snow riding w/o studs?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Kbh, Jan 22, 2003.

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  1. Kbh

    Kbh Guest

    Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, or is it possible? I've
    never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) the woods looks like about 8 inches of
    hardpack/ice with some fresh powder on top. I'm going nuts inside, but I'm not sure I want to drop
    $80 on new MTB tires. I don't plan on doing much crazy twisty single track, primarily carraige roads
    and few trails.

    Thanks,

    Kyle
     
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  2. Joel Street

    Joel Street Guest

    Studs are best for riding on ice. Your knobby MTB tires will be fine if you are riding on snow
    covered trails.

    Joel

    "KBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:dsUV9.714755$%[email protected]...
    > Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, or is it possible? I've
    > never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) the woods looks like about 8 inches of
    > hardpack/ice with some fresh powder on top. I'm going nuts inside, but I'm not sure I want to drop
    > $80 on new MTB tires. I don't plan on doing much crazy twisty single track,
    primarily
    > carraige roads and few trails.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Kyle
     
  3. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    If you can find a smaller tire with knobs, you may have better luck getting down into something
    that'll give you traction. The problem I used to have (before I moved to Socal) was snow
    accumulating on the tires/brakes till you couldn't move.

    "KBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:dsUV9.714755$%[email protected]...
    > Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, or is it possible? I've
    > never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) the woods looks like about 8 inches of
    > hardpack/ice with some fresh powder on top. I'm going nuts inside, but I'm not sure I want to drop
    > $80 on new MTB tires. I don't plan on doing much crazy twisty single track,
    primarily
    > carraige roads and few trails.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Kyle
     
  4. "KBH" <[email protected]> spake thusly on or about Fri, 17 Jan 2003
    14:30:33 UTC

    -> Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, -> or is it possible?
    I've never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) ->

    I am a few miles north of you. ok

    studs are for ice and polished packed snow. I have not gotten studded tyres for my bike yet but my
    wife and son have had theirs on since October. I am now considering them because of recent rain/thaw
    and hard freeze conditions that have left many of the roads and alleys in a condition that has me
    wondering if skates might not be better than the bike.

    so yes you do not need studs but come the ice you might prefer to have them.

    --
    I hurt before the ride so fibro gives me a head start on the rest of the pack. silver lining?
    [email protected]
     
  5. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "KBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:dsUV9.714755$%[email protected]...
    > Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, or is it possible? I've
    > never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) the woods looks like about 8 inches of
    > hardpack/ice with some fresh powder on top. I'm going nuts inside, but I'm not sure I want to drop
    > $80 on new MTB tires. I don't plan on doing much crazy twisty single track,
    primarily
    > carraige roads and few trails.

    I've ridden through snow for many years and have never felt unsafe/insecure with my unstudded
    tubulars. Steel studs are vastly overrated IMHO. Other riders claim they are immensely
    useful/necessary. YMMV

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  6. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Kyle BH? writes:

    > Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, or is it possible? I've
    > never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) the woods looks like about 8 inches of
    > hardpack/ice with some fresh powder on top. I'm going nuts inside, but I'm not sure I want to drop
    > $80 on new MTB tires. I don't plan on doing much crazy twisty single track, primarily carriage
    > roads and few trails.

    I'm not clear on what you plan to ride. Is it "hard-pack" and "ice" or is it trails? If the tire
    makes an impression in the snow it is not hard-pack, and knobby tires will help. If tires do not
    make an impression on the snow then it is hard-pack and no manner of rubber tread will improve that.
    In fact a slick with lowered inflation pressure will work better if it is below freezing. For real
    hard-pack and ice, studs are the best solution because they make impressions, impressions that equal
    "bite" and traction.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  7. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "KBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:dsUV9.714755$%[email protected]...
    > Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, or is it possible? I've
    > never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) the woods looks like about 8 inches of
    > hardpack/ice with some fresh powder on top. I'm going nuts inside, but I'm not sure I want to drop
    > $80 on new MTB tires. I don't plan on doing much crazy twisty single track, primarily carraige
    > roads and few trails.

    As others have pointed out, studs are really only helpful on ice and hardpack (frozen granular), but
    on those surfaces, they are superb. When you get exactly the right (rare) conditions, off road
    riding with studs is amazing, it's as if the woods have been paved. I find that studs are most
    useful on bike trails/paths that get plowed, but not sanded/salted, since the daily thaw/refreeze
    cycles leave lots of icy patches.

    Some studded tires use real carbide studs, which will wear forever, others, including homemades,
    will wear out rapidly on pavement. Tire tread patterns for snow need to be open to prevent clogging,
    wide tires are better for not sinking into packed snow. Snow conditions are so variable that nothing
    works in all situations. I use studded tires off road (after snow here in Boston) because they're
    also good snow tires (from the tread pattern, not studs), they'll handle the intermittent icy
    patches, and when conditions are right, they're as much fun as downhill skiing, and about the same
    price (for one day, that is).

    Beware of the conditions you mentioned though: fresh powder on ice, that's deadly, a little powder
    can "float" the studs.
     
  8. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > Studded tires are for ice, not snow. They will not help you there. The biggest problem you're
    > going to have is forward motion (as in, getting
    it).
    > Your standard knobbie will work just fine.

    Getting forward motion is easy. Getting rid of it without skidding is the bigger problem, and the
    bigger safety issue.

    Matt O.
     
  9. Kbh

    Kbh Guest

    > I'm not clear on what you plan to ride. Is it "hard-pack" and "ice" or is it trails? If the tire
    > makes an impression in the snow it is not hard-pack, and knobby tires will help. If tires do not
    > make an impression on the snow then it is hard-pack and no manner of rubber tread will improve
    > that. In fact a slick with lowered inflation pressure will work better if it is below freezing.
    > For real hard-pack and ice, studs are the best solution because they make impressions, impressions
    > that equal "bite" and traction.

    It's some of both, and this is going to change on a daily basis depending on the thaw/freeze pattern
    as well as precipitation. So I guess I would be best off with studded tires as they will perform in
    all conditions, however I'll be OK with regular knobby tires as long as the snow isn't solid ice.

    Thanks everyone for your help.

    Kyle
     
  10. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message news:x5%[email protected]...

    > > Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, or is it possible?
    > > I've never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) the woods looks like about 8 inches of
    > > hardpack/ice with some fresh powder on top. I'm going nuts inside, but I'm not sure I want to
    > > drop $80 on new MTB tires. I don't plan on doing much crazy twisty single track, primarily
    > > carriage roads and few trails.
    >
    > I'm not clear on what you plan to ride. Is it "hard-pack" and "ice" or is it trails? If the tire
    > makes an impression in the snow it is not hard-pack, and knobby tires will help. If tires do not
    > make an impression on the snow then it is hard-pack and no manner of rubber tread will improve
    > that. In fact a slick with lowered inflation pressure will work better if it is below freezing.
    > For real hard-pack and ice, studs are the best solution because they make impressions, impressions
    > that equal "bite" and traction.

    For marginal hardpack conditions, I've found that a larger tire at lower pressure is best. They roll
    over other tire tracks better too without being deflected, or "tramlining." I break out the old
    2.35" Ritcheys on days like today. Viva la mountain bike.

    Matt O.
     
  11. x

    x Guest

    RE/
    >Getting forward motion is easy. Getting rid of it without skidding is the bigger problem, and the
    >bigger safety issue.

    It was the sideward motion followed by downward motion, followed by no motion that put me off of it.
    -----------------------
    Pete Cresswell
     
  12. Matt J

    Matt J Guest

    "KBH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<dsUV9.714755$%[email protected]>...
    > Should I bother even attempting to ride in the snow without studded tires, or is it possible? I've
    > never attempted it. Around here (north of Boston) the woods looks like about 8 inches of
    > hardpack/ice with some fresh powder on top. I'm going nuts inside, but I'm not sure I want to drop
    > $80 on new MTB tires. I don't plan on doing much crazy twisty single track, primarily carraige
    > roads and few trails.
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Kyle

    In rural michigan, with roads with packed down snow, standard tires had my front wheel slipping out
    on the slightest turns. However, I made some "studded tires" with short sheet-metal screws through
    every other knob on some old Specialized Groud Control tires. A tuffy tire liner kept the tube
    decent. This worked great, and cost about $3 for the screws. However, like everyone else has said,
    if it's just deepish snow, you'll have other difficulties. Matt
     
  13. x

    x Guest

    RE/
    >. I find that studs are most useful on bike trails/paths that get plowed, but not sanded/salted,
    > since the daily thaw/refreeze cycles leave lots of icy patches.

    They'd appeal to me here in Southeastern Penna where there isn't much snow because of the frequent
    patches of ice under snow. You can't see it coming and, in my limited experience, losing the front
    wheel at any kind of speed is a serious bummer.
    -----------------------
    Pete Cresswell
     
  14. Lincoln Ross

    Lincoln Ross Guest

    Be careful. I would advocate studs if you have much ice. Took 4 or 5 falls on Charles River Bike
    Path today without studs. Probably will not try that again until things thaw more.

    KBH wrote:
    >
    > > I'm not clear on what you plan to ride. Is it "hard-pack" and "ice" or is it trails? If the tire
    > > makes an impression in the snow it is not hard-pack, and knobby tires will help. If tires do not
    > > make an impression on the snow then it is hard-pack and no manner of rubber tread will improve
    > > that. In fact a slick with lowered inflation pressure will work better if it is below freezing.
    > > For real hard-pack and ice, studs are the best solution because they make impressions,
    > > impressions that equal "bite" and traction.
    >
    > It's some of both, and this is going to change on a daily basis depending on the thaw/freeze
    > pattern as well as precipitation. So I guess I would be best off with studded tires as they will
    > perform in all conditions, however I'll be OK with regular knobby tires as long as the snow isn't
    > solid ice.
    >
    > Thanks everyone for your help.
    >
    > Kyle

    --
    Lincoln Ross NOTE ADDRESS CHANGE: [email protected]
     
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