SOMETIMES RIDING BIKES IS BAD FOR YOUR YOU



T

Tom Sherman

Guest
Bob Hunt wrote:
> On Nov 13, 7:54 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> Bob Hunt wrote:
>>> On Nov 12, 7:29 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> Give it a rest. Your "world weary cynic" act isn't hip. It is actually
>>>>> rather pathetic, particularly from someone that hasn't experienced or
>>>>> even seen first hand the violence and evil you claim is the natural
>>>>> state of the human race.
>>>> And how would you know what I have and have not seen?
>>> Enlighten me. How many incidents of intentional violence *have* you
>>> seen? A person cutting in line in front of you at Starbucks doesn't
>>> count unless someone hits the floor. Neither does watching television
>>> or attending an NFL or NHL game.

>> The point is Bob Hunt made an assumption with no evidence. Correct?
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
>> "the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.

>
> That may be your point but it doesn't answer the question, does it?
> You seem to be easily sidetracked so I'll repeat it once more before
> letting the matter drop entirely.


How about answering my question. Did you make an assumption, or do you
have actual knowledge?

> How many incidents of intentional violence *have* you seen?


Why not answer my question?

> Surely if things are as bad as you say it
> shouldn't be that hard for you to think of a few examples. I mean, you
> have written in this thread, "Mostly there is violence - physical,
> economic and emotional.


Most people do treat each other badly. However, they rationalize their
behavior to the point they can no longer see reality.

> Hominids have a long way to go to become a
> moral species." and "Well, contemporary Western society is lacking in
> pretty much everything but material wealth." Or are you saying that
> things are just fine where you are but they are horrible everywhere
> else?


Neither.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.
 
B

Bob

Guest
On Nov 13, 9:34 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Bob Hunt wrote:
> > On Nov 13, 7:54 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> Bob Hunt wrote:
> >>> On Nov 12, 7:29 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>> Give it a rest. Your "world weary cynic" act isn't hip. It is actually
> >>>>> rather pathetic, particularly from someone that hasn't experienced or
> >>>>> even seen first hand the violence and evil you claim is the natural
> >>>>> state of the human race.
> >>>> And how would you know what I have and have not seen?
> >>> Enlighten me. How many incidents of intentional violence *have* you
> >>> seen? A person cutting in line in front of you at Starbucks doesn't
> >>> count unless someone hits the floor. Neither does watching television
> >>> or attending an NFL or NHL game.
> >> The point is Bob Hunt made an assumption with no evidence. Correct?

>
> >> --
> >> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> >> "the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.

>
> > That may be your point but it doesn't answer the question, does it?
> > You seem to be easily sidetracked so I'll repeat it once more before
> > letting the matter drop entirely.

>
> How about answering my question. Did you make an assumption, or do you
> have actual knowledge?
>
> > How many incidents of intentional violence *have* you seen?

>
> Why not answer my question?
>
> > Surely if things are as bad as you say it
> > shouldn't be that hard for you to think of a few examples. I mean, you
> > have written in this thread, "Mostly there is violence - physical,
> > economic and emotional.

>
> Most people do treat each other badly. However, they rationalize their
> behavior to the point they can no longer see reality.
>
> > Hominids have a long way to go to become a
> > moral species." and "Well, contemporary Western society is lacking in
> > pretty much everything but material wealth." Or are you saying that
> > things are just fine where you are but they are horrible everywhere
> > else?

>
> Neither.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> "the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Since you can't or won't answer the question I put to you first I
will, as I said earlier, let the matter drop entirely. Discussion with
someone that refuses to follow the simple rule of "first asked, first
answered" is simply not worth my time. You may now claim to have "won"
the argument.

Regards,
Bob Hunt
 
T

Tom Sherman

Guest
Bob Hunt wrote:
> On Nov 13, 9:34 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> Bob Hunt wrote:
>>> On Nov 13, 7:54 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Bob Hunt wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 12, 7:29 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Give it a rest. Your "world weary cynic" act isn't hip. It is actually
>>>>>>> rather pathetic, particularly from someone that hasn't experienced or
>>>>>>> even seen first hand the violence and evil you claim is the natural
>>>>>>> state of the human race.
>>>>>> And how would you know what I have and have not seen?
>>>>> Enlighten me. How many incidents of intentional violence *have* you
>>>>> seen? A person cutting in line in front of you at Starbucks doesn't
>>>>> count unless someone hits the floor. Neither does watching television
>>>>> or attending an NFL or NHL game.
>>>> The point is Bob Hunt made an assumption with no evidence. Correct?
>>>> --
>>>> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
>>>> "the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.
>>> That may be your point but it doesn't answer the question, does it?
>>> You seem to be easily sidetracked so I'll repeat it once more before
>>> letting the matter drop entirely.

>> How about answering my question. Did you make an assumption, or do you
>> have actual knowledge?
>>
>>> How many incidents of intentional violence *have* you seen?

>> Why not answer my question?
>>
>>> Surely if things are as bad as you say it
>>> shouldn't be that hard for you to think of a few examples. I mean, you
>>> have written in this thread, "Mostly there is violence - physical,
>>> economic and emotional.

>> Most people do treat each other badly. However, they rationalize their
>> behavior to the point they can no longer see reality.
>>
>>> Hominids have a long way to go to become a
>>> moral species." and "Well, contemporary Western society is lacking in
>>> pretty much everything but material wealth." Or are you saying that
>>> things are just fine where you are but they are horrible everywhere
>>> else?

>> Neither.
>>
>> --
>> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
>> "the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

>
> Since you can't or won't answer the question I put to you first I
> will, as I said earlier, let the matter drop entirely. Discussion with
> someone that refuses to follow the simple rule of "first asked, first
> answered" is simply not worth my time. You may now claim to have "won"
> the argument.


No, Bob Hunt started with an assumption, not a question. I put the
question to Bob Hunt first, as reading the text above will reveal. By
Bob Hunt's rule of "first asked, first answered", he needs to state how
he knows what I have seen and not seen? Do he have special psychic
powers or spies in his employ?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.
 
B

Bob

Guest
On Nov 13, 10:16 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected].com>
wrote:

> No, Bob Hunt started with an assumption, not a question. I put the
> question to Bob Hunt first, as reading the text above will reveal. By
> Bob Hunt's rule of "first asked, first answered", he needs to state how
> he knows what I have seen and not seen? Do he have special psychic
> powers or spies in his employ?
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> "the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


What I wrote wasn't so much an assumption as an accusation but I'll
answer your question.
When people post to a thread here about the dangers of being "left
hooked", they almost invariably relate a personal experience that
either happened to them or that they witnessed. The same is true for
"wrong way rider" threads, threads about various equipment issues,
helmet threads, etcetera. There's a pattern there you see. Your
contributions here follow that pattern. When you write about the
advantages of bents versus uprights you always mention your own bent
experience for example. Yet when you launch one of your. "the Western
world is filled with violent and evil people" diatribes, the only
examples of that evil and violence you can cite aren't really examples
of evil but merely references to headlines and the inferences you draw
from them. Based on the striking lack of any personal examples, I
concluded that you have no such examples to offer.
Now that I have answered your question, how about answering mine? In
case you've forgotten my question was, "How many incidents of
intentional violence *have* you seen?" As a reminder, someone cutting
in line in front of you at Starbucks doesn't count unless someone hits
the floor. Neither does watching television or attending an NFL or NHL
game.

Regards,
Bob Hunt
 
T

Tom Sherman

Guest
Google Groups user Bob Hunt wrote:
> On Nov 13, 10:16 pm, Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>> No, Bob Hunt started with an assumption, not a question. I put the
>> question to Bob Hunt first, as reading the text above will reveal. By
>> Bob Hunt's rule of "first asked, first answered", he needs to state how
>> he knows what I have seen and not seen? Do he have special psychic
>> powers or spies in his employ?
>>

>
> What I wrote wasn't so much an assumption as an accusation but I'll
> answer your question.
> When people post to a thread here about the dangers of being "left
> hooked", they almost invariably relate a personal experience that
> either happened to them or that they witnessed. The same is true for
> "wrong way rider" threads, threads about various equipment issues,
> helmet threads, etcetera. There's a pattern there you see. Your
> contributions here follow that pattern. When you write about the
> advantages of bents versus uprights you always mention your own bent
> experience for example. Yet when you launch one of your. "the Western
> world is filled with violent and evil people" diatribes, the only
> examples of that evil and violence you can cite aren't really examples
> of evil but merely references to headlines and the inferences you draw
> from them. Based on the striking lack of any personal examples, I
> concluded that you have no such examples to offer.


That "conclusion" should have been stated as an assumption, not as a
known fact. I find that behavior troubling.

> Now that I have answered your question, how about answering mine? In
> case you've forgotten my question was, "How many incidents of
> intentional violence *have* you seen?"


Several dozen.

> As a reminder, someone cutting
> in line in front of you at Starbucks doesn't count unless someone hits
> the floor. Neither does watching television or attending an NFL or NHL
> game.


I have never been to a Starbucks, NFL game or NHL game.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.
 
B

Bob

Guest
On Nov 16, 2:07 am, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Google Groups user Bob Hunt wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 13, 10:16 pm, Tom Sherman wrote:

>
> >> No, Bob Hunt started with an assumption, not a question. I put the
> >> question to Bob Hunt first, as reading the text above will reveal. By
> >> Bob Hunt's rule of "first asked, first answered", he needs to state how
> >> he knows what I have seen and not seen? Do he have special psychic
> >> powers or spies in his employ?

>
> > What I wrote wasn't so much an assumption as an accusation but I'll
> > answer your question.
> > When people post to a thread here about the dangers of being "left
> > hooked", they almost invariably relate a personal experience that
> > either happened to them or that they witnessed. The same is true for
> > "wrong way rider" threads, threads about various equipment issues,
> > helmet threads, etcetera. There's a pattern there you see. Your
> > contributions here follow that pattern. When you write about the
> > advantages of bents versus uprights you always mention your own bent
> > experience for example. Yet when you launch one of your. "the Western
> > world is filled with violent and evil people" diatribes, the only
> > examples of that evil and violence you can cite aren't really examples
> > of evil but merely references to headlines and the inferences you draw
> > from them. Based on the striking lack of any personal examples, I
> > concluded that you have no such examples to offer.

>
> That "conclusion" should have been stated as an assumption, not as a
> known fact. I find that behavior troubling.
>
> > Now that I have answered your question, how about answering mine? In
> > case you've forgotten my question was, "How many incidents of
> > intentional violence *have* you seen?"

>
> Several dozen.
>


So then out of the hundreds of thousands of human interactions you've
had or have witnessed since achieving adulthood (and assuming you are
not a hermit that is a low approximation) you've witnessed "several
dozen" violent incidents. Not only does that not qualify you as any
kind of expert on the pervasively violent nature of Western society,
it really raises questions about your ability to do such simple
arithmetic as fractions. You are of course entitled to your opinion,
even here in the apparently not-so-violent-and-evil West.

Regards,
Bob Hunt
 
T

Tom Sherman

Guest
Middle USian Bob Hunt wrote:
> On Nov 16, 2:07 am, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> Google Groups user Bob Hunt wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 13, 10:16 pm, Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>> No, Bob Hunt started with an assumption, not a question. I put the
>>>> question to Bob Hunt first, as reading the text above will reveal. By
>>>> Bob Hunt's rule of "first asked, first answered", he needs to state how
>>>> he knows what I have seen and not seen? Do he have special psychic
>>>> powers or spies in his employ?
>>> What I wrote wasn't so much an assumption as an accusation but I'll
>>> answer your question.
>>> When people post to a thread here about the dangers of being "left
>>> hooked", they almost invariably relate a personal experience that
>>> either happened to them or that they witnessed. The same is true for
>>> "wrong way rider" threads, threads about various equipment issues,
>>> helmet threads, etcetera. There's a pattern there you see. Your
>>> contributions here follow that pattern. When you write about the
>>> advantages of bents versus uprights you always mention your own bent
>>> experience for example. Yet when you launch one of your. "the Western
>>> world is filled with violent and evil people" diatribes, the only
>>> examples of that evil and violence you can cite aren't really examples
>>> of evil but merely references to headlines and the inferences you draw
>>> from them. Based on the striking lack of any personal examples, I
>>> concluded that you have no such examples to offer.

>> That "conclusion" should have been stated as an assumption, not as a
>> known fact. I find that behavior troubling.
>>
>>> Now that I have answered your question, how about answering mine? In
>>> case you've forgotten my question was, "How many incidents of
>>> intentional violence *have* you seen?"

>> Several dozen.
>>

>
> So then out of the hundreds of thousands of human interactions you've
> had or have witnessed since achieving adulthood (and assuming you are
> not a hermit that is a low approximation) you've witnessed "several
> dozen" violent incidents. Not only does that not qualify you as any
> kind of expert on the pervasively violent nature of Western society,
> it really raises questions about your ability to do such simple
> arithmetic as fractions. You are of course entitled to your opinion,
> even here in the apparently not-so-violent-and-evil West.


Lose your narrow definition of violence and take off your blinders.
There is a systemic violence built into the system - note that besides
physical violence I was including economic and emotional violence, which
can be just as damaging. But then again, I would not expect a middle
class USian to notice, due to the constant barrage of propaganda from
the media, schools and politicians about how wonderful everything is.

You can brainwash millions of people, it seems.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.
 
B

Bob

Guest
On Nov 16, 8:09 pm Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Middle USian Bob Hunt wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 16, 2:07 am, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> Google Groups user Bob Hunt wrote:

>
> >>> On Nov 13, 10:16 pm, Tom Sherman wrote:
> >>>> No, Bob Hunt started with an assumption, not a question. I put the
> >>>> question to Bob Hunt first, as reading the text above will reveal. By
> >>>> Bob Hunt's rule of "first asked, first answered", he needs to state how
> >>>> he knows what I have seen and not seen? Do he have special psychic
> >>>> powers or spies in his employ?
> >>> What I wrote wasn't so much an assumption as an accusation but I'll
> >>> answer your question.
> >>> When people post to a thread here about the dangers of being "left
> >>> hooked", they almost invariably relate a personal experience that
> >>> either happened to them or that they witnessed. The same is true for
> >>> "wrong way rider" threads, threads about various equipment issues,
> >>> helmet threads, etcetera. There's a pattern there you see. Your
> >>> contributions here follow that pattern. When you write about the
> >>> advantages of bents versus uprights you always mention your own bent
> >>> experience for example. Yet when you launch one of your. "the Western
> >>> world is filled with violent and evil people" diatribes, the only
> >>> examples of that evil and violence you can cite aren't really examples
> >>> of evil but merely references to headlines and the inferences you draw
> >>> from them. Based on the striking lack of any personal examples, I
> >>> concluded that you have no such examples to offer.
> >> That "conclusion" should have been stated as an assumption, not as a
> >> known fact. I find that behavior troubling.

>
> >>> Now that I have answered your question, how about answering mine? In
> >>> case you've forgotten my question was, "How many incidents of
> >>> intentional violence *have* you seen?"
> >> Several dozen.

>
> > So then out of the hundreds of thousands of human interactions you've
> > had or have witnessed since achieving adulthood (and assuming you are
> > not a hermit that is a low approximation) you've witnessed "several
> > dozen" violent incidents. Not only does that not qualify you as any
> > kind of expert on the pervasively violent nature of Western society,
> > it really raises questions about your ability to do such simple
> > arithmetic as fractions. You are of course entitled to your opinion,
> > even here in the apparently not-so-violent-and-evil West.

>
> Lose your narrow definition of violence and take off your blinders.
> There is a systemic violence built into the system - note that besides
> physical violence I was including economic and emotional violence, which
> can be just as damaging. But then again, I would not expect a middle
> class USian to notice, due to the constant barrage of propaganda from
> the media, schools and politicians about how wonderful everything is.
>
> You can brainwash millions of people, it seems.
>


If you think that the only or even the biggest reason that a person
born in say rural China or urban Africa has a lower standard of living
than someone born in a similar circumstances in the West must be the
"economic violence systemic to Western society" or that having one's
feelings hurt is equivalent to being beaten senseless then you're a
fool. On that note- bye.

Bob Hunt
 
T

Tom Sherman

Guest
Middle USian Bob Hunt wrote:
> On Nov 16, 8:09 pm Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> Middle USian Bob Hunt wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 16, 2:07 am, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Google Groups user Bob Hunt wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 13, 10:16 pm, Tom Sherman wrote:
>>>>>> No, Bob Hunt started with an assumption, not a question. I put the
>>>>>> question to Bob Hunt first, as reading the text above will reveal. By
>>>>>> Bob Hunt's rule of "first asked, first answered", he needs to state how
>>>>>> he knows what I have seen and not seen? Do he have special psychic
>>>>>> powers or spies in his employ?
>>>>> What I wrote wasn't so much an assumption as an accusation but I'll
>>>>> answer your question.
>>>>> When people post to a thread here about the dangers of being "left
>>>>> hooked", they almost invariably relate a personal experience that
>>>>> either happened to them or that they witnessed. The same is true for
>>>>> "wrong way rider" threads, threads about various equipment issues,
>>>>> helmet threads, etcetera. There's a pattern there you see. Your
>>>>> contributions here follow that pattern. When you write about the
>>>>> advantages of bents versus uprights you always mention your own bent
>>>>> experience for example. Yet when you launch one of your. "the Western
>>>>> world is filled with violent and evil people" diatribes, the only
>>>>> examples of that evil and violence you can cite aren't really examples
>>>>> of evil but merely references to headlines and the inferences you draw
>>>>> from them. Based on the striking lack of any personal examples, I
>>>>> concluded that you have no such examples to offer.
>>>> That "conclusion" should have been stated as an assumption, not as a
>>>> known fact. I find that behavior troubling.
>>>>> Now that I have answered your question, how about answering mine? In
>>>>> case you've forgotten my question was, "How many incidents of
>>>>> intentional violence *have* you seen?"
>>>> Several dozen.
>>> So then out of the hundreds of thousands of human interactions you've
>>> had or have witnessed since achieving adulthood (and assuming you are
>>> not a hermit that is a low approximation) you've witnessed "several
>>> dozen" violent incidents. Not only does that not qualify you as any
>>> kind of expert on the pervasively violent nature of Western society,
>>> it really raises questions about your ability to do such simple
>>> arithmetic as fractions. You are of course entitled to your opinion,
>>> even here in the apparently not-so-violent-and-evil West.

>> Lose your narrow definition of violence and take off your blinders.
>> There is a systemic violence built into the system - note that besides
>> physical violence I was including economic and emotional violence, which
>> can be just as damaging. But then again, I would not expect a middle
>> class USian to notice, due to the constant barrage of propaganda from
>> the media, schools and politicians about how wonderful everything is.
>>
>> You can brainwash millions of people, it seems.
>>

>
> If you think that the only or even the biggest reason that a person
> born in say rural China or urban Africa has a lower standard of living
> than someone born in a similar circumstances in the West must be the
> "economic violence systemic to Western society" or that having one's
> feelings hurt is equivalent to being beaten senseless then you're a
> fool. On that note- bye.


Why things will not change for the better anytime soon - see above.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.