Sneak Peak at the new Fast Freddy/Calfee Stelleto

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Bentnut, Feb 27, 2003.

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  1. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    [email protected] (Andrew Douglas) wrote in message
    news:<e64[email protected]>...
    > But I have to admit, when I look at it, one word and one word only pops into my head:
    >
    > CalfEasy.
    >

    Better than Calf-Fast!

    I've already invited Fast Freddy up to the Portland HPV Challenge slated for this May. The Stilleto
    should give the "sock class" racers something to think about- and will probably give the streamliner
    guys some competition.

    Jeff
     


  2. That would be a Definate Serious...I'm shocked you'd think I was kidding. I was trying to be nice
    before and avoid writing what I really think and what I really think is that this bent is NOT worth
    spending more than a few milliseconds thinking about. IF you really think this bent is so great how
    about a Challenge? You get Freddie to offer to BUY BACK on this bent at the Full Price (within) 180
    days of the Purchase and THEN I will talk nice. **No Buy Back Program and then it is open season on
    this Lemon**

    Oh Yeah...how can every single comment I made (below) be wrong?? I am only offering MY (unmedicated)
    Opinion and I am NOT the Voice of this entire Newsgroup........... YET

    You posted some pics and seemed to invite comments and you got comments, surely you were NOT
    expecting all the comments to be from people who thought this (Lemon) would be favourable?

    So There

    "bentnut" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Joshua, I guess you're just a glass is half empty kind of guy. Every
    single
    > comment you made is just wrong. I can't tell if you're trolling or serious...
    >
    >
    > "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > Heh Gabe it is a personal taste issue, just because I think the bent looks like something
    > > someone who had never (seen) or built a LWB before, decided to
    > try
    > > making one in his garage don't mean people won't buy it. People buy lots
    > of
    > > stuff that make me wonder what is wrong with them....then eventually
    they
    > > realize the error of their ways and buy what I thought they should have bought in the 1st place.
    > > IMHO (only) the Fairing should make it in2 limited production and what
    it
    > is
    > > attached to will need to sell in the $3K range to offset only a few
    being
    > > sold each year. First impressions are often misleading, but there are some bent designs
    > that
    > > you can FEEL are destined to be winners with a long production
    > life....then
    > > there is THIS bent...nice fairing though and the fairing is ideal for
    > pilots
    > > who really don't care that they cannot see the pothole, road debris and
    > cute
    > > little squirrel they are about to mow down because the fairing is not
    > clear.
    > > It is as if the pilot is forced to sit in such an upright sitting
    position
    > > in order to see the road ahead via the small tinted windscreen section
    of
    > > the fairing....you lean back and you could plough into Bambi or a
    > something
    > > the size of a SUV. Just imagine the Liability issues surrounding a fairing that allows you
    to
    > > plough into the back of a Greyhound Bus that you cannot see in front of
    > you
    > > UNLESS you are sitting in a position equal to that of a MTB. You can bet the farm that people
    > > will buy such a fairing just so that
    they
    > > can be the 1st guy on their block to rear end a Bus. I would not want to
    > own
    > > stock in the Insurance company selling the Liability Insurance for that fairing. When I looked
    > > at those pics you posted...Gardner did NOT look at all pleased. He was probably thinking....damn
    > > I'm glad we are NOT building
    > this.
    >
    > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > --
    > > -----------------
    > >
    > > "Gabriel DeVault" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:p[email protected]...
    > > > Couple answers for your intelligent questions.
    > > >
    > > > 1. The steering seems very natural, light and easy. Freddy did the
    > remote
    > > > thing to eliminate the "tiller effect", it worked.
    > > >
    > > > 2. All Callfee prototypes are made using hand wrapped joints, as are
    > their
    > > > tandems currently. Untill they establish a market, then they make the
    > > molds
    > > > for the "lugs". This alone will probably knock a pound off the bike,
    and
    > > > it'll look nicer.
    > > >
    > > > 3. I believe different seat are being looked at.
    > > >
    > > > 4. Tell me about it. Still can't find carbon forks for the TE/GRR.
    > Someone
    > > > could make some cash if they built some...
    > > >
    > > > 5. The new socks are zippered all the way to the front.
    > > >
    > > > I can't wait to see one of these painted, Calfee's paint jobs are incredable. We will be
    > > > getting some official web stuff up soon. I'll
    > keep
    > > > ya' folks posted!
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "derek" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > > Gabe, Can you say "Sour Grapes?". I have always believed that the reason
    > > bents
    > > > > are not yet mainstream is because of the curmudgeonly personalities
    > some
    > > > of
    > > > > thier riders ;-) Thanks for posting the photos of the Calfee
    > prototype.
    > > > > This promises to be a very successful bent if it goes into
    production.
    > > It
    > > > > is way cool.
    > > > >
    > > > > Here are some of my observations. I will try to sound intellegent
    but
    > > > can't
    > > > > guarantee it.
    > > > >
    > > > > 1) The indirect linkage type steering is the most controversial
    aspect
    > > of
    > > > > the design. I personally have no problem with linkage steering, but
    > > some
    > > > > bent experts are reviled by them. I would love to test ride this
    bike
    > > to
    > > > > get a feel for the steering.
    > > > >
    > > > > 2) Calfee's trademark carbon fiber gusset's are not evident in the
    > > > photos.
    > > > > I will bet there is a story behind that.
    > > > >
    > > > > 3) With all due respect to Easy Racers, I would opt for a different
    > > seat.
    > > > A
    > > > > Rotator Ti seat would probably drop the weight of this bike by on
    > pound
    > > or
    > > > > so. An Easy Racer Koolback or a Rans seat would weigh more but would
    > > also
    > > > > appeal to a number of riders. If Calfee is smart, they will
    fabricate
    > a
    > > > > system that will mount different types of seats in order to let
    folks
    > > > satify
    > > > > individual tastes in the seating department.
    > > > >
    > > > > 4) I am so happy to see a carbon fiber fork on this bent. The
    > recumbent
    > > > > industry generally lags far behind upright road bike technology in
    > this
    > > > > feature.
    > > > >
    > > > > 5) Interesting fairing - the composite with an integrated raised
    > > > plexiglass
    > > > > vision bubble is cool, but how do you manage to see the road though
    > the
    > > > > plexiglass with the cloth sock in place, may I ask?
    > > > >
    > > > > Cheers, Derek "Gabriel DeVault" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message
    > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > What a bunch of skeptics. As if you can really judge " The pedals
    > are
    > > > way
    > > > > > too close to the pilot, the front Hub is massive, the backrest is
    > too
    > > > > > vertical to be comfortable." by looking at a photo. It will be
    > > available
    > > > > in
    > > > > > different sizes and the seat back is adjustable. The front hub is
    > > > massive?
    > > > > > What's that supposed to mean? It's a standard bottom bracket. As
    to
    > > why?
    > > > > > Weight! The prototype weighs about 25 lbs, the production version
    > will
    > > > > weigh
    > > > > > less than that by a couple pounds. Much less than any other LWB
    bent
    > > and
    > > > > > less than most SWB bents as well. Sheesh, what is with you folks,
    > > > someone
    > > > > > poo in your sandbox?
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > "bentnut" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > > http://www.cyberonic.net/~gdevault/
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Enjoy!
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Gabe
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
     
  3. I had the pleasure of meeting Craig Calfee about 3 years ago at a bicycle expo in Los Angeles. When
    I asked him about recumbents, he said he was very interested as he was growing increasingly tired of
    conventional bicycle saddles. We exchanged a couple of emails and I directed him to the Rotator site
    as I thought that a carbon Pursuit (LWB) would make a great bent. Interestingly, he wrote back that
    he had something more in mind like the Tiger (SWB). Perhaps Fast Freddy convinced him otherwise.

    Calfee is known for making exceptionally high quality products and is very well respected (he used
    to make Tour de France bikes for Greg Lemond's team). I can only imagine that whatever he makes will
    be a boost to the recumbnet world; many DF riders will take note that "Calfee" makes a bent.

    Personally, as front farings go, I don't think there is any more aesthetically pleasing and probably
    aerodynamically beneficial as Steve Delaire's Rotator Interceptor fairing. Craig and Freddy should
    looking into renting his mold.

    But hey, this is just a prototype we're looking at; I'm sure the finished product will be even
    better than what we've seen so far.

    Bruce Shannahoff
     
  4. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    Ken Kobayashi <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]t>...

    >
    > I think that's a Pantour suspension hub in front. And the seat angle and BB position looks fine to
    > me - almost identical to the GRR (no surprise there).

    Nope, that's a Phil Wood hub (notice the red seals on the bearings. It's a 16-spoke wheel, radially
    laced to a Sun M14A 451-diameter rim. It's pretty normal GRR fare- probably something that was "just
    laying around".

    Why worry about the parts? It's the frame that people should be looking at...

    Note that the traditional double bottom tube design has been replaced by a large diameter single
    tube. This *should* pay off in less crank flex and lighter weight.

    <Homer Simpson voice>
    Mmmmm...carbonnn fiberrrrrr.... </Homer Simpson voice>

    Jeff
     
  5. Bentnut

    Bentnut Guest

    I STILL can't tell if you're just pulling my leg. I'll presume you just have an off-beat sence of
    humor... In which case here's a song for you http://www.cyberonic.net/~gdevault/Sandbox.mp3

    "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > That would be a Definate Serious...I'm shocked you'd think I was kidding. I was trying to be nice
    > before and avoid writing what I really think and what I really think is that this bent is NOT
    > worth spending more than a
    few
    > milliseconds thinking about. IF you really think this bent is so great how about a Challenge? You
    > get Freddie to offer to BUY BACK on this bent at the Full Price
    (within)
    > 180 days of the Purchase and THEN I will talk nice. **No Buy Back Program and then it is open
    > season on this Lemon**
    >
    > Oh Yeah...how can every single comment I made (below) be wrong?? I am only offering MY
    > (unmedicated) Opinion and I am NOT the Voice of this entire Newsgroup........... YET
    >
    > You posted some pics and seemed to invite comments and you got comments, surely you were NOT
    > expecting all the comments to be from people who
    thought
    > this (Lemon) would be favourable?
    >
    > So There
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "bentnut" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Joshua, I guess you're just a glass is half empty kind of guy. Every
    > single
    > > comment you made is just wrong. I can't tell if you're trolling or serious...
    > >
    > >
    > > "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > Heh Gabe it is a personal taste issue, just because I think the bent looks like something
    > > > someone who had never (seen) or built a LWB before, decided
    to
    > > try
    > > > making one in his garage don't mean people won't buy it. People buy
    lots
    > > of
    > > > stuff that make me wonder what is wrong with them....then eventually
    > they
    > > > realize the error of their ways and buy what I thought they should
    have
    > > > bought in the 1st place. IMHO (only) the Fairing should make it in2 limited production and
    > > > what
    > it
    > > is
    > > > attached to will need to sell in the $3K range to offset only a few
    > being
    > > > sold each year. First impressions are often misleading, but there are some bent
    designs
    > > that
    > > > you can FEEL are destined to be winners with a long production
    > > life....then
    > > > there is THIS bent...nice fairing though and the fairing is ideal for
    > > pilots
    > > > who really don't care that they cannot see the pothole, road debris
    and
    > > cute
    > > > little squirrel they are about to mow down because the fairing is not
    > > clear.
    > > > It is as if the pilot is forced to sit in such an upright sitting
    > position
    > > > in order to see the road ahead via the small tinted windscreen section
    > of
    > > > the fairing....you lean back and you could plough into Bambi or a
    > > something
    > > > the size of a SUV. Just imagine the Liability issues surrounding a fairing that allows
    you
    > to
    > > > plough into the back of a Greyhound Bus that you cannot see in front
    of
    > > you
    > > > UNLESS you are sitting in a position equal to that of a MTB. You can bet the farm that people
    > > > will buy such a fairing just so that
    > they
    > > > can be the 1st guy on their block to rear end a Bus. I would not want
    to
    > > own
    > > > stock in the Insurance company selling the Liability Insurance for
    that
    > > > fairing. When I looked at those pics you posted...Gardner did NOT look at all pleased. He was
    > > > probably thinking....damn I'm glad we are NOT building
    > > this.
    > >
    >
    > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > > --
    > > > -----------------
    > > >
    > > > "Gabriel DeVault" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:p[email protected]...
    > > > > Couple answers for your intelligent questions.
    > > > >
    > > > > 1. The steering seems very natural, light and easy. Freddy did the
    > > remote
    > > > > thing to eliminate the "tiller effect", it worked.
    > > > >
    > > > > 2. All Callfee prototypes are made using hand wrapped joints, as are
    > > their
    > > > > tandems currently. Untill they establish a market, then they make
    the
    > > > molds
    > > > > for the "lugs". This alone will probably knock a pound off the bike,
    > and
    > > > > it'll look nicer.
    > > > >
    > > > > 3. I believe different seat are being looked at.
    > > > >
    > > > > 4. Tell me about it. Still can't find carbon forks for the TE/GRR.
    > > Someone
    > > > > could make some cash if they built some...
    > > > >
    > > > > 5. The new socks are zippered all the way to the front.
    > > > >
    > > > > I can't wait to see one of these painted, Calfee's paint jobs are incredable. We will be
    > > > > getting some official web stuff up soon. I'll
    > > keep
    > > > > ya' folks posted!
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > "derek" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > Gabe, Can you say "Sour Grapes?". I have always believed that the
    reason
    > > > bents
    > > > > > are not yet mainstream is because of the curmudgeonly
    personalities
    > > some
    > > > > of
    > > > > > thier riders ;-) Thanks for posting the photos of the Calfee
    > > prototype.
    > > > > > This promises to be a very successful bent if it goes into
    > production.
    > > > It
    > > > > > is way cool.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Here are some of my observations. I will try to sound intellegent
    > but
    > > > > can't
    > > > > > guarantee it.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > 1) The indirect linkage type steering is the most controversial
    > aspect
    > > > of
    > > > > > the design. I personally have no problem with linkage steering,
    but
    > > > some
    > > > > > bent experts are reviled by them. I would love to test ride this
    > bike
    > > > to
    > > > > > get a feel for the steering.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > 2) Calfee's trademark carbon fiber gusset's are not evident in
    the
    > > > > photos.
    > > > > > I will bet there is a story behind that.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > 3) With all due respect to Easy Racers, I would opt for a
    different
    > > > seat.
    > > > > A
    > > > > > Rotator Ti seat would probably drop the weight of this bike by on
    > > pound
    > > > or
    > > > > > so. An Easy Racer Koolback or a Rans seat would weigh more but
    would
    > > > also
    > > > > > appeal to a number of riders. If Calfee is smart, they will
    > fabricate
    > > a
    > > > > > system that will mount different types of seats in order to let
    > folks
    > > > > satify
    > > > > > individual tastes in the seating department.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > 4) I am so happy to see a carbon fiber fork on this bent. The
    > > recumbent
    > > > > > industry generally lags far behind upright road bike technology in
    > > this
    > > > > > feature.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > 5) Interesting fairing - the composite with an integrated raised
    > > > > plexiglass
    > > > > > vision bubble is cool, but how do you manage to see the road
    though
    > > the
    > > > > > plexiglass with the cloth sock in place, may I ask?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Cheers, Derek "Gabriel DeVault" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > message
    > > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > > What a bunch of skeptics. As if you can really judge " The
    pedals
    > > are
    > > > > way
    > > > > > > too close to the pilot, the front Hub is massive, the backrest
    is
    > > too
    > > > > > > vertical to be comfortable." by looking at a photo. It will be
    > > > available
    > > > > > in
    > > > > > > different sizes and the seat back is adjustable. The front hub
    is
    > > > > massive?
    > > > > > > What's that supposed to mean? It's a standard bottom bracket. As
    > to
    > > > why?
    > > > > > > Weight! The prototype weighs about 25 lbs, the production
    version
    > > will
    > > > > > weigh
    > > > > > > less than that by a couple pounds. Much less than any other LWB
    > bent
    > > > and
    > > > > > > less than most SWB bents as well. Sheesh, what is with you
    folks,
    > > > > someone
    > > > > > > poo in your sandbox?
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > "bentnut" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > > > http://www.cyberonic.net/~gdevault/
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Enjoy!
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Gabe
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
     
  6. "Joshua Goldberg" skrev...
    > IF you really think this bent is so great how about a Challenge? You get Freddie to offer to BUY
    > BACK on this bent at the Full Price (within) 180 days of the Purchase and THEN I will talk nice.
    > **No Buy Back Program and then it is open season on this Lemon**

    Who says we'd want to return it? If it rides like a TE and the geometry suggests it would he could
    offer double and not get it. Personally I wouldn't swap my TE-clone. At least not until I see if the
    new carbon Velokraft LWB which prototype steelframe I saw in Krakow surfaces.

    And isn't lemon normally used about the one bike/car etc. where _everything_ went wrong when they
    built it? So it doesn't really apply to a design?

    > Oh Yeah...how can every single comment I made (below) be wrong?? I am only offering MY
    > (unmedicated) Opinion and I am NOT the Voice of this entire Newsgroup........... YET

    Okay, pop two of those striped ones and that bright blue and lets have your medicated opinion for
    comparison. ;o)

    Regards Mikael
     
  7. Well, YES my Humour is somewhat off beat and it has taken me damn near a lifetime to get it this way
    and it is all mine and I like it too. Still a Lemon though.
    ---------------------------------------------
    "bentnut" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I STILL can't tell if you're just pulling my leg. I'll presume you just
    have
    > an off-beat sence of humor... In which case here's a song for you
    > http://www.cyberonic.net/~gdevault/Sandbox.mp3
     
  8. Double? No Way...he would not accept the challenge (IF) this thing ever gets into production (which
    I doubt it will).

    The last time I rode a TE-Clone you were age 13 and I was rather fond of the ride back then and I
    would NOT mind if someone left a GRR on my doorstep now, but this thing has Lemon written all over
    it. BUT as I stated before it IS a Prototype and the Final version may actually be worth $3K (but I
    doubt it).

    As for your point that it NEEDS a Hardshell, NO IT DON'T, a Hardshell would compound the problem. A
    Hardshell would be more reclined than that straight backrest in the photos.

    Look at the way the chap is sitting when he is trying to look through the Clear section of the
    Fairing...HOW comfortable would THAT be for 20 miles? You recline the Pilot and the more reclined
    the Pilot gets, the LESS he can see what is in front of his bent.

    And YES Clear Lexan Fairings get dents, scratches and the view is distorted...but at least you can
    see if there is a Bus in front of you! With a more reclined seat angle and a Fairing like this, the
    1st you'll see of the Greyhond Bus will be the rear Amber Tail Lamps on the Roof of the Bus...just
    as you slam into the Bus.

    Your Blue Fairing on the TE-Clone is NOT angled as upright as the Stelleto and the clear windscreen
    section is larger.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Joshua Goldberg" skrev...
    > > IF you really think this bent is so great how about a Challenge? You get Freddie to offer to BUY
    > > BACK on this bent at the Full Price
    (within)
    > > 180 days of the Purchase and THEN I will talk nice. **No Buy Back Program and then it is open
    > > season on this Lemon**
    >
    >[[[[[ Who says we'd want to return it? If it rides like a TE and the
    geometry
    > suggests it would he could offer double and not get it.]]]]]]]]]]

    > Regards Mikael
     
  9. Skip

    Skip Guest

    "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Well, YES my Humour is somewhat off beat and it has taken me damn near a lifetime to get it this
    > way and it is all mine and I like it too. Still a Lemon though.

    Joshua would you define "Lemon" for us?

    I think of a lemon (other than the kind you squeeze for iced tea) as a mechanical device that
    doesn't work properly or perform satisfactorily. What is it in the photographs that tells you
    it's a lemon?
     
  10. "Joshua Goldberg" skrev...
    > As for your point that it NEEDS a Hardshell, NO IT DON'T, a Hardshell would compound the problem.
    > A Hardshell would be more reclined than that straight backrest in the photos.

    I was thinking of the Novosport Scooter seat in carbon. It's not very reclined. I ought to know as I
    got one on my TE-clone. ;-) http://www.novosport.de/english/frame04.htm (hindmost seat)

    > Look at the way the chap is sitting when he is trying to look through the Clear section of the
    > Fairing...HOW comfortable would THAT be for 20 miles? You recline the Pilot and the more reclined
    > the Pilot gets, the LESS he can see what is in front of his bent.

    Betcha thats just for sprinting.

    > Your Blue Fairing on the TE-Clone is NOT angled as upright as the Stelleto and the clear
    > windscreen section is larger.

    Compared to him I'm further back and thus its more or less the same. I never look through the
    "clear" bit. I look over it just like he would. I did try leaning forward to get my head close
    behind the windscreen like he does, but that was just to see if it gave me more speed in sprints.

    Regards Mikael
     
  11. I should have clarified this earlier on the ideal user

    Lemon IF the Bent was to be made commercially available like a GRR...then it is a Lemon. IF the Bent
    was limited to Competition riders...No Problem. Stick a sock on it and most of the problems I see
    are dealt with.

    As a Commercial venture, selling it to the same folks who ride a RANS Stratus or Velocity Squared or
    a GRR...who want a layed back, sweet riding machine, then the Calfee won't work AND directing the
    bent that way will end in failure.

    As a Prototype it is fine...but to compete with a GRR or Stratus, it will die in the showroom. IF it
    was directed at the Competition Orientated cyclist, then YES it would sell even at $3K.

    (think I said the same thing above twice?)

    What is wrong?..bad fairing design, real bad seat design, BB too high and too close to the seat,
    pilot would be too jammed in if he/she was over 5.10 inches, handlebars too upfront and high to be
    comfortable for long rides, needs more length (stretch it back a tad) to get rid of the Boxy look,
    front Hub diameter looks too large for a narrow 451 wheel, all the bent weight seems to be pushed
    forward...good for steering and turning, but lousy for frame flex and a cushioned ride. To me it
    looks too much like a KHS Semi-Bent because the Pilot cannot stretch out his/her legs.........other
    than this it is fine.

    But to sit in a LBS next to a RANS LWB, it is a Lemon. Lemon here is used to imply the saleability
    of the product to a wide audience. You built the best anything in the world and if no one buys
    it...it becomes a Lemon.

    "skip" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Well, YES my Humour is somewhat off beat and it has taken me damn near a lifetime to get it this
    > > way and it is all mine and I like it too. Still a Lemon though.
    >
    > Joshua would you define "Lemon" for us?
    >
    > I think of a lemon (other than the kind you squeeze for iced tea) as a mechanical device that
    > doesn't work properly or perform satisfactorily. What is it in the photographs that tells you it's
    > a lemon?
     
  12. Joshua Goldberg <[email protected]> wrote:
    > First impressions are often misleading, but there are some bent designs that you can FEEL are
    > destined to be winners with a long production life....then there is THIS bent...nice fairing
    > though and the fairing is ideal for pilots who really don't care that they cannot see the pothole,
    > road debris and cute little squirrel they are about to mow down because the fairing is not clear.
    > It is as if the pilot is forced to sit in such an upright sitting position in order to see the
    > road ahead via the small tinted windscreen section of the fairing....you lean back and you could
    > plough into Bambi or a something the size of a SUV.

    I've ridden a Gold Rush with an opaque windscreen adjusted so that the nearest 20 feet of road is
    hidden from view. I've ridden this way for many thousands of miles in the city, in the country, on
    pavement, on dirt, and in races, and I have yet to hit Bambi or an SUV or anything else that might
    be noteworthy.

    http://www.sonic.net/~bushnell/bike/pictures/wsc_2002_ca25.jpg
    http://www.sonic.net/~bushnell/bike/pictures/wsc_2002_sa_valley.jpg
    http://www.sonic.net/~bushnell/bike/pictures/GoldRushFront_CPcrit.jpg
    http://www.sonic.net/~bushnell/bike/pictures/GoldRushSide_CPcrit.jpg

    Your vivid imagination suggests that you have never ridden such a bike or that you have very poor
    visual memory for the part of the road that has just passed from view behind the fairing. How do you
    suppose drivers in the USA managed driving their late-50's to late-70's automobiles with oversized
    hoods (bonnets)?

    Road hazards that one might belatedly see within 20 feet of the front of the bike will be
    unavoidable unless the speed is less than 8 mph or so. I usually ride faster, and I usually cast my
    eyes further down the road so that I _know_ what is in my blind spot.

    Certainly there's no accounting for taste, and not everyone likes the Easy Racer w/fairing look. (or
    should I say "Calfee/Markham w/fairing look"?) Why not just leave it at that? Your petulant critique
    lacks credibility.

    --
    Bill Bushnell
     
  13. Look at the Fairing photo again, the one that requires the pilot to lean forward to see through the
    tinted windscreen, your Fairings are NOT angled the same upright way and your Vision is NOT blocked
    by your fairing...and YES I have ridden a TE-Clone in 1980-82 with a fairing and no I did not waste
    any small animals, BUT the fairing was tilted back to allow me to see the road ahead....the
    F.Markham fairing angle isn't. The Pilot needs the upright seating position to see through the
    tinted windscreen....duh, why do you think there is such a windscreen added to the fairing...because
    the fairing angle is too upright for the pilot to see the back of the Bus and no one can ride a LWB
    sitting in such an upright position for any distance = bad design!
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Bill Bushnell" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Joshua Goldberg <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > First impressions are often misleading, but there are some bent designs
    that
    > > you can FEEL are destined to be winners with a long production
    life....then
    > > there is THIS bent...nice fairing though and the fairing is ideal for
    pilots
    > > who really don't care that they cannot see the pothole, road debris and
    cute
    > > little squirrel they are about to mow down because the fairing is not
    clear.
    > > It is as if the pilot is forced to sit in such an upright sitting
    position
    > > in order to see the road ahead via the small tinted windscreen section
    of
    > > the fairing....you lean back and you could plough into Bambi or a
    something
    > > the size of a SUV.
    >
    > I've ridden a Gold Rush with an opaque windscreen adjusted so that the
    nearest
    > 20 feet of road is hidden from view. I've ridden this way for many
    thousands
    > of miles in the city, in the country, on pavement, on dirt, and in races,
    and
    > I have yet to hit Bambi or an SUV or anything else that might be
    noteworthy.
    >
    > http://www.sonic.net/~bushnell/bike/pictures/wsc_2002_ca25.jpg
    > http://www.sonic.net/~bushnell/bike/pictures/wsc_2002_sa_valley.jpg
    > http://www.sonic.net/~bushnell/bike/pictures/GoldRushFront_CPcrit.jpg
    > http://www.sonic.net/~bushnell/bike/pictures/GoldRushSide_CPcrit.jpg
    >
    > Your vivid imagination suggests that you have never ridden such a bike or
    that
    > you have very poor visual memory for the part of the road that has just
    passed
    > from view behind the fairing. How do you suppose drivers in the USA
    managed
    > driving their late-50's to late-70's automobiles with oversized hoods (bonnets)?
    >
    > Road hazards that one might belatedly see within 20 feet of the front of
    the
    > bike will be unavoidable unless the speed is less than 8 mph or so. I
    usually
    > ride faster, and I usually cast my eyes further down the road so that I
    _know_
    > what is in my blind spot.
    >
    > Certainly there's no accounting for taste, and not everyone likes the Easy Racer w/fairing look.
    > (or should I say "Calfee/Markham w/fairing look"?)
    Why
    > not just leave it at that? Your petulant critique lacks credibility.
    >
    > --
    > Bill Bushnell
     
  14. In article <[email protected]> Joshua Goldberg wrote:
    > Look at the Fairing photo again, the one that requires the pilot to lean forward to see through
    > the tinted windscreen, your Fairings are NOT angled the same upright way and your Vision is NOT
    > blocked by your fairing...and YES I have ridden a TE-Clone in 1980-82 with a fairing and no I did
    > not waste any small animals, BUT the fairing was tilted back to allow me to see the road
    > ahead....the F.Markham fairing angle isn't.

    http://www.cyberonic.net/~gdevault/pages/PICT0959.htm This picture shows that Ron Bobb's eyes are
    higher than the top of the clear fairing insert. In fact the top of the fairing looks to be about
    even with his chin. He doesn't look through the fairing to pilot the bike. I believe my fairing is a
    bit higher, about even with my upper lip.

    http://www.sonic.net/~bushnell/bike/pictures/woodside_store2.jpg

    http://www.cyberonic.net/~gdevault/pages/PICT0960.htm You may be thinking of this picture where Ron
    has hunched down behind the top of the fairing. This technique can be used to tuck one's head
    completely behind the fairing temporarily (when the fairing is transparent), but it is not the
    normal riding position. This position can also be used to engage the back and butt muscles a bit
    more effectively in a sprint.

    >[...] and no one can ride a LWB sitting in such an upright position for any distance = bad design!

    People can and do ride recumbents over long distances with seats as upright as one can see in
    these pictures.

    --
    Bill Bushnell
     
  15. A&B

    A&B Guest

    bentnut, Cool song. Ever heard of Root Boy Slim? I think he's dead now. Had some swell songs like
    "You Made My Mood Ring Sweat". bill g

    bentnut wrote:
    >
    > I STILL can't tell if you're just pulling my leg. I'll presume you just have an off-beat sence of
    > humor... In which case here's a song for you http://www.cyberonic.net/~gdevault/Sandbox.mp3
     
  16. Skip

    Skip Guest

    "Larry Varney" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I kind of missed him, too. He was my role model as a recumbent guy with an expansive beard!

    Somehow I thought it was the other way around. Did he have the beard before you bought a Tour Easy?

    Skip
     
  17. John Foltz

    John Foltz Guest

    Joshua Goldberg wrote:
    > Look at the Fairing photo again, the one that requires the pilot to lean forward to see through
    > the tinted windscreen, your Fairings are NOT angled the same upright way and your Vision is NOT
    > blocked by your fairing...and YES I have ridden a TE-Clone in 1980-82 with a fairing and no I did
    > not waste any small animals, BUT the fairing was tilted back to allow me to see the road
    > ahead....the F.Markham fairing angle isn't. The Pilot needs the upright seating position to see
    > through the tinted windscreen....duh, why do you think there is such a windscreen added to the
    > fairing...because the fairing angle is too upright for the pilot to see the back of the Bus and no
    > one can ride a LWB sitting in such an upright position for any distance = bad design!
    >
    Josh, what I see in the photo is that the fairing is about the same relative height as the coroplast
    fairing on my V-Rex, which doesn't seem to impede my vision overly much. Tucking behind it would
    only done on big downhills, not while cruising, and the bubble would probably only be used in those
    cases - the distorted view through the plastic would be tiring for any significant distance. The
    seating angle is similar to current EasyRacer bikes. You may not be a fan, but it won't bother
    current ER owners. The other thing I see is that the steerer is a flip-it type riser, and that the
    top of the fairing is attached to the riser, at or near the handlebars. That means that the top of
    the fairing will pull down and back as the handlebars are brought toward the rider more. A *more
    reclined* position will be possible than current EasyRacers, because the handlebars and fairing will
    follow the rider.

    Or am I misinterpreting the pics?
    --

    John Foltz --- O _ Baron --- _O _ V-Rex 24/63 --- _\\/\-%)
    _________(_)`=()___________________(_)= (_)_____
     
  18. John Riley

    John Riley Guest

    Larry Varney wrote:

    > I kind of missed him, too. He was my role model as a recumbent guy with an expansive beard!

    Amen to that. That beard is in the "religious leader" category. He's got a kind of cult going
    anyway. Needs a better hat though, if he is going to have a serious religion. ;-)

    John Riley
     
  19. John Riley

    John Riley Guest

    Joshua Goldberg wrote:

    > As for your point that it NEEDS a Hardshell, NO IT DON'T, a Hardshell would compound the problem.
    > A Hardshell would be more reclined than that straight backrest in the photos.

    Note that the bike is shown with a kool back seat at BROL.

    John Riley
     
  20. Harv

    Harv Guest

    Root Boy! That's a record I haven't listened to in a loooong time. Remember "Put a quarter in the
    juke and boogie 'till you puke?" "a&b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > bentnut, Cool song. Ever heard of Root Boy Slim? I think he's dead now. Had some swell songs like
    > "You Made My Mood Ring Sweat". bill g
    >
    > bentnut wrote:
    > >
    > > I STILL can't tell if you're just pulling my leg. I'll presume you just
    have
    > > an off-beat sence of humor... In which case here's a song for you
    > > http://www.cyberonic.net/~gdevault/Sandbox.mp3
     
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