So who's the lucky boy who got caught by the Passport ?



Keith wrote:

> "Top rider under suspicion from passport data"
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/may08/may03news&from=rss
>
> My money's on Valverde or Contador, these two would NEVER have gotten off
> so lightly in Puerto if they hadn't been Spanish...

On what legal grounds do you ban someone for "unusual blood or urine
patterns". As the uberape pointed out these biological pissports are dumb
as you can't ban someone if they haven't tested positive.

The last time someone had "unusual blood patterns" it was because he
had the runs the day before.

I'd like some cool ornamental fractals in my pee.
 
On May 3, 3:14 am, Keith <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Top rider under suspicion from passport data"http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/may08/may03news&from...
>
> My money's on Valverde or Contador, these two would NEVER have gotten
> off so lightly in Puerto if they hadn't been Spanish...

"It is not unusual to have results of this kind, and there is no
concern at this moment," McQuaid told the Associated Press.

What does that mean? Unusal compared to what?

Joseph
 
[email protected] wrote:
> "It is not unusual to have results of this kind, and there is no concern
> at this moment," McQuaid told the Associated Press.
>
> What does that mean? Unusal compared to what?

Tea leaves. Chicken entrails.
 
On Sat, 3 May 2008 06:43:30 -0700 (PDT),
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

>On May 3, 3:14 am, Keith <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Top rider under suspicion from passport data"http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/may08/may03news&from...
>>
>> My money's on Valverde or Contador, these two would NEVER have gotten
>> off so lightly in Puerto if they hadn't been Spanish...
>
>"It is not unusual to have results of this kind, and there is no
>concern at this moment," McQuaid told the Associated Press.
>
>What does that mean? Unusal compared to what?

Unusual compared to what Verbruggen and McQuaid have turned their eyes
away from over the past 5 years, good thing they don't seem to have a
handle on Anne Griper !

>Joseph
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:68e5c91e-2268-4a98-a9ea-19d953e05a15@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On May 3, 3:14 am, Keith <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Top rider under suspicion from passport
> data"http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/may08/may03news&from...
>
> My money's on Valverde or Contador, these two would NEVER have gotten
> off so lightly in Puerto if they hadn't been Spanish...

"It is not unusual to have results of this kind, and there is no
concern at this moment," McQuaid told the Associated Press.

What does that mean? Unusal compared to what?

Data are usually normally distributed. At the 99% confidence level, 1%
will be statistically different (more than 2.5 standard deviations from
the norm). 23 out of 2172 is approx 1%.

Phil H
 
On May 3, 7:17 am, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:

> Data are usually normally distributed.

That's an unusual usage of "usually."
 
On May 3, 4:17 pm, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:68e5c91e-2268-4a98-a9ea-19d953e05a15@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On May 3, 3:14 am, Keith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Top rider under suspicion from passport
> > data"http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/may08/may03news&from...
>
> > My money's on Valverde or Contador, these two would NEVER have gotten
> > off so lightly in Puerto if they hadn't been Spanish...
>
> "It is not unusual to have results of this kind, and there is no
> concern at this moment," McQuaid told the Associated Press.
>
> What does that mean? Unusal compared to what?
>
> Data are usually normally distributed. At the 99% confidence level, 1%
> will be statistically different (more than 2.5 standard deviations from
> the norm). 23 out of 2172 is approx 1%.
>
> Phil H

It's 854, not 2172. So do they just ignore those 23 guys, or do they
nail them to the wall. Or do they toss a coin for each one?

Joseph
 
"Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:19a543ad-3f64-4703-835b-a001e11e78c8@x19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On May 3, 7:17 am, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
>
>> Data are usually normally distributed.
>
> That's an unusual usage of "usually."
>

This kind of data are usually bell shaped ......how's that?

Phil H
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On May 3, 4:17 pm, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:68e5c91e-2268-4a98-a9ea-19d953e05a15@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On May 3, 3:14 am, Keith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Top rider under suspicion from passport
> > data"http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/may08/may03news&from...
>
> > My money's on Valverde or Contador, these two would NEVER have
> > gotten
> > off so lightly in Puerto if they hadn't been Spanish...
>
> "It is not unusual to have results of this kind, and there is no
> concern at this moment," McQuaid told the Associated Press.
>
> What does that mean? Unusal compared to what?
>
> Data are usually normally distributed. At the 99% confidence level, 1%
> will be statistically different (more than 2.5 standard deviations
> from
> the norm). 23 out of 2172 is approx 1%.
>
> Phil H

It's 854, not 2172. So do they just ignore those 23 guys, or do they
nail them to the wall. Or do they toss a coin for each one?

It depends if you want a system that blindly follows the rules with a
known probability of making errors or if you want to take into
consideration a known percentage of riders who will be outside of
certain limits. There is always going to be a compromise between false
accusation and dopers going undetected.

Phil H
 
On May 3, 7:42 pm, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
> On May 3, 4:17 pm, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
>
>
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >news:68e5c91e-2268-4a98-a9ea-19d953e05a15@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> > On May 3, 3:14 am, Keith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > "Top rider under suspicion from passport
> > > data"http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/may08/may03news&from...
>
> > > My money's on Valverde or Contador, these two would NEVER have
> > > gotten
> > > off so lightly in Puerto if they hadn't been Spanish...
>
> > "It is not unusual to have results of this kind, and there is no
> > concern at this moment," McQuaid told the Associated Press.
>
> > What does that mean? Unusal compared to what?
>
> > Data are usually normally distributed. At the 99% confidence level, 1%
> > will be statistically different (more than 2.5 standard deviations
> > from
> > the norm). 23 out of 2172 is approx 1%.
>
> > Phil H
>
> It's 854, not 2172. So do they just ignore those 23 guys, or do they
> nail them to the wall. Or do they toss a coin for each one?
>
> It depends if you want a system that blindly follows the rules with a
> known probability of making errors or if you want to take into
> consideration a known percentage of riders who will be outside of
> certain limits. There is always going to be a compromise between false
> accusation and dopers going undetected.
>
> Phil H

I know that of course, I was just pointing out how inconsistent they
are with arbitrary distinctions between when they deem something to be
important and when it is not.

Joseph
 
Phil Holman wrote:
> This kind of data are usually bell shaped ......how's that?

Give me some breast shaped data.
 
On May 3, 10:16 am, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:

> This kind of data are usually bell shaped ......how's that?

I'm not sure these data will be symmetric at all. This is a population
chosen for being exceptional so I don't know what distributions of
their lab values will look like.
 
"Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ae90a0f3-c305-4d91-9961-f61ae2040708@l28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On May 3, 10:16 am, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
>
>> This kind of data are usually bell shaped ......how's that?
>
> I'm not sure these data will be symmetric at all. This is a population
> chosen for being exceptional so I don't know what distributions of
> their lab values will look like.

Exceptional performance quite probably correlates to exceptional body
chemistry. The range will be narrower and in the region conducive with
high performance but why the uncertainty over distribution shape? Does a
testing limit provide a wall for the data to pile up against? That would
imply extensive illegal manipulation don't yer think?

Phil H
 
On May 3, 1:43 pm, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:

> Exceptional performance quite probably correlates to exceptional body
> chemistry. The range will be narrower and in the region conducive with
> high performance but why the uncertainty over distribution shape? Does a
> testing limit provide a wall for the data to pile up against? That would
> imply extensive illegal manipulation don't yer think?

Not necessarily. Depends on the thing being measured. Conditional on
being a pro athlete, what do you think their age distribution looks
like? Will it be normally distributed?
 
"Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:19a543ad-3f64-4703-835b-a001e11e78c8@x19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On May 3, 7:17 am, "Phil Holman" <piholmanc@yourservice> wrote:
>
>> Data are usually normally distributed.
>
> That's an unusual usage of "usually."

Ahh yes, the Chung chart equivalent of telling everyone that professional
cyclists all have the same physiological deviations as a jail full of drug
addicts.
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> It's 854, not 2172. So do they just ignore those 23 guys, or do they
> nail them to the wall. Or do they toss a coin for each one?

Keith is all for torturing them until they confess whatever you want them to
confess.
 
On May 4, 4:26 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Robert Chung" wrote
> > On May 3, 7:17 am, "Phil Holman" wrote:
>
> >> Data are usually normally distributed.
>
> > That's an unusual usage of "usually."
>
> Ahh yes, the Chung chart equivalent of telling everyone that professional
> cyclists all have the same physiological deviations as a jail full of drug
> addicts.

Tom:

How appropriate that you bring up drugs. It appears your meds need
adjustment.

--Robert

P.S. In France it'd be covered.
 
"Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:a200d340-98f7-4ebc-b0ef-6f0248be70e4@s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> On May 4, 4:26 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>> Ahh yes, the Chung chart equivalent of telling everyone that professional
>> cyclists all have the same physiological deviations as a jail full of
>> drug
>> addicts.
>
> How appropriate that you bring up drugs. It appears your meds need
> adjustment.

Shouldn't you put up a chart proving that all professional cyclists use
drugs?
 
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