Some things never change

So Vandeman is still lurking this list. I haven't checked the mountain bike news group out in
several years. Here's some things about Vandiman. He is an obsessive compulsive, why else do you
think he can keep posting to this list for years on end.

Last I knew he lived somewhere in he Bay Area around Berkeley.

He rides horses and has riden the parts of the Pacific Crest Trail.

His neighbors think he is strange and leave him alone, He bugs them, too.

There will always be people that respond to him. If you do respond use his personal email address or
work address. After an email or two he will start to screen you out of his email, get another
address and start again. Of course you will be the only person getting pleasure out of this since it
won't stop him.

He attends meetings around the Bay area to get Mountain Bikes off trails. He is a bigoted liar and
lives in denial over the fact that horses do way more damage than bikes. He actual has a degree in
Math or something but is pretty stupid as soon as he gets off the subject of Math.

 

Yeah, we know. :^(

 

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:08:02 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

.So Vandeman is still lurking this list. I haven't checked the mountain .bike news group out in
several years. Here's some things about .Vandiman. .He is an obsessive compulsive, why else do you
think he can keep .posting to this list for years on end. . .Last I knew he lived somewhere in he
Bay Area around Berkeley. . .He rides horses and has riden the parts of the Pacific Crest Trail. .
.His neighbors think he is strange and leave him alone, He bugs them, .too. . .There will always be
people that respond to him. If you do respond use .his personal email address or work address. After
an email or two he .will start to screen you out of his email, get another address and .start again.
Of course you will be the only person getting pleasure .out of this since it won't stop him. . .He
attends meetings around the Bay area to get Mountain Bikes off .trails. He is a bigoted liar and
lives in denial over the fact that .horses do way more damage than bikes. He actual has a degree in
Math .or something but is pretty stupid as soon as he gets off the subject .of Math.

What a crock. I guess that's why you are afraid to use your real name. Does LIBEL SUIT mean
anything to you?
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

<notice the triming Mikey? Good, try it sometime!>
> What a crock. I guess that's why you are afraid to use your real name.
Does
> LIBEL SUIT mean anything to you?

He-he, That's rich, Mikey threatening a Libel suit. Thanks Mikey, I needed some humour in my day,
your always good for belly laugh.

 

Mike Vandeman wrote:
> Does LIBEL SUIT mean anything to you?

Weren't they real popular in the '70's or something?

Bill "too little libel time lately" S.

 

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:46:43 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:08:02 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>
>.So Vandeman is still lurking this list. I haven't checked the mountain .bike news group out in
>several years. Here's some things about .Vandiman. .He is an obsessive compulsive, why else do you
>think he can keep .posting to this list for years on end. . .Last I knew he lived somewhere in he
>Bay Area around Berkeley. . .He rides horses and has riden the parts of the Pacific Crest Trail. .
>.His neighbors think he is strange and leave him alone, He bugs them, .too. . .There will always be
>people that respond to him. If you do respond use .his personal email address or work address.
>After an email or two he .will start to screen you out of his email, get another address and .start
>again. Of course you will be the only person getting pleasure .out of this since it won't stop him.
>. .He attends meetings around the Bay area to get Mountain Bikes off .trails. He is a bigoted liar
>and lives in denial over the fact that .horses do way more damage than bikes. He actual has a
>degree in Math .or something but is pretty stupid as soon as he gets off the subject .of Math.
>
>What a crock. I guess that's why you are afraid to use your real name. Does LIBEL SUIT mean
>anything to you?
>===
>I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
>help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Let's see Mike you have time to troll this list and respond to all kinds of minutia as your reply to
the above post suggests. That re-enforces the obsessive compulsive part.

You deny being obsessive compulsive by threatening a libel suit which shows you are a liar to your
self and everyone else.

You ride horses as far as I know, unless you quite because they do so much trail damage.

I saw a letter to the editor from you in the paper some years ago about some meeting about trails
and mountain bikes.

You are pretty stupid as evidenced by your continuing to think you can have any effect on the people
in this group unless it is to galvanize them in the opposite directions you intend or is that just
part of the obsessive compulsive thing to do stupid stuff in spite of yourself?

I'd say the post has you pretty well pegged.

 

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:02:11 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

.On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:46:43 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> .wrote: . .>On Mon, 01 Mar
2004 18:08:02 -0800, [email protected] wrote: .> .>.So Vandeman is still lurking this list. I
haven't checked the mountain .>.bike news group out in several years. Here's some things about
.>.Vandiman. .>.He is an obsessive compulsive, why else do you think he can keep .>.posting to
this list for years on end. .>. .>.Last I knew he lived somewhere in he Bay Area around Berkeley.
.>. .>.He rides horses and has riden the parts of the Pacific Crest Trail. .>. .>.His neighbors
think he is strange and leave him alone, He bugs them, .>.too. .>. .>.There will always be people
that respond to him. If you do respond use .>.his personal email address or work address. After an
email or two he .>.will start to screen you out of his email, get another address and .>.start
again. Of course you will be the only person getting pleasure .>.out of this since it won't stop
him. .>. .>.He attends meetings around the Bay area to get Mountain Bikes off .>.trails. He is a
bigoted liar and lives in denial over the fact that .>.horses do way more damage than bikes. He
actual has a degree in Math .>.or something but is pretty stupid as soon as he gets off the
subject .>.of Math. .> .>What a crock. I guess that's why you are afraid to use your real name.
Does .>LIBEL SUIT mean anything to you? .>=== .>I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is
off-limits to .>humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .>years fighting
auto dependence and road construction.) .> .>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande . .Let's see Mike you
have time to troll this list and respond to all .kinds of minutia as your reply to the above post
suggests. That .re-enforces the obsessive compulsive part. . .You deny being obsessive compulsive
by threatening a libel suit which .shows you are a liar to your self and everyone else. . .You
ride horses as far as I know,

Prove it.

unless you quite because they do so .much trail damage. . .I saw a letter to the editor from you in
the paper some years ago .about some meeting about trails and mountain bikes. . .You are pretty
stupid as evidenced by your continuing to think you can .have any effect on the people in this
group unless it is to galvanize .them in the opposite directions you intend or is that just part of
the .obsessive compulsive thing to do stupid stuff in spite of yourself? . .I'd say the post has
you pretty well pegged.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

Mike Vandeman wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:02:11 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>. You ride horses as far as I know,
>
> Prove it.
>

Why should he prove that you ride horses? If you don't just tell us so and we will believe you. It's
not a big thing you know and nobody probably even cares whether you do or don't.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:38:28 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]>
wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:02:11 -0800, [email protected] wrote: .>. You ride
horses as far as I know, .> .> Prove it. .> . .Why should he prove that you ride horses? If you
don't just tell us so and .we will believe you. It's not a big thing you know and nobody probably
even .cares whether you do or don't.

The point is that mountain bikers lie all the time, never bothering to check any of their
assertions.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

Mike Vandeman wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:38:28 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:02:11 -0800, [email protected] wrote: .>. You
> ride horses as far as I know, .> .> Prove it. .> . .Why should he prove that you ride horses? If
> you don't just tell us so and .we will believe you. It's not a big thing you know and nobody
> probably even .cares whether you do or don't.
>
> The point is that mountain bikers lie all the time, never bothering to check any of their
> assertions.

Now that is a big lie. I just happen to know one that doesn't lie.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:38:00 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]>
wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:38:28 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" .>
<perDOTelmsa[email protected]> wrote: .> .> .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> .> On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:02:11 -
0800, [email protected] wrote: .> .>. You ride horses as far as I know, .> .> .> .> Prove it. .>
.> .> . .> .Why should he prove that you ride horses? If you don't just tell us .> so and .we will
believe you. It's not a big thing you know and nobody .> probably even .cares whether you do or
don't. .> .> The point is that mountain bikers lie all the time, never bothering .> to check any of
their assertions. . .Now that is a big lie. I just happen to know one that doesn't lie.

In general, they do, which is what I just said. I have yet to meet one that doesn't lie constantly.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

Mike Vandeman wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:38:28 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:02:11 -0800, [email protected] wrote: .>. You
> ride horses as far as I know, .> .> Prove it. .> . .Why should he prove that you ride horses? If
> you don't just tell us so and .we will believe you. It's not a big thing you know and nobody
> probably even .cares whether you do or don't.
>
> The point is that mountain bikers lie all the time, never bothering to check any of their
> assertions.

Then given that you regularly lie (you have been caught and it has been pointed out to you far to
numerous to repeat - just google, but you continue to deny just like the pathelogical liar that you
are) you must be a mountain biker.

 

Mike Vandeman wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:38:00 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:38:28 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" .>
> <[email protected]> wrote: .> .> .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> .> On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:02:11
> -0800, [email protected] wrote: .> .>. You ride horses as far as I know, .> .> .> .> Prove it.
> .> .> .> . .> .Why should he prove that you ride horses? If you don't just tell us .> so and .we
> will believe you. It's not a big thing you know and nobody .> probably even .cares whether you do
> or don't. .> .> The point is that mountain bikers lie all the time, never bothering .> to check
> any of their assertions. . .Now that is a big lie. I just happen to know one that doesn't lie.
>
> In general, they do, which is what I just said. I have yet to meet one that doesn't lie
> constantly.

No you didn't say that they lie in general. You said that they lie all the time. It is in plain
writing still quoted in this post. We have a saying that freely translated goes something like "he
who accuses others of a fault usually is the one at fault". And that ain't no lie ;( Mikey.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 05:39:46 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:38:00 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>.Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:38:28 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" .>
><[email protected]> wrote: .> .> .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> .> On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:02:11
>-0800, [email protected] wrote: .> .>. You ride horses as far as I know, .> .> .> .> Prove it. .>
>.> .> . .> .Why should he prove that you ride horses? If you don't just tell us .> so and .we will
>believe you. It's not a big thing you know and nobody .> probably even .cares whether you do or
>don't. .> .> The point is that mountain bikers lie all the time, never bothering .> to check any of
>their assertions. . .Now that is a big lie. I just happen to know one that doesn't lie.
>
>In general, they do, which is what I just said. I have yet to meet one that doesn't lie constantly.

By the way Mike, do they know that you are writing to forums again on work time or did you get a
promotion? The fact that you work for Pacbell says a lot about their service.

 

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 06:23:23 GMT, Rick Hopkins <[email protected]> wrote:

. . .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:38:28 GMT, "Per Elmsäter"
<[email protected]> .> wrote: .> .> .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> .> On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:02:11
-0800, [email protected] wrote: .> .>. You ride horses as far as I know, .> .> .> .> Prove it. .>
.> .> . .> .Why should he prove that you ride horses? If you don't just tell us so and .> .we will
believe you. It's not a big thing you know and nobody probably even .> .cares whether you do or
don't. .> .> The point is that mountain bikers lie all the time, never bothering to check any .> of
their assertions. . .Then given that you regularly lie (you have been caught and it has been
.pointed out to you far to numerous to repeat - just google, but you .continue to deny just like the
pathelogical liar that you are)

You are lying, as all mountain bikers do. I don't lie. That's why mountain bikers like you can't
understand me.

you must .be a mountain biker.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:25:17 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]>
wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:38:00 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" .>
<[email protected]> wrote: .> .> .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> .> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:38:28
GMT, "Per Elmsäter" .> .> <[email protected]> wrote: .> .> .> .> .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> .>
.> On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:02:11 -0800, [email protected] wrote: .> .> .>. You ride horses as far
as I know, .> .> .> .> .> .> Prove it. .> .> .> .> .> . .> .> .Why should he prove that you ride
horses? If you don't just tell .> us .> so and .we will believe you. It's not a big thing you know
and .> nobody .> probably even .cares whether you do or don't. .> .> .> .> The point is that
mountain bikers lie all the time, never bothering .> .> to check any of their assertions. .> . .>
.Now that is a big lie. I just happen to know one that doesn't lie. .> .> In general, they do, which
is what I just said. I have yet to meet .> one that doesn't lie constantly. . . .No you didn't say
that they lie in general. You said that they lie all the .time. It is in plain writing still quoted
in this post.

That's the same thing.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 17:00:43 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
wrote:

>.> .> . .> .> .Why should he prove that you ride horses? If you don't just tell .> us .> so and .we
>will believe you. It's not a big thing you know and .> nobody .> probably even .cares whether you
>do or don't. .> .> .> .> The point is that mountain bikers lie all the time, never bothering .> .>
>to check any of their assertions. .> . .> .Now that is a big lie. I just happen to know one that
>doesn't lie. .> .> In general, they do, which is what I just said. I have yet to meet .> one that
>doesn't lie constantly. . . .No you didn't say that they lie in general. You said that they lie all
>the .time. It is in plain writing still quoted in this post.
>
>That's the same thing.
>
>===
>I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
>help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike, my boy, enough of this liar thing, there is no bigger liar than you on this site. The Sierra
club caught you lying big time and barred you from holding office or ever being a spokesman for
their organization because on numerous occasions you spewed forth your radical views and represented
yourself and the your positions as those of the Sierra Club, knowing your were not a spokesman and
that your views were not shared by the club.

The reason the took action against you is because your lying was damaging the clubs reputation. Now
that is not harmless lying. Unlike the lying you claim goes on with "all" mountain bikers which is
mostly harmless and most often just honest mistakes.

Then there is the lie you perpetuate about your being some kind of deep ecologist. What crap, the
stuff you write on your website is unsubstatiated nonsense. You say you laid under a tree one fine
day and it felt great. So you suddenly start saying how great it is to be a tree based on your
feelings of being under it and euphoric. So now you go around hugging trees and trying to save
whip snakes. Luckily it wasn't rainy and cold when you were under that tree or you would have
hated trees.

Essentially what you have done is mistaken your feelings for the trees. It's curious that you could
have so much empathy for a tree when your own personal relations are so poor. I suspect that is why
you got a minor degree in phycology, so you could figure out why you were different from the norm
and reconcile that some way.

Instead you have grown up with poor interpersonal skills and quite likely no good friends. Maybe you
have a few aquiantences but I suspect most of them give you lip service and agree with because you
are such a bore to listen to when you argue.

Anyway lucky for you the Internet came along so you could invent the field of "Deep Ecology" and
fool a few people into thinking you had something to say. I bet you never get invited to the same
conference twice once they figure out they have been had. You must of hated the FAQ that bike folks
had listed on you at one time because theses same people could find it so easy and realized what
hack you were.

That brings me to another lie. You have Dr's in Math and a minor, I believe, in Psychology, yet, you
present this image on the WEB like you are some kind of Enviromental Expert. Obviously this ruse
doesn't work with the trained enviromentalists and it's easy to see why. It's the old stupid people
don't know they are stupid syndrome. Your writings on your website lack credibility because you work
off your own internal logic and don't use facts and figures to support you "intuitive" claims.

There is one good thing about you, though, you're more interesting than some of the monosyllabic cut
and pasters in this forum, who can't seem to put a paragraph together, but then that's not saying a
lot, is it?

 

Mike Vandeman wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:25:17 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:38:00 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" .>
> <[email protected]> wrote: .> .> .Mike Vandeman wrote: .> .> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:38:28
> GMT, "Per Elmsäter" .> .> <[email protected]> wrote: .> .> .> .> .Mike Vandeman wrote: .>
> .> .> On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:02:11 -0800, [email protected] wrote: .> .> .>. You ride horses as
> far as I know, .> .> .> .> .> .> Prove it. .> .> .> .> .> . .> .> .Why should he prove that you
> ride horses? If you don't just tell .> us .> so and .we will believe you. It's not a big thing you
> know and .> nobody .> probably even .cares whether you do or don't. .> .> .> .> The point is that
> mountain bikers lie all the time, never bothering .> .> to check any of their assertions. .> . .>
> .Now that is a big lie. I just happen to know one that doesn't lie. .> .> In general, they do,
> which is what I just said. I have yet to meet .> one that doesn't lie constantly. . . .No you
> didn't say that they lie in general. You said that they lie all the .time. It is in plain writing
> still quoted in this post.
>
> That's the same thing.
>

Are you trying to lie straight in my face? I'd think your english would be at least as good as mine
and I know it ain't the same thing.

> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
> help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

[email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 17:00:43 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> .> .> . .> .> .Why should he prove that you ride horses? If you don't just tell .> us .> so and
>> .we will believe you. It's not a big thing you know and .> nobody .> probably even .cares whether
>> you do or don't. .> .> .> .> The point is that mountain bikers lie all the time, never bothering
>> .> .> to check any of their assertions. .> . .> .Now that is a big lie. I just happen to know one
>> that doesn't
>> lie. .> .> In general, they do, which is what I just said. I have yet to meet .> one that doesn't
>> lie constantly. . . .No you didn't say that they lie in general. You said that they lie all
>> the .time. It is in plain writing still quoted in this post.
>>
>> That's the same thing.
>>
>> ===
>> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
>> help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>>
>> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
>
> Mike, my boy, enough of this liar thing, there is no bigger liar than you on this site. The Sierra
> club caught you lying big time and barred you from holding office or ever being a spokesman for
> their organization because on numerous occasions you spewed forth your radical views and
> represented yourself and the your positions as those of the Sierra Club, knowing your were not a
> spokesman and that your views were not shared by the club.
>
> The reason the took action against you is because your lying was damaging the clubs reputation.
> Now that is not harmless lying. Unlike the lying you claim goes on with "all" mountain bikers
> which is mostly harmless and most often just honest mistakes.
>
> Then there is the lie you perpetuate about your being some kind of deep ecologist. What crap, the
> stuff you write on your website is unsubstatiated nonsense. You say you laid under a tree one fine
> day and it felt great. So you suddenly start saying how great it is to be a tree based on your
> feelings of being under it and euphoric. So now you go around hugging trees and trying to save
> whip snakes. Luckily it wasn't rainy and cold when you were under that tree or you would have
> hated trees.
>
> Essentially what you have done is mistaken your feelings for the trees. It's curious that you
> could have so much empathy for a tree when your own personal relations are so poor. I suspect that
> is why you got a minor degree in phycology, so you could figure out why you were different from
> the norm and reconcile that some way.
>
> Instead you have grown up with poor interpersonal skills and quite likely no good friends. Maybe
> you have a few aquiantences but I suspect most of them give you lip service and agree with because
> you are such a bore to listen to when you argue.
>
> Anyway lucky for you the Internet came along so you could invent the field of "Deep Ecology" and
> fool a few people into thinking you had something to say. I bet you never get invited to the same
> conference twice once they figure out they have been had. You must of hated the FAQ that bike
> folks had listed on you at one time because theses same people could find it so easy and realized
> what hack you were.
>
> That brings me to another lie. You have Dr's in Math and a minor, I believe, in Psychology, yet,
> you present this image on the WEB like you are some kind of Enviromental Expert. Obviously this
> ruse doesn't work with the trained enviromentalists and it's easy to see why. It's the old stupid
> people don't know they are stupid syndrome. Your writings on your website lack credibility
> because you work off your own internal logic and don't use facts and figures to support you
> "intuitive" claims.
>
> There is one good thing about you, though, you're more interesting than some of the monosyllabic
> cut and pasters in this forum, who can't seem to put a paragraph together, but then that's not
> saying a lot, is it?

I must say. Your paragraphs are astounding
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

 

Your lying interpretation is you don't lie, but you lie everyday on newsgroup; that is why you can't
stand mt. bikers is that caught you in so many lies. You have been exposed as a fool.