So NO on the Cinelli Super Corsa!! What about a Ritchey Road Logic...or Richard Sachs??



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Eurastus

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After the quite active discussion on the Cinelli Super Corsa, I've decided this isn't the one for
me. I do appreciate your collective opinions...I really do.

What about the Ritchey Road Logic? I know it's not lugged; it's either TIG welded or fillet brazed
(by Tom himself, I understand, if you want to spring for the extra cost). I sure do love the blue
with white panels that appears to be a standard paint scheme. I'm inclined to think it's a decent
design, what with Tom being around the block on a road bike a few times himself. I've owned a number
of Ritchey Logic parts (pedals, bars, stems, etc.) over the years and have been very pleased with
them. They've given me good value, low weight, and what I would consider decent design. I'm aware
that they're all sourced out of Taiwan, but appear to be good quality nonetheless.

The Road Logic seems available at $900-$1000; a LBS has one for $999 in stock that's my size, though
in a God-awful yellow/white--guy says he'd order the blue/white and could have it in 7 days.

Maybe this price is now getting close enough to a custom frame price that I should consider that.

I do dearly love the Richard Sachs frames I've seen (all two of them), but am a little scared of the
$2500+ I understand they run and the 9-12 month wait-time I was told they require. I remember a
wonderful red/white Sachs I rode beside for a number of miles during a mid-80's Markleeville Death
Ride. That was a real head-turner frame.

I'm not in a terrible rush, but waiting a year for a Sachs seems a little too long.

Your thoughts?

Thanks much...
 
"Eurastus" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

Snip
> I do dearly love the Richard Sachs frames I've seen (all two of them), but
am a
> little scared of the $2500+ I understand they run and the 9-12 month
wait-time
> I was told they require. I'm not in a terrible rush, but waiting a year
for a Sachs seems a little too
> long.
>
> Your thoughts? Snip

ONLY a year wait for a Sachs?! My understanding is the wait is at least 18 months actually closer
to 2 years. You might have a look at Dave Kirk's frames: www.kirkframeworks.com A good guy,
excellent builder.
 
About Ritchey stuff, it's true that a lot of there stuff is outsourced internationally, but does it really matter? All of their stuff is extremely high quality and is many times better than stuff made in the good ole US. And I think Ritchey steel frames are vastly underrated. My friend is a welder and says that TIG is stronger than fillet or lugs. It may not have the looks of lugged or fillet, but structurally it is better. Does that make any difference? Not really because properly welded or brazed bikes will never fail at the welding/brazing areas.

About Richard Sachs. This guy's frames are a true work of art. He uses the traditional technique of pinning the tubes (instead or tack brazing) before he fully brazes the tubes. This is totally time consuming, but you end up with a frame that needs less cold-setting alignment before being shipped off to the customer. Cold-setting a frame weakens it to a certain extent. He uses one of those 5 thousand dollar Italian jigs to keep it all straight for pinning. The point is that you are guaranteed a straight frame and it will track straight like no other. There are pictures on the internet of his building process and it is extremely meticulous. Its going to weigh a little more than a TIG-ed bike.

... so, if you were going to get one, I'd go with the Richard Sachs. Sure it ways a little more, but so what? It is straight as an arrow and will ride fantastic. Of course, I've always like Ritchey bikes and the Ritchey tubing is nice and light. It will ride great too. Actually, now that I think about it, I'd get the Ritchey. I'm a believer in instant gratification and I can't stand to wait over a year.





Originally posted by Eurastus
After the quite active discussion on the Cinelli Super Corsa, I've decided this isn't the one for
me. I do appreciate your collective opinions...I really do.

What about the Ritchey Road Logic? I know it's not lugged; it's either TIG welded or fillet brazed
(by Tom himself, I understand, if you want to spring for the extra cost). I sure do love the blue
with white panels that appears to be a standard paint scheme. I'm inclined to think it's a decent
design, what with Tom being around the block on a road bike a few times himself. I've owned a number
of Ritchey Logic parts (pedals, bars, stems, etc.) over the years and have been very pleased with
them. They've given me good value, low weight, and what I would consider decent design. I'm aware
that they're all sourced out of Taiwan, but appear to be good quality nonetheless.

The Road Logic seems available at $900-$1000; a LBS has one for $999 in stock that's my size, though
in a God-awful yellow/white--guy says he'd order the blue/white and could have it in 7 days.

Maybe this price is now getting close enough to a custom frame price that I should consider that.

I do dearly love the Richard Sachs frames I've seen (all two of them), but am a little scared of the
$2500+ I understand they run and the 9-12 month wait-time I was told they require. I remember a
wonderful red/white Sachs I rode beside for a number of miles during a mid-80's Markleeville Death
Ride. That was a real head-turner frame.

I'm not in a terrible rush, but waiting a year for a Sachs seems a little too long.

Your thoughts?

Thanks much...
 
How about a custom Eddy Merckx lugged MX Leader (as used by Motorola, etc.), built in belgium,
custom geometry and choice of paint, about a 3-4 month wait, about 1400 from www.bikyle.com

"Eurastus" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> After the quite active discussion on the Cinelli Super Corsa, I've decided
this
> isn't the one for me. I do appreciate your collective opinions...I really
do.
>
> What about the Ritchey Road Logic? I know it's not lugged; it's either
TIG
> welded or fillet brazed (by Tom himself, I understand, if you want to
spring
> for the extra cost). I sure do love the blue with white panels that appears to be a standard
paint
> scheme. I'm inclined to think it's a decent design, what with Tom being
around
> the block on a road bike a few times himself. I've owned a number of
Ritchey
> Logic parts (pedals, bars, stems, etc.) over the years and have been very pleased with them.
> They've given me good value, low weight, and what I
would
> consider decent design. I'm aware that they're all sourced out of Taiwan,
but
> appear to be good quality nonetheless.
>
> The Road Logic seems available at $900-$1000; a LBS has one for $999 in
stock
> that's my size, though in a God-awful yellow/white--guy says he'd order
the
> blue/white and could have it in 7 days.
>
> Maybe this price is now getting close enough to a custom frame price that
I
> should consider that.
>
> I do dearly love the Richard Sachs frames I've seen (all two of them), but
am a
> little scared of the $2500+ I understand they run and the 9-12 month
wait-time
> I was told they require. I remember a wonderful red/white Sachs I rode
beside
> for a number of miles during a mid-80's Markleeville Death Ride. That was
a
> real head-turner frame.
>
> I'm not in a terrible rush, but waiting a year for a Sachs seems a little
too
> long.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> Thanks much...
 
KB wrote in message ...
>How about a custom Eddy Merckx lugged MX Leader (as used by Motorola, etc.), built in belgium,
>custom geometry and choice of paint, about a 3-4 month wait, about 1400 from www.bikyle.com
>
>
Oh no, not the mx leader! I thought that slug was long dead and buried where it shoudl be. At 6 lbs
just for the frame and fork it's way too heavy to ride.

Lance dispised that thing when he had to ride it for the mid '90s spring classics.

The corny looking lug work and box crown make it look like something out of the comic books.
 
"Eurastus" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:EQmdnVFyNtTHBLiiU-

> What about the Ritchey Road Logic? I know it's not lugged; it's either
TIG
> welded or fillet brazed (by Tom himself, I understand, if you want to
spring
> for the extra cost).

The Road Classic (the fillet brazed version) was the first bike to ever make me drool when I saw one
in a shop fitted with pretty wide looking smooth tires almost 20 years ago. The Ritchey road bikes,
TIG welded included, have a pretty good reputation I think. Some other makers whose work I admire
include Peter Johnson (look in the classic rendezvous website:
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/Peter_Johnson.htm Don't know if he builds commercially - Jobst
Brandt has one of his frames) and Jeff Lyon (he has good prices too: http://lyonsport.com/).
 
"Eurastus" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> After the quite active discussion on the Cinelli Super Corsa, I've decided
this
> isn't the one for me. I do appreciate your collective opinions...I really
do.
>
> What about the Ritchey Road Logic? I know it's not lugged; it's either
TIG
> welded or fillet brazed (by Tom himself, I understand, if you want to
spring
> for the extra cost). I sure do love the blue with white panels that appears to be a standard
paint
> scheme. I'm inclined to think it's a decent design, what with Tom being
around
> the block on a road bike a few times himself. I've owned a number of
Ritchey
> Logic parts (pedals, bars, stems, etc.) over the years and have been very pleased with them.
> They've given me good value, low weight, and what I
would
> consider decent design. I'm aware that they're all sourced out of Taiwan,
but
> appear to be good quality nonetheless.
>
> The Road Logic seems available at $900-$1000; a LBS has one for $999 in
stock
> that's my size, though in a God-awful yellow/white--guy says he'd order
the
> blue/white and could have it in 7 days.
>
> Maybe this price is now getting close enough to a custom frame price that
I
> should consider that.
>
> I do dearly love the Richard Sachs frames I've seen (all two of them), but
am a
> little scared of the $2500+ I understand they run and the 9-12 month
wait-time
> I was told they require. I remember a wonderful red/white Sachs I rode
beside
> for a number of miles during a mid-80's Markleeville Death Ride. That was
a
> real head-turner frame.
>
> I'm not in a terrible rush, but waiting a year for a Sachs seems a little
too
> long.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> Thanks much...

Buy yourself a superb Waterford-made Gunnar (<$700) or such if you don't mind 2cm sizing (Custom for
$1K) , or flip for something else if you have more money to blow. Gunnars are most often delivered
within two weeks (custom is about 4-6weeks now).

--
Robin Hubert <[email protected]
 
You should have a look at a GIOS Compact - they are very pretty and light. I have an 87 Professional
I just built up and it is 19.0lbs with pedals. The BB deflects less than my alum MTB and Hybrid and
the ride is so sweet. They have gorgeous chromed lugs and the cool rear dropouts that made GIOS
famous. The Kelme team were riding these frames a few years ago.

Excel sports sells them. Worth a look and from what I can tell, they are going on 55 years being
made in the same place by the same folks.

"Eurastus" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> After the quite active discussion on the Cinelli Super Corsa, I've decided
this
> isn't the one for me. I do appreciate your collective opinions...I really
do.
>
> What about the Ritchey Road Logic? I know it's not lugged; it's either
TIG
> welded or fillet brazed (by Tom himself, I understand, if you want to
spring
> for the extra cost). I sure do love the blue with white panels that appears to be a standard
paint
> scheme. I'm inclined to think it's a decent design, what with Tom being
around
> the block on a road bike a few times himself. I've owned a number of
Ritchey
> Logic parts (pedals, bars, stems, etc.) over the years and have been very pleased with them.
> They've given me good value, low weight, and what I
would
> consider decent design. I'm aware that they're all sourced out of Taiwan,
but
> appear to be good quality nonetheless.
>
> The Road Logic seems available at $900-$1000; a LBS has one for $999 in
stock
> that's my size, though in a God-awful yellow/white--guy says he'd order
the
> blue/white and could have it in 7 days.
>
> Maybe this price is now getting close enough to a custom frame price that
I
> should consider that.
>
> I do dearly love the Richard Sachs frames I've seen (all two of them), but
am a
> little scared of the $2500+ I understand they run and the 9-12 month
wait-time
> I was told they require. I remember a wonderful red/white Sachs I rode
beside
> for a number of miles during a mid-80's Markleeville Death Ride. That was
a
> real head-turner frame.
>
> I'm not in a terrible rush, but waiting a year for a Sachs seems a little
too
> long.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> Thanks much...
 
"Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> KB wrote in message ...
> >How about a custom Eddy Merckx lugged MX Leader (as used by Motorola,
etc.),
> >built in belgium, custom geometry and choice of paint, about a 3-4 month wait, about 1400 from
> >www.bikyle.com
> >
> >
> Oh no, not the mx leader! I thought that slug was long dead and buried where it shoudl be. At 6
> lbs just for the frame and fork it's way too heavy to ride.
>
> Lance dispised that thing when he had to ride it for the mid '90s spring classics.
>
> The corny looking lug work and box crown make it look like something out of the comic books.
>
>

I had some friends back when that had Max forks. They seemed to break with fair frequency...

Mike
 
Sam-<< I do dearly love the Richard Sachs frames I've seen (all two of them), but am a little scared
of the $2500+ I understand they run and the 9-12 month wait-time I was told they require >><BR><BR>

http://www.nobilettecycles.com

Lugged frameset for $1600-about 4-6 weeks..

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
BaCard-<< My friend is a welder and says that TIG is stronger than fillet or lugs >><BR><BR>

This really depends on the tubes used..Some are not made for tig welding and the resulting frameset
would not last...The tig method in and of itself doesn't make for a stronger joint..

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
Eurastus wrote:
> After the quite active discussion on the Cinelli Super Corsa, I've decided this isn't the one for
> me. I do appreciate your collective opinions...I really do.
>
> What about the Ritchey Road Logic? I know it's not lugged; it's either TIG welded or fillet brazed
> (by Tom himself, I understand, if you want to spring for the extra cost).

I've owned a 58cm Ritchey Logic, Tange Prestige tubing, since '95, and rode Paris-Brest-Paris on it
in '99. It's a great all-around, all-day racing frame. Not superlight, not superheavy, just nice and
stiff horizontally, with just a hint of vertical flex. I particularly like the feel of the fork,
good feel but not flexy laterally. It does have a slightly extended wheelbase which smoothes out
rear vibrations a bit and lets you run bigger tires -- ~28mm I think. As you may know it is (was?
anything changed?) mostly built by Toyo in Japan which makes Rivendell production bikes. Tom
supposedly brazes the seat lug. Clean tig welds. My only complaint would be that the decals were not
clearcoated. After 8 years they are peeling at the edges. No big deal. The paint is still in good
shape, a couple of chips on the chainstays.

Ed Felker Arlington, VA
 
In article <[email protected]>, "Dave Thompson" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Eurastus" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> Snip
> > I do dearly love the Richard Sachs frames I've seen (all two of them),
but am a
> > little scared of the $2500+ I understand they run and the 9-12 month
wait-time
> > I was told they require. I'm not in a terrible rush, but waiting a
year for a Sachs
> > seems a little too long.
> >
> > Your thoughts? Snip
>
> ONLY a year wait for a Sachs?! My understanding is the wait is at least 18 months actually closer
> to 2 years. You might have a look at Dave Kirk's frames: www.kirkframeworks.com A good guy,
> excellent builder.

In case you don't have enough suggestions: Paul at www.rocklobstercycles.com can build you a custom
frame in less time. He has been building since 1978 and is a really nice guy too. dug

> Rock Lobster frames are built using a variety of materials and methods. While most frames are
> tig-welded, fillett brazing and lugged construction are available on most steel frames. Almost any
> degree of artistic touches are available as well, depending on budget. All aluminum frames are tig
> welded and then artificially aged or heat-treated by an aerospace quality facility. Frames are
> aligned to within .020. Steerer sizes of 1 and 1 1/8 are available on road and mountain frames.
> All threads are English and all frames are fully prepped before leaving the shop. Both powdercoat
> and wet-paint finishes are available, the stock finish being a powdercoat ( single color ) with a
> wet-paint clearcoat is included in the price. All sizing and geometries are custom as these frames
> are built one at a time.
 
I'll put a plug in for Ritchey. I have a Richey Road Classic and it's the best handling bike I've
ever ridden. It's superb.

The Road Logic uses the same tubes and geometry, but costs less due to being TIG welded rather
than fillet brazed. You could get two of them for the cost of a Sachs, although the Sachs has its
own mystique.
 
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