Sodium Phosphate loading

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by vitiris, Jul 1, 2004.

  1. vitiris

    vitiris New Member

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    Thought my experience might be of interest. I am taking part in the Etape and have decided to load with tri-basic Sodium Phosphate. I started on Tuesday intending to load 4 days this week followed by 3 next week starting Wednesday. I took part in a 10 m TT this evening and was 22secs slower than 4 weeks ago on the same course. There was a heavy cross wind and all times were substantially slower including a clubmate who was down 1:08 (others were off by 1:30). I am no fitter than I was previously so can only assume that I had about 30-40 secs advantage from the loading. It was noticeable that I had no problems with the legs but I was restricted in my breathing. I was cycling for some time at 95% of my MHR. I will finish the story after the Etape if I survive!

    Sean
     
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  2. bikeguy

    bikeguy New Member

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    I think trisodium phosphate is toxic (Na3P04). Don't eat that! Sodium bicarbonate is a better buffering agent. I've read that buffering agents such as bicarbonate improved endurance although these studies were done on poorly trained subjects.

    Good luck in your race.
     
  3. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    we used tribasic dodecahyrate sodium phosphate (Na3PO4.12H2O) and found an ~ 8% increase in power output in a randomised, placebo, double-blind, crossover methodology. we tested performance in a lab 10-mile TT. see http://cyclecoach.com/articles?article=Phosphates&ext=.htm and in can. j. applied physiology 2001 (A).

    ric
     
  4. bikeguy

    bikeguy New Member

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    Never mind, I'll just read the study. 8% is a good increase.
     
  5. bikeguy

    bikeguy New Member

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    How is the Na3P04 administered? It must be a very dilute solution, it's a very alkaline substance.
     
  6. steve007

    steve007 New Member

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    To my knowledge it takes 3-4 days of loading for results, but perhaps Ric can indicate exact dosage etc and maybe even a source as I've looked at it before, but been put off by price!
     
  7. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    we used a 5-day load, 1g, four times/day, with the phosphate 'dissolved' in ~ 500 mL of flavoured squash drink (not sure what squash is called in countries other than the UK).

    Phosphate, if you can get hold of it, is dirt cheap. off the top of my head, it must have been about UK£20 for 1kg, when we purchased in '98. that's more than 12 years supply!!

    ric
     
  8. steve007

    steve007 New Member

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    Thanks Ric, very interesting. I've read there are different types, is there a particular type (bearing in mind there is dibasic,monobasic,tribasic to choose from) you would favour?
     
  9. bikeguy

    bikeguy New Member

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    It has a pH of 11.5 in 0.1% solution. I think I'll steer clear.
     
  10. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    ummm, see above! 3rd post. ;)
     
  11. steve007

    steve007 New Member

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    uhhh ahhhh yes.....:D

    Didnt see it. Maybe i should be concentrating on Omega 3;)
     
  12. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    i thought you were trying to test me :D
     
  13. steve007

    steve007 New Member

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    haha no, we have come through the loading phase;)
     
  14. steve007

    steve007 New Member

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    Incidentally, I have found a source.

    http://www.romil.com/index.htm

    http://www.romil.com/sars.htm#A7553

    tri-Sodium Phosphate 12H2O SA
    (Sodium Phosphate tribasic)
    Code A7553
    Standard Pack 500g 2½KG
    S:24/25-26 EC:[231-509-8]
    Na3PO4.12H2O MW 380.12 d 0.80 CAS [10101-89-0]
    Assay >98%
    Free alkali as NaOH <2.5%
    Chloride <0.01%
    Sulphate <0.01%
    Heavy metals as Pb <0.001%

    I'm not sure if they will supply to me, or even how much it is. But so far its the only UK source for loose powder, and buying tablets is a rip off in my opinion!
     
  15. vitiris

    vitiris New Member

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    A rip off is only relative! To gain 30 secs on a personal best on a 10 m TT one might need to buy some Hed or Mavic wheels at ? Don't know how much it is going to benefit me now in the Etape as I was taken out by another rider on a 200 km Audax on Sunday and am a little bit the worse for wear. I must admit that I had thought a crash on the Etape was a possibility but an Audax ride!

    Sean
     
  16. steve007

    steve007 New Member

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    Its not really relative, my statement relates to capsule content/cost in relation to loose powder content/cost. I can buy enough powder to make 2000 1 gram capsules for £19. A big saving or what?!!
     
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