If I want to stop the insanity, I can either take Jobst's amusing
> advice (don't ride there) or else strap some MTB knobbies onto my
> rims, add thorn-resistant tubes, tire liners, and some Slime, and
> trundle along like the poor devils I see out in the goathead hell of
> Pueblo West, where nothing else seems to work.
>
> Since I was replacing my rear tube and had the pump in my hand, I
> checked my front tire. No green Slime, but it's down 10 psi in a few
> days, so it's time to replace that tube and find the tiny goathead
> leak.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

i was interested to see if fogel labs have had a chance to test tires
that are alleged to be puncture resistant rather than standard tires.
i've had great luck with hutchinsons in this regard.

 

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 19:59:41 -0700, jim beam
<[email protected]> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 05:56:45 -0700, jim beam
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> My rear tire held all the way home, dropping from 120 psi to 90 psi
>>>> without me even noticing it on the smooth pavement (d'oh!), but it
>>>> looks as if I need to put in a fresh tube and patch this one:
>>>>
>>>> http://i9.tinypic.com/5xsbmg1.jpg
>>>>
>>>> I just happened to glance at it this evening. That lurid green stuff
>>>> doesn't leave any room for excuses about just topping up the tire.
>>>> Looks like flat #16 in 120 rides so far this year, about one per week.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Carl Fogel
>>> carl, i'm interested - what brands and models of tires have you tried in
>>> your pursuit of puncture resistance?
>>
>> Dear Jim,
>>
>> I used cheap, heavy 27 & 1/4 inch tires back when I had such rims.
>> They proved vulnerable to goatheads, even with thorn-resistant thicker
>> tubes. Mr. Tuffy plastic liners seemed to help a little, but goatheads
>> still went through the sidewalls (and occasionally the plastic
>> strips).
>>
>> When I switched to 700c, I began using Slime tubes with tires from
>> Performance that had Kevlar beads and belts--the Forte house brand
>> 700cx26 didn't cost too much, I could roll a spare up in my seat bag,
>> and the slight extra thickness of the Kevlar belt theoretically stops
>> some goatheads short, while rolling better than Mr. Tuffy strips.
>>
>> Alas, Performance has stopped selling the tan sidewall Kevlar bead and
>> belt Forte 700x26 tires, so I just started trying some alleged 700x25
>> Forte tires with a steel bead, a Kevlar belt, and black sidewalls.
>>
>> I dislike them.
>>
>> First, they're much harder to get on and off the rim, which I do more
>> often than some people, and won't roll up to fit in my seat bag.
>>
>> Next, the damn things aren't 25 mm wide--they're closer to 22 mm. I
>> measured because I managed a rare impact flat on my first ride. The
>> pinch flat came as I turned into my driveway, so I knew that something
>> was wrong. After that, I pumped them up to 120 psi instead of 110 psi.
>> (Their sole advantage is that they pump up more quickly and easily
>> than my older, wider tires.)
>>
>> Finally, the black sidewalls make it much harder to glance down and
>> back and see if the tire is going soft with a slow leak, something
>> that I also do more often than some people. Unlike a solid black tire,
>> a tan sidewall shows up nicely against the asphalt if it starts to
>> sag.
>>
>> There are thicker tires, tougher tires, other kinds of slime, and
>> various plastic liners, but I'm used to a couple of flats per month.
>> If I want to stop the insanity, I can either take Jobst's amusing
>> advice (don't ride there) or else strap some MTB knobbies onto my
>> rims, add thorn-resistant tubes, tire liners, and some Slime, and
>> trundle along like the poor devils I see out in the goathead hell of
>> Pueblo West, where nothing else seems to work.
>>
>> Since I was replacing my rear tube and had the pump in my hand, I
>> checked my front tire. No green Slime, but it's down 10 psi in a few
>> days, so it's time to replace that tube and find the tiny goathead
>> leak.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carl Fogel
>
>i was interested to see if fogel labs have had a chance to test tires
>that are alleged to be puncture resistant rather than standard tires.
>i've had great luck with hutchinsons in this regard.

Dear Jim,

While I haven't tried many tires, I suspect that luck is a large part
of puncture resistance.

The only things that are going to prevent punctures are thickness and
toughness.

As Jobst has pointed out, woven Kevlar belts aren't going to offer
much more resistance to pointy things like goathead thorns than steel
wool offers to a darning needle--the goatheads go right through my
Kevlar belts, just as hunting knives go through the Kevlar vests of
people who fatally confuse bullet-resistant with knife-proof.

But the extra thickness of the Kevlar belt does stop a lot of
goatheads. The thorns are just short enough that I routinely dig them
out of my tire. No green drop or hiss, no problem.

But most riders aren't running over pointy little goatheads. My
impression is that you guys get a flat now and then from glass shards
or pieces of metal or rock chips. But unless you ride the same route,
day in and day out, as I do, and expect a flat every two weeks, you
probably face such random dangers that it's hard to tell what's going
on.

Note the post from Tiborg, who's concerned because he had two flats in
8,000 miles and 16 months. He probably had a lot more flats earlier,
since he mentioned using increasingly flat-resistant tires. But his
two flats with impressively flat resistant tires were caused by a
piece of broken chain (yikes!) and by a piece of glass going through a
badly worn tire.

I see that Performance's cheapest Hutchinson road tire has a kevlar
belt (click on the specs):

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=23651&subcategory_ID=5420

I wouldn't be surprised if the Hutchinson tire does indeed reduce
common flats by 50%, either by the added thickness stopping thin but
short debris or by the tough Kevlar stopping bigger chunks of road
nastiness. But I expect that any other Kevlar belt tire would do about
the same. The thicker, the better, but the more they roll like heavy
mattresses.

To illustrate how much luck matters, I once hit something descending
at 40 mph on the gentle highway curve on my daily ride. Nothing
happened after the sharp jolt, so I just rode home.

I suspect that I hit a small but ugly piece of sharp metal.

When I looked at my front tire, I found that something had cut
sideways through my cheap, thick, heavy 27 & 1/4 inch tire for about
half an inch on the sidewall. Then it cut through my plastic Mr. Tuffy
tire liner. Finally, it sliced about half-way through my thick
thorn-resistant tube.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[jim beam]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 19:59:41 -0700, jim beam
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 05:56:45 -0700, jim beam
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> My rear tire held all the way home, dropping from 120 psi to 90 psi
>>>>> without me even noticing it on the smooth pavement (d'oh!), but it
>>>>> looks as if I need to put in a fresh tube and patch this one:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://i9.tinypic.com/5xsbmg1.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> I just happened to glance at it this evening. That lurid green stuff
>>>>> doesn't leave any room for excuses about just topping up the tire.
>>>>> Looks like flat #16 in 120 rides so far this year, about one per week.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl Fogel
>>>> carl, i'm interested - what brands and models of tires have you tried in
>>>> your pursuit of puncture resistance?
>>> Dear Jim,
>>>
>>> I used cheap, heavy 27 & 1/4 inch tires back when I had such rims.
>>> They proved vulnerable to goatheads, even with thorn-resistant thicker
>>> tubes. Mr. Tuffy plastic liners seemed to help a little, but goatheads
>>> still went through the sidewalls (and occasionally the plastic
>>> strips).
>>>
>>> When I switched to 700c, I began using Slime tubes with tires from
>>> Performance that had Kevlar beads and belts--the Forte house brand
>>> 700cx26 didn't cost too much, I could roll a spare up in my seat bag,
>>> and the slight extra thickness of the Kevlar belt theoretically stops
>>> some goatheads short, while rolling better than Mr. Tuffy strips.
>>>
>>> Alas, Performance has stopped selling the tan sidewall Kevlar bead and
>>> belt Forte 700x26 tires, so I just started trying some alleged 700x25
>>> Forte tires with a steel bead, a Kevlar belt, and black sidewalls.
>>>
>>> I dislike them.
>>>
>>> First, they're much harder to get on and off the rim, which I do more
>>> often than some people, and won't roll up to fit in my seat bag.
>>>
>>> Next, the damn things aren't 25 mm wide--they're closer to 22 mm. I
>>> measured because I managed a rare impact flat on my first ride. The
>>> pinch flat came as I turned into my driveway, so I knew that something
>>> was wrong. After that, I pumped them up to 120 psi instead of 110 psi.
>>> (Their sole advantage is that they pump up more quickly and easily
>>> than my older, wider tires.)
>>>
>>> Finally, the black sidewalls make it much harder to glance down and
>>> back and see if the tire is going soft with a slow leak, something
>>> that I also do more often than some people. Unlike a solid black tire,
>>> a tan sidewall shows up nicely against the asphalt if it starts to
>>> sag.
>>>
>>> There are thicker tires, tougher tires, other kinds of slime, and
>>> various plastic liners, but I'm used to a couple of flats per month.
>>> If I want to stop the insanity, I can either take Jobst's amusing
>>> advice (don't ride there) or else strap some MTB knobbies onto my
>>> rims, add thorn-resistant tubes, tire liners, and some Slime, and
>>> trundle along like the poor devils I see out in the goathead hell of
>>> Pueblo West, where nothing else seems to work.
>>>
>>> Since I was replacing my rear tube and had the pump in my hand, I
>>> checked my front tire. No green Slime, but it's down 10 psi in a few
>>> days, so it's time to replace that tube and find the tiny goathead
>>> leak.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Carl Fogel
>> i was interested to see if fogel labs have had a chance to test tires
>> that are alleged to be puncture resistant rather than standard tires.
>> i've had great luck with hutchinsons in this regard.
>
> Dear Jim,
>
> While I haven't tried many tires, I suspect that luck is a large part
> of puncture resistance.

i used to think that. but now i've discovered otherwise.


>
> The only things that are going to prevent punctures are thickness and
> toughness.

that sounds jobstian. the casing has /everything/ to do with puncture
resistance. car tires hardly ever flat these days now they use radial
belts. back in the days of bias ply, flats were frequent, though tread
depth was the same.


>
> As Jobst has pointed out, woven Kevlar belts aren't going to offer
> much more resistance to pointy things like goathead thorns than steel
> wool offers to a darning needle--the goatheads go right through my
> Kevlar belts, just as hunting knives go through the Kevlar vests of
> people who fatally confuse bullet-resistant with knife-proof.

for this situation, i expect you're right. but what is the price of not
bothering to experiment?


>
> But the extra thickness of the Kevlar belt does stop a lot of
> goatheads. The thorns are just short enough that I routinely dig them
> out of my tire. No green drop or hiss, no problem.
>
> But most riders aren't running over pointy little goatheads. My
> impression is that you guys get a flat now and then from glass shards
> or pieces of metal or rock chips. But unless you ride the same route,
> day in and day out, as I do, and expect a flat every two weeks, you
> probably face such random dangers that it's hard to tell what's going
> on.

not hard to tell what's going on when you commute the same route every
day when one tire punctures 2 or 3 times a week, every week, and
another, same route, same conditions, doesn't.


>
> Note the post from Tiborg, who's concerned because he had two flats in
> 8,000 miles and 16 months. He probably had a lot more flats earlier,
> since he mentioned using increasingly flat-resistant tires. But his
> two flats with impressively flat resistant tires were caused by a
> piece of broken chain (yikes!) and by a piece of glass going through a
> badly worn tire.
>
> I see that Performance's cheapest Hutchinson road tire has a kevlar
> belt (click on the specs):
>
> http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=23651&subcategory_ID=5420
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if the Hutchinson tire does indeed reduce
> common flats by 50%, either by the added thickness stopping thin but
> short debris or by the tough Kevlar stopping bigger chunks of road
> nastiness. But I expect that any other Kevlar belt tire would do about
> the same. The thicker, the better, but the more they roll like heavy
> mattresses.

but the price is such that it's worth experiment! i have and the
results are striking.

bottom line, i'm impressed with a tire that can have multiple pieces of
glass embedded, the carcass slashed open for about 20mm through to the
kevlar so that inches of thread hang out, but without penetration, and
have packing staples punched through the rubber so they deflect and
re-emerge out of the casing, again without penetration. all these have
been survived by the hutchinsons, not by the michelins or continentals i
have used for comparison.


>
> To illustrate how much luck matters, I once hit something descending
> at 40 mph on the gentle highway curve on my daily ride. Nothing
> happened after the sharp jolt, so I just rode home.
>
> I suspect that I hit a small but ugly piece of sharp metal.
>
> When I looked at my front tire, I found that something had cut
> sideways through my cheap, thick, heavy 27 & 1/4 inch tire for about
> half an inch on the sidewall. Then it cut through my plastic Mr. Tuffy
> tire liner. Finally, it sliced about half-way through my thick
> thorn-resistant tube.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

 

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 22:12:47 -0700, jim beam
<[email protected]> wrote:

[snip]

>not hard to tell what's going on when you commute the same route every
>day when one tire punctures 2 or 3 times a week, every week, and
>another, same route, same conditions, doesn't.

[snip]

Dear Jim,

I'm impressed by the idea of a commuter with a route that makes him
liable to 100 to 150 flat tires per year--and glad that I lead a more
sheltered life.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[datakoll]

On Jun 4, 10:46 pm, jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > Carl Fogel writes:
>
> >> My rear tire held all the way home, dropping from 120 psi to 90 psi
> >> without me even noticing it on the smooth pavement (d'oh!), but it
> >> looks as if I need to put in a fresh tube and patch this one:
>
> > http://i9.tinypic.com/5xsbmg1.jpg
>
> >> I just happened to glance at it this evening. That lurid green stuff
> >> doesn't leave any room for excuses about just topping up the tire.
> >> Looks like flat #16 in 120 rides so far this year, about one per
> >> week.
>
> > Although I have not used Slime, I had opportunity to use something
> > that came along before slime, and that is milk. Years ago on my last
> > ride in the alps using Clement tubulars, I discovered that the soft
> > cloth inside the tire that prevents the condom-thin latex tube from
> > chafing on the casing selvedge or stitching had been improperly
> > installed so that in time, pin holes developed requiring repeated
> > pumping.
>
> > On the last day of the tour, having no spare tire anymore as I
> > descended the Klausen Pass, I realized this was not working so I
> > stopped at a milking shed, got some rich Swiss milk and put a shot
> > into my tire using the tire pump. This stopped the leaks that were
> > everywhere and I finished the trip, and packed up my bicycle for the
> > return home.
>
> > The following week I took a bunch of riders on some rough roads, still
> > not having replaced the bad tire. As we got back on pavement, a
> > rupture in the rear tire casing gave way, spraying the others with
> > rancid milk. That was less a problem than the butter inside the tube
> > that, as slime, is a good lubricant. On a straight and level road
> > with little crown, I slid all over the road to come to a barely
> > controlled stop.
>
> > If you use slime and happen to get a blowout, expect to crash.
>
> ok, let's distill this a little:
>
> "Although I have not used Slime, ... [blah] ... If you use slime and
> happen to get a blowout, expect to crash."
>
> why you can't just /resist/ pontificating on subjects on which you have
> no direct experience, and defer to those that do?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

BEAMER! j. brandt uses slime. he's yanking our cord.

 

[datakoll]

does the author have anything to offer here? if so, what is the nature
of the discussion?
the author suggests that he does uses slime liners. if he used liners
the sealant would not pump from the tire.
suggesting that slime pumps from a tire with a liner installed is odd
not normal occurance.
what is odd that 25 posts devote time to discussing what?
maybe I miss the flow here? it's all metaphor?

 

[jim beam]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 22:12:47 -0700, jim beam
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> not hard to tell what's going on when you commute the same route every
>> day when one tire punctures 2 or 3 times a week, every week, and
>> another, same route, same conditions, doesn't.
>
> [snip]
>
> Dear Jim,
>
> I'm impressed by the idea of a commuter with a route that makes him
> liable to 100 to 150 flat tires per year--and glad that I lead a more
> sheltered life.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

doesn't the broken-bottle-on-the-bike-path fairy visit your neck of the
woods? somewhat generous in mine.

 

[datakoll]

> doesn't the broken-bottle-on-the-bike-path fairy visit your neck of the
> woods? somewhat generous in mine.- Hide quoted text -

the bike carries day glo orange poster paper hung on duct tape front,
rear, and off the day pack. taking the poster paper off to scrape
glass up and throw onto the nabs lawns is primo.

 

[jim beam]

datakoll wrote:
>> doesn't the broken-bottle-on-the-bike-path fairy visit your neck of the
>> woods? somewhat generous in mine.- Hide quoted text -
>
> the bike carries day glo orange poster paper hung on duct tape front,
> rear, and off the day pack. taking the poster paper off to scrape
> glass up and throw onto the nabs lawns is primo.
>
>
your "nabs" must /love/ you!

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per jim beam:
>"nabs"

?
--
PeteCresswell

 

[Tom Nakashima]

"jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> doesn't the broken-bottle-on-the-bike-path fairy visit your neck of the
> woods? somewhat generous in mine.

That would be equivalent to running over one of those ketchup
packets.
-tom

 

[jim beam]

Tom Nakashima wrote:
> "jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> doesn't the broken-bottle-on-the-bike-path fairy visit your neck of the
>> woods? somewhat generous in mine.
>
> That would be equivalent to running over one of those ketchup
> packets.
> -tom
>
>
odd - i've never had a tire penetrated by one of those...