So what drugs did BAsso get a hold of to improve so well?

[azdroptop]

FFS he's starts doing alright for himself so he must be doping??? You pathetic people, go outside and get your fat **** on a bike instead of making stupid accusations.

Sorry to ruffle your feathers, I just thought I'd throw this comment out there to see what kind of remarks would show themselves. When LA was dominating it was always about the drugs and not his training. Just wanted to see if the same held for a non-Postal/DC rider.

 

[lwedge]

go outside and get your fat **** on a bike instead of making stupid accusations.

Does my butt look fat ?

 

[jhuskey]

Yeah...I wonder what`s the flavour of that crow-bar.

Lance was never forced to eat Crowe. He volunteered!

 

[noonievut]

Wondering what the thoughts are out there? Using the logic from this site he has to be on something to improve like he has and to be in the front of the peleton?

He was in the front last year until he got sick, without Lance in last years TDF he would've been in the front. Nothing new here...and nothing new here.

 

[sonicman]

Has David Millar ever tested positive?
Has Marco Pantani ever tested positive?
Has Raimondo Rumsas ever tested positive?
Did Bjarne Mr 60% Riis ever test positive?

(The answer is no to all.)

It is a little too naive to take the view that not testing positive means a rider is clean.

No but there was real evidence that they juiced.

 

[patch70]

No but there was real evidence that they juiced.

Not at the time they were juicing, only later.

As stated before, His DS is Mr 60%. Do you think he'd say "My career was made by juicing up to win the Tour. I didn't get caught and now I am very rich & famous. But you guys should ride clean."?

Mr 60% has got Drs Cecchini & Fuentes on board to "assist" the team. The team is incredibly strong with a few riders who were mediocre at other teams and now are world class. Are you at least suspicious?

 

[heinkel12]

Not at the time they were juicing, only later.

As stated before, His DS is Mr 60%. Do you think he'd say "My career was made by juicing up to win the Tour. I didn't get caught and now I am very rich & famous. But you guys should ride clean."?

Mr 60% has got Drs Cecchini & Fuentes on board to "assist" the team. The team is incredibly strong with a few riders who were mediocre at other teams and now are world class. Are you at least suspicious?

I would be more suprised if any of the top-liners weren't on the juice. I think pro-cyclists take anything they can get their hands on. They all have doctors on the teams who can monitor their health and control doping.
Even Jan Ullrich worked with Dr Cecchini so there must be a cloud over him too.
As for Basso-well in his defence his improvement is hardly a bolt out of the blue. He was World Under 23 Champion and has finished 11th, 7th, 3rd and 2nd in the Tour in the last few years which shows a steady and believable progression. I think he will win the Tour handily this year.
That being said I stand by my original comment that all of the best cyclists in the world probably dope and at the end of the day the best guy probably still wins.

 

[patch70]

That being said I stand by my original comment that all of the best cyclists in the world probably dope and at the end of the day the best guy probably still wins.

Agree that the majority are on some form of Juice. If we believe Benjo Maso, author of "Sweat of the Gods" and a man who probably knows more about pro cycling than all the rest of us put together, he says about 90% of the pro peloton are doing it.

However, I think there is a technology distinction so that the best guy may not necessarily win. Look at the way Gewiss dominated when they were ahead in the doping stakes. I think there are a few teams like that now. There was even a rider recently that was personally sponsored by BristolMyersSquibb!!!

 

[wolfix]

Not at the time they were juicing, only later.

As stated before, His DS is Mr 60%. Do you think he'd say "My career was made by juicing up to win the Tour. I didn't get caught and now I am very rich & famous. But you guys should ride clean."?

Mr 60% has got Drs Cecchini & Fuentes on board to "assist" the team. The team is incredibly strong with a few riders who were mediocre at other teams and now are world class. Are you at least suspicious?

No .....I think the key to success on Riis team is the "camp" he provides. I remember when I was young and barely able to start a campfire. Then my mother sent me to 'Boy Scout Camp" for the summer. There at camp we learned many things such as building campfires by rubbing 2 sticks together among other things. I applied what I learned at camp and today I am proud to state that I am a "world class arsonist." Wait, I didn't just admit did I ??? Where is that "edit" button???

 

[heinkel12]

Agree that the majority are on some form of Juice. If we believe Benjo Maso, author of "Sweat of the Gods" and a man who probably knows more about pro cycling than all the rest of us put together, he says about 90% of the pro peloton are doing it.

However, I think there is a technology distinction so that the best guy may not necessarily win. Look at the way Gewiss dominated when they were ahead in the doping stakes. I think there are a few teams like that now. There was even a rider recently that was personally sponsored by BristolMyersSquibb!!!

Fair enough. It may also be that richer teams have an advantage in regards to obtaining that technology. Ability still plays a part too I think. You could dope a donkey and he couldn't win the Melbourne Cup!

 

[wolfix]

I think. You could dope a donkey and he couldn't win the Melbourne Cup!

Sure he could.

 

[heinkel12]

Sure he could.

Only if he is trained by Dr Ferrari.....heh heh.

 

[patch70]

Ability still plays a part too I think. You could dope a donkey and he couldn't win the Melbourne Cup!

Absolutely. If Epo gives you an 8% benefit (approx), then a rider that was 2% better to start with will still be about 2% better if both use Epo and nothing else. And sadly no amount of Epo etc would get me to the Tour.

 

[Bjorn P.Dal]

Absolutely. If Epo gives you an 8% benefit (approx), then a rider that was 2% better to start with will still be about 2% better if both use Epo and nothing else. And sadly no amount of Epo etc would get me to the Tour.

Just curious, where do you get the 8% nr? What metric is it?

 

[Jono L]

Does my butt look fat ?

Yes!

 

[limerickman]

Agree that the majority are on some form of Juice. If we believe Benjo Maso, author of "Sweat of the Gods" and a man who probably knows more about pro cycling than all the rest of us put together, he says about 90% of the pro peloton are doing it.

I agree with you.

There was even a rider recently that was personally sponsored by BristolMyersSquibb!!!

.......indeed he was sponsored by BMS.
The wonders of (bio) technology eh!

 

[MJtje]

For youre info, Benjo Maso posts on RBR; he's made some nice posts over the years........

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.racing/search?group=rec.bicycles.racing&q=Benjo+Maso&qt_g=1

Agree that the majority are on some form of Juice. If we believe Benjo Maso, author of "Sweat of the Gods" and a man who probably knows more about pro cycling than all the rest of us put together, he says about 90% of the pro peloton are doing it.


However, I think there is a technology distinction so that the best guy may not necessarily win. Look at the way Gewiss dominated when they were ahead in the doping stakes. I think there are a few teams like that now. There was even a rider recently that was personally sponsored by BristolMyersSquibb!!!

 

[weremichael]

As stated earlier, Basso has steadily improved over the course of his career. His time trialing improved last year to the point that he won an ITT in the Giro. Basso has been the only rider to stick with Lance for the past few years on any climb. I love the fact that ya'll say that he has improved so drastically when the fact that is that he takes the mantle when most dominant rider in the last seven years retires.

The fact is "if" all the top riders have been doping, Basso has been doing it for years. Why would he just start now??

It seems that the majority of this board are Disco fans and there are some sour grapes that they are faultering without a true Grand Tour rider. So lets blame Basso, because he's not American and he has been the next best thing to Armstrong for the past two years.

Screw this, I am going for a ride and I am high as **** on coffee.

Michael

 

[Lonnie Utah]

.......indeed he was sponsored by BMS.
The wonders of (bio) technology eh!

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/

 

[thebluetrain]

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/

Is that Henry Rollins in your avatar?