small group rides

[leanman]

after reading replies from my few previous posts, i thing i am getting a bit fitter doing the prescribed 20 minute very hard tempo on my trainer once a week.
i still cant pull thru going into the wind on my sunday hard ride, but i can hold wheels no matter how fast we go. 35 mph at some points today, and 23mph into a strong head wind.. i can climb with my 2 young fast training partners , but still lack the strength to pull thru in a cross wind , or a head wind. i guess the few guys i ride with are just better than me and they are 15 years younger, but that aint no excuse. i plan on training my tail off so i'll be able to pull thru in the wind. we had a lot of cross wind today and i stayed on the full 3.25 hours. felt good on the hills, and felt good when the hammer was dropped in a few tail wind sections..
i guess the 20 minute very hard tempo ride i do on my trainer is helping me. i will keep that up on wednesdays. and my hard long sunday ride will always be tough, i look forward to this ride..
2 days a week hard this time of year isnt too much i dont think.
i have 4 full months to build my strength back up for the 2010 season.
it'll be here before i know it.
any other pointers?increase the 20 minute hard trainer ride? or make it longer? build up to 2 of them? my hr on these is 88-90% max..
like i said i'll be racing age 55 so i'm doing all i can to just hang in on these cat 1-2 races. the masters races are only 10-11-12 guys so i rather go all out and suffer like a dog for 3 hours instead of riding 1.5 hours at a average pace..90% of the time i am in the lead group with 200 meters to go then the sprinters blow me away.i'm happy to finish a 65 mile race and be in there 64.9 milesbefore the sprint..
any more training tips will be appreciated. i do plan on upping my sunday ride 30 minutes every 2 weeks. i do 3:15 hours now so in 2 weeks i'll be at 3:45, then get up to 4:15 for my longest hard sunday training ride.
thanks alot

 

[pat5319]

It sounds like you need a real pro coach. I've had a state sprint champ ask me to help him get ready for Olympic trials and I'm not sure I could help even with more information about what you do now and (seeing)what your technique is like

after reading replies from my few previous posts, i thing i am getting a bit fitter doing the prescribed 20 minute very hard tempo on my trainer once a week.
i still cant pull thru going into the wind on my sunday hard ride, but i can hold wheels no matter how fast we go. 35 mph at some points today, and 23mph into a strong head wind.. i can climb with my 2 young fast training partners , but still lack the strength to pull thru in a cross wind , or a head wind. i guess the few guys i ride with are just better than me and they are 15 years younger, but that aint no excuse. i plan on training my tail off so i'll be able to pull thru in the wind. we had a lot of cross wind today and i stayed on the full 3.25 hours. felt good on the hills, and felt good when the hammer was dropped in a few tail wind sections..
i guess the 20 minute very hard tempo ride i do on my trainer is helping me. i will keep that up on wednesdays. and my hard long sunday ride will always be tough, i look forward to this ride..
2 days a week hard this time of year isnt too much i dont think.
i have 4 full months to build my strength back up for the 2010 season.
it'll be here before i know it.
any other pointers?increase the 20 minute hard trainer ride? or make it longer? build up to 2 of them? my hr on these is 88-90% max..
like i said i'll be racing age 55 so i'm doing all i can to just hang in on these cat 1-2 races. the masters races are only 10-11-12 guys so i rather go all out and suffer like a dog for 3 hours instead of riding 1.5 hours at a average pace..90% of the time i am in the lead group with 200 meters to go then the sprinters blow me away.i'm happy to finish a 65 mile race and be in there 64.9 milesbefore the sprint..
any more training tips will be appreciated. i do plan on upping my sunday ride 30 minutes every 2 weeks. i do 3:15 hours now so in 2 weeks i'll be at 3:45, then get up to 4:15 for my longest hard sunday training ride.
thanks alot

 

[leanman]

pat5319
thanks for the comment, but there's no way i can afford a coach....trial and error, or asking some advice, maybe reading certain workouts and trying them is the way i go about it.
i took up this sport cause i got hurt running. this is one expensive sport. i have a aluminum bike 6 years old with 50,000 miles on it.. maybe more. my wheels are junk, but thats all i can afford. no power meters and hr monitors. just cant affort that stuff..
so a coach is out of the question.
thanks for your comment.
lots of good guys on this board commenting and helping others out.

 

[vspa]

you can almost afford a complete second hand bike for the price of a power meter !
A nice set of wheels is a good investment. Simple heart rate monitors are cheap.
Remember how much money you invested and depreciated it against those 6 years and 50,000 miles and you'll find out it was all worth it

 

[celia123]

more exercise ,and need a coach ,i think.huh!

 

[robby123456]

WOW good job just keep up the hard work you will be there in no time!!

 

[doctorSpoc]

congratulations on your success!

sounds like you are taking it a bit easy right now and that's good... i've only been doing 2 rides a week this time of year as well... mostly because of time constraints, but i like to do at least 3 rides a week... i think it just keeps your body up and rearing to go without those two bid dead spots of only riding twice a week.. anyway i just let it come as it does 'til after new years and then i start to build.. for me that means min 4 times a week.. Tues, Thurs, Sat, Sun.. i do 2x10 on Tues and Thurs and start with 2x10 on Thurs and Sun (longer out door group ride when it warms up enough).. but transition to 2x20 on Thurs and Sun when i'm ready... as the season approaches i may even get into 2x30 and/or 3x20.. but not too much, that much time on a trainer is pretty hard.. so i do it before is start to transition to outside or if i'm already outside but weather turns bad and i'm limited to inside (i live in the great white north.. Canada)

i find that doing 2x10s at a slightly higher power than the 20min intervals lets me get comfortable with that higher power and eventually that tranfers to to the 20min intervals and i start riding them harder.. which make me ride the 10mins harder.. and it kind of just build on itself.. the higher intensity 10min intervals likely dip into VO2max and this is likely also responsible for that improvement as well.

i find doing 2 intervals is really helpful.. in making your mentally tough and learning your limits.. you have to do the 1st one sufficiently though to get good benefit from it, but you need to learn how to keep something in the tank for the second interval.. doing one you just give it and you really don't learn where your limits are as well... also just doing that second one after makes you mentally tougher, which i think is important. i do my 1st interval control and for the second one i just do by feel (i use a power meter to train).. most of the time the 2nd interval is much harder than the 1st.. sometimes not.. don't beat yourself up about it though just get the miles in.. as long as your on the bike and in the approximate area of intensity you're doing good work.. don't try to break records every day.. if you feel good, you may want to go for it, if you don't no biggie..

good to do back to back days... like i do Sat and Sun. again makes you mentally tougher and lets you learn your body and limits.

i do my intervals with increasing power.. my 20min intervals ave power can be anywhere from 230 to 270 watts but i may start out at 225 and build up to where i might be doing 300+ watts by the last minute.. so i'm constantly doing VO2max even when i'm doing my threshold intervals..

if power plateaus, you may want to start to do some 5min intervals(dedicated VO2max) training to up your VO2max which will often let you pull up your Threshold intervals intensity.. but in terms of time your time you are better served with the longer intervals of at least 10min



so in summary my advice and what i do is..

- take it easy 'til the new year.. try to ride at least 2-3 rides a week, without any more that 1 week off at a time.. 2 weeks max... this allows you to hold onto your fitness so you can build on what you did last season.. don't take too much time off so you have to start from scratch.. you want to be building a fitness stair case year to year..
- 2x10 and 2x20 should be your staple for your training indoors.. may want to graduate to 2x30 or 3x20 as you transition to outdoors to build volume.. but don't want to be doing too many 2hr training sessions indoor.. kinda brutal.. i do 1-1.5hrs usually indoors.. your doing more steady intensity indoors so the rides can be shorter
- steadily increasing intensity during interval.. so you get VO2max training built into your threshold training.. can take this or leave it.. it works for me though..-.
- do NOT shoot for records every workout.. mentally and physically taxing.. save something for the actual season..
- try to do back to back rides once during the week..
- if you don't have a power meter.. indoors you can use speed as a substitute for power.. need to keep tire pressure, roller pressure constant, but you can use speed as a substitute for power.. much better than using heart rate.. which is so laggy (takes your heart ~3-4mins to catch up to what your legs are doing) and variable from many factors (time of day, food, caffeine, temperature, hydration etc..).. that way you can keep close tabs on what you are doing and what you have done in the past and get instantaneous feedback (unlike with a heart rate monitor)
- money spent on a power meter is some of the best money you're ever going to spend if you're serious about cycling.. simplifies your life greatly.. no second guessing like you would with HR or RPE.. you just simply pick a power for an interval and you just go do it.. no guess work.. allows you to make really efficient use of your time.. an there are a tonne of guys on here that will help you figure out how to use your power meter effectively as well..

 

[leanman]

doctorspoc
nice post. thanks.
i continue my weekly training of 5 days a week.
what i did the month of october was....sunday the long hard one 3+ hours with tempo a few sprints, a hard hill or two, pace line, attacks.. just a good hard group ride... monday is an hour ez spin.. off tuesday. wednesady is an hour ez spin... thursday was my 20 minute hard interval . friday is my my ez hour spin.. off saturday.
i did this for a month, but stopped doing my 20 minute hard effort on thursdays. i dont think so, but a few guys said i'll peak in janurary. i figure how can i, going hard 1 day a week(sunday) and only 20 minutes hard thursday??? so i backed off my 20 minute ride. hell, i take plenty rest. 2 days a week, and i am on the 3 weeks on 1 week off monthly plan, so my 4th week, all i do is spin ez a few days. i may start these 20 minute hard tempo rides up tomorrow again.i cant see myself peaking just cause i do a weekly schedule like this...trial and error.
anyway, thanks for the comments.

 

[doctorSpoc]

doctorspoc
nice post. thanks.
i continue my weekly training of 5 days a week.
what i did the month of october was....sunday the long hard one 3+ hours with tempo a few sprints, a hard hill or two, pace line, attacks.. just a good hard group ride... monday is an hour ez spin.. off tuesday. wednesady is an hour ez spin... thursday was my 20 minute hard interval . friday is my my ez hour spin.. off saturday.
i did this for a month, but stopped doing my 20 minute hard effort on thursdays. i dont think so, but a few guys said i'll peak in janurary. i figure how can i, going hard 1 day a week(sunday) and only 20 minutes hard thursday??? so i backed off my 20 minute ride. hell, i take plenty rest. 2 days a week, and i am on the 3 weeks on 1 week off monthly plan, so my 4th week, all i do is spin ez a few days. i may start these 20 minute hard tempo rides up tomorrow again.i cant see myself peaking just cause i do a weekly schedule like this...trial and error.
anyway, thanks for the comments.

i've been riding and racing for 20+ years... your schedules seems fine to me for this time of year.. just want to stay on the bike, keep the legs moving and hang on to as much fitness as possible and have some fun with it, like i'm sure you are doing on the group rides... one dedicated threshold interval a week like you're doing is good and is not going to over cook you at all.. you have lots of recovery built into your schedule.