Specialized frame broken near dropout- can it be fixed?



A

al77

Guest
Hello, I built up a road bike over the winter on a secondhand aluminum
Specialized Allez Elite A1 frame from made in 2000. After lots of
tinkering & short test rides I finally took it out for a proper ride
on saturday. 40 miles in & I suddenly got a strange loose feeling on
the downstrokes with the cranks. I assumed a crank bolt, BB or pedal
was loose but when i got off & took a look I was horrified to find the
frame has broken completely just where the chainstay meets the rear
dropout on the drive side.

The frame was an ebay buy for £120 & it's maddening to think the
seller may not have been honest about the condition / history of the
bike. It must've had some impact in the past to weaken that area?
The break runs right through one of the holes where the rear mech
hangers attaches to the frame, maybe this was overtightened weakening
the frame at that point?

Anyway, I've taken some pictures, it would be good to get some
opinions on whether people think this is fixable / worth fixing. The
frame material is 'enhanced butted aluminum'

I hope the pictures work, thanks in advance, Alan

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwCDDsIQ9OnZ98F2LiNvJPlL3rcsy9tfyvRj38Km*ZHzKR8qWHH!2zLCoh*9jZCFcui6aTTSiYT9v7Iujsx*qD3NpsAFpG3c/DSCF1011.JPG?dc=4675615810049230963

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwDZDsMQKurZ98F2LiNvJOstMPTOqIGtWcjpq3ZNkPpGEaLci*T9dsoOB64r!FR5QqYJCu*BxfFiEYGS9Z6wRfPmVfXJtO98/DSCF1012.JPG?dc=4675615810148408121

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwCG...cEb*97cVK/DSCF1016.JPG?dc=4675615810226078628
 
al77 wrote:
> Hello, I built up a road bike over the winter on a secondhand aluminum
> Specialized Allez Elite A1 frame from made in 2000. After lots of
> tinkering & short test rides I finally took it out for a proper ride
> on saturday. 40 miles in & I suddenly got a strange loose feeling on
> the downstrokes with the cranks. I assumed a crank bolt, BB or pedal
> was loose but when i got off & took a look I was horrified to find the
> frame has broken completely just where the chainstay meets the rear
> dropout on the drive side.
>
> The frame was an ebay buy for £120 & it's maddening to think the
> seller may not have been honest about the condition / history of the
> bike. It must've had some impact in the past to weaken that area?
> The break runs right through one of the holes where the rear mech
> hangers attaches to the frame, maybe this was overtightened weakening
> the frame at that point?
>
> Anyway, I've taken some pictures, it would be good to get some
> opinions on whether people think this is fixable / worth fixing. The
> frame material is 'enhanced butted aluminum'
>
> I hope the pictures work, thanks in advance, Alan
>
> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwCDDsIQ9OnZ98F2LiNvJPlL3rcsy9tfyvRj38Km*ZHzKR8qWHH!2zLCoh*9jZCFcui6aTTSiYT9v7Iujsx*qD3NpsAFpG3c/DSCF1011.JPG?dc=4675615810049230963
>
> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwDZDsMQKurZ98F2LiNvJOstMPTOqIGtWcjpq3ZNkPpGEaLci*T9dsoOB64r!FR5QqYJCu*BxfFiEYGS9Z6wRfPmVfXJtO98/DSCF1012.JPG?dc=4675615810148408121
>
> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwCG...cEb*97cVK/DSCF1016.JPG?dc=4675615810226078628
>


A replaceable derailleurhanger is not always a plus.


Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)
 
On Mar 25, 8:31 pm, "al77" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello, I built up a road bike over the winter on a secondhand aluminum
> Specialized Allez Elite A1 frame from made in 2000. After lots of
> tinkering & short test rides I finally took it out for a proper ride
> on saturday. 40 miles in & I suddenly got a strange loose feeling on
> the downstrokes with the cranks. I assumed a crank bolt, BB or pedal
> was loose but when i got off & took a look I was horrified to find the
> frame has broken completely just where the chainstay meets the rear
> dropout on the drive side.
>
> The frame was an ebay buy for £120 & it's maddening to think the
> seller may not have been honest about the condition / history of the
> bike. It must've had some impact in the past to weaken that area?
> The break runs right through one of the holes where the rear mech
> hangers attaches to the frame, maybe this was overtightened weakening
> the frame at that point?
>
> Anyway, I've taken some pictures, it would be good to get some
> opinions on whether people think this is fixable / worth fixing. The
> frame material is 'enhanced butted aluminum'
>
> I hope the pictures work, thanks in advance, Alan
>
> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwCDDsIQ9OnZ98F2LiNvJPlL3rcsy9tfyvRj38...
>
> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwDZDsMQKurZ98F2LiNvJOstMPTOqIGtWcjpq3...
>
> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwCGD8cQAuvZ98F2LiNvJEQbBB3BF5K4kAEKdn...

Hi,
I am pretty sure my local framebuilder (here in Italy) would fix
that.
I have seen him doing something similar: he would just cut the old
dropout off, take some paint off the stays, and weld a new dropout in
place. Then eventually you would have to repaint the area.
I don't think it would cost a lot, something like 100 Euro, but on a
£120 frame it might be not worth the hassle and the money.
Ciao
Luca
 
Lou Holtman wrote:

>
>
> A replaceable derailleurhanger is not always a plus.
>
Are you saying the hanger caused the fracture?
 
Paul Cassel wrote:
> Lou Holtman wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> A replaceable derailleurhanger is not always a plus.
>>
> Are you saying the hanger caused the fracture?


I don't know for sure of course, but drilling a hole in the frame to
bolt it on doesn't help.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)
 
sure why not. if you buy a dropout, put a rod in it ,slide the rod
into the chainstay, have the chainstay sawn down the side, then clamp
pound and weld everfything together, that should go on for ...? next
thursday? who knows? it depends on the welder. does he like you? does
he like anyone? is he an ax killer?
if you do the the wrok and the welder does the welding then the costs
go fairly low if the welder's not an ax killer. costs come in when you
walkin and ask the ax killer errr welder to do desing and fabrication.
bring in a coupla cans of cold Fosters. COLD.
 
Paul Cassel wrote:
> Lou Holtman wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> A replaceable derailleurhanger is not always a plus.
>>
> Are you saying the hanger caused the fracture?

looks like it. and that's a very insubstantial dropout which doesn't help.
 
al77 wrote:
> Hello, I built up a road bike over the winter on a secondhand aluminum
> Specialized Allez Elite A1 frame from made in 2000. After lots of
> tinkering & short test rides I finally took it out for a proper ride
> on saturday. 40 miles in & I suddenly got a strange loose feeling on
> the downstrokes with the cranks. I assumed a crank bolt, BB or pedal
> was loose but when i got off & took a look I was horrified to find the
> frame has broken completely just where the chainstay meets the rear
> dropout on the drive side.
>
> The frame was an ebay buy for �120 & it's maddening to think the
> seller may not have been honest about the condition / history of the
> bike. It must've had some impact in the past to weaken that area?

no, it's just poor design. the seller may have had no idea that the
frame was cracking there. but if they /did/ know, that's another story.
still poor design though.

> The break runs right through one of the holes where the rear mech
> hangers attaches to the frame, maybe this was overtightened weakening
> the frame at that point?

yes.

>
> Anyway, I've taken some pictures, it would be good to get some
> opinions on whether people think this is fixable / worth fixing. The
> frame material is 'enhanced butted aluminum'
>
> I hope the pictures work, thanks in advance, Alan
>
> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwCDDsIQ9OnZ98F2LiNvJPlL3rcsy9tfyvRj38Km*ZHzKR8qWHH!2zLCoh*9jZCFcui6aTTSiYT9v7Iujsx*qD3NpsAFpG3c/DSCF1011.JPG?dc=4675615810049230963
>
> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwDZDsMQKurZ98F2LiNvJOstMPTOqIGtWcjpq3ZNkPpGEaLci*T9dsoOB64r!FR5QqYJCu*BxfFiEYGS9Z6wRfPmVfXJtO98/DSCF1012.JPG?dc=4675615810148408121
>
> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwCG...cEb*97cVK/DSCF1016.JPG?dc=4675615810226078628
>

it's definitely fixable. the question is, at what cost, and is the rest
of the frame worth it? when you can buy a whole new frame from nashbar
for barely 3 digits, the logic of repairing something like this is imo
highly questionable.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
jim beam <[email protected]> wrote:

> al77 wrote:
> > Hello, I built up a road bike over the winter on a secondhand
> > aluminum Specialized Allez Elite A1 frame from made in 2000. After
> > lots of tinkering & short test rides I finally took it out for a
> > proper ride on saturday. 40 miles in & I suddenly got a strange
> > loose feeling on the downstrokes with the cranks. I assumed a
> > crank bolt, BB or pedal was loose but when i got off & took a look
> > I was horrified to find the frame has broken completely just where
> > the chainstay meets the rear dropout on the drive side.
> >
> > The frame was an ebay buy for ?120 & it's maddening to think the
> > seller may not have been honest about the condition / history of
> > the bike. It must've had some impact in the past to weaken that
> > area?
>
> no, it's just poor design. the seller may have had no idea that the
> frame was cracking there. but if they /did/ know, that's another
> story. still poor design though.

That seems fair enough to say. ;-)

> > The break runs right through one of the holes where the rear mech
> > hangers attaches to the frame, maybe this was overtightened
> > weakening the frame at that point?
>
> yes.

Do you think the cause was overtightening or simply having a hole there,
making for a small section of metal where there are a lot of loads? I
also wonder if the imprint from the QR was a factor in crack initiation.
I'm not sure but it looks like the crack started by the axle and
proceeded towards the upper right.
 
Really poor dropout design; that hold shouldn't be placed where it is. Would
be seriously bad news had it been there originally, but I doubt very much
that a crash had anything to do with it. If the seller is relatively local,
I'd send it back to the seller and have him take care of it through a local
shop that sells Specialized. It should be covered by warranty, but only for
the original owner.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
 
al77 wrote:
> Hello, I built up a road bike over the winter on a secondhand aluminum
> Specialized Allez Elite A1 frame from made in 2000. After lots of
> tinkering & short test rides I finally took it out for a proper ride
> on saturday. 40 miles in & I suddenly got a strange loose feeling on
> the downstrokes with the cranks. I assumed a crank bolt, BB or pedal
> was loose but when i got off & took a look I was horrified to find the
> frame has broken completely just where the chainstay meets the rear
> dropout on the drive side.
>
> The frame was an ebay buy for £120 & it's maddening to think the
> seller may not have been honest about the condition / history of the
> bike. It must've had some impact in the past to weaken that area?
> The break runs right through one of the holes where the rear mech
> hangers attaches to the frame, maybe this was overtightened weakening
> the frame at that point?
>
> Anyway, I've taken some pictures, it would be good to get some
> opinions on whether people think this is fixable / worth fixing. The
> frame material is 'enhanced butted aluminum'
>
> I hope the pictures work, thanks in advance, Alan
>
> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwCDDsIQ9OnZ98F2LiNvJPlL3rcsy9tfyvRj38Km*ZHzKR8qWHH!2zLCoh*9jZCFcui6aTTSiYT9v7Iujsx*qD3NpsAFpG3c/DSCF1011.JPG?dc=4675615810049230963
>
> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwDZDsMQKurZ98F2LiNvJOstMPTOqIGtWcjpq3ZNkPpGEaLci*T9dsoOB64r!FR5QqYJCu*BxfFiEYGS9Z6wRfPmVfXJtO98/DSCF1012.JPG?dc=4675615810148408121
>
> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwCG...cEb*97cVK/DSCF1016.JPG?dc=4675615810226078628
>
Dead frame - no practical repair

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
On Mar 25, 12:31 pm, "al77" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello, I built up a road bike over the winter on a secondhand aluminum
> Specialized Allez Elite A1 frame from made in 2000. After lots of
> tinkering & short test rides I finally took it out for a proper ride
> on saturday. 40 miles in & I suddenly got a strange loose feeling on
> the downstrokes with the cranks. I assumed a crank bolt, BB or pedal
> was loose but when i got off & took a look I was horrified to find the
> frame has broken completely just where the chainstay meets the rear
> dropout on the drive side.
>
> The frame was an ebay buy for £120 & it's maddening to think the
> seller may not have been honest about the condition / history of the
> bike. It must've had some impact in the past to weaken that area?
> The break runs right through one of the holes where the rear mech
> hangers attaches to the frame, maybe this was overtightened weakening
> the frame at that point?
>
> Anyway, I've taken some pictures, it would be good to get some
> opinions on whether people think this is fixable / worth fixing. The
> frame material is 'enhanced butted aluminum'
>
> I hope the pictures work, thanks in advance, Alan
>
> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwCDDsIQ9OnZ98F2LiNvJPlL3rcsy9tfyvRj38...
>
> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwDZDsMQKurZ98F2LiNvJOstMPTOqIGtWcjpq3...
>
> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwCGD8cQAuvZ98F2LiNvJEQbBB3BF5K4kAEKdn...

Altho some have said that it can be rewelded..with aluminum, I doubt
it would last long...dead....
 
On 26 Mar, 13:36, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 25, 12:31 pm, "al77" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hello, I built up a road bike over the winter on a secondhand aluminum
> > Specialized Allez Elite A1 frame from made in 2000. After lots of
> > tinkering & short test rides I finally took it out for a proper ride
> > on saturday. 40 miles in & I suddenly got a strange loose feeling on
> > the downstrokes with the cranks. I assumed a crank bolt, BB or pedal
> > was loose but when i got off & took a look I was horrified to find the
> > frame has broken completely just where the chainstay meets the rear
> > dropout on the drive side.
>
> > The frame was an ebay buy for £120 & it's maddening to think the
> > seller may not have been honest about the condition / history of the
> > bike. It must've had some impact in the past to weaken that area?
> > The break runs right through one of the holes where the rear mech
> > hangers attaches to the frame, maybe this was overtightened weakening
> > the frame at that point?
>
> > Anyway, I've taken some pictures, it would be good to get some
> > opinions on whether people think this is fixable / worth fixing. The
> > frame material is 'enhanced butted aluminum'
>
> > I hope the pictures work, thanks in advance, Alan
>
> >http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwCDDsIQ9OnZ98F2LiNvJPlL3rcsy9tfyvRj38...
>
> >http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwDZDsMQKurZ98F2LiNvJOstMPTOqIGtWcjpq3...
>
> >http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwCGD8cQAuvZ98F2LiNvJEQbBB3BF5K4kAEKdn...
>
> Altho some have said that it can be rewelded..with aluminum, I doubt
> it would last long...dead....

Doh! Looks like a lost cause then. Bugger.
Still, it could've been worse, the wheel could've come off at speed.

It does seem crazy to drill a hole in what is the thinnest part of the
frame, surely the whole dropout/chainstay/seatstay corner could be a
nice solid triangle to make this sort of thing less likely? But then
I wouldn't be in the market for a new frame again, so maybe it's an
ingenious sales strategy.

Ok, could I get some frame recommendations instead then? I'm looking
for a reasonably light-weight (but strong too!) road/race frame with a
possible budget of £200-250, one that comes with 56cm c-c on seat &
top tube. I'm in the UK if that helps.
thanks again, Alan
 
On 26 Mar, 18:50, "al77" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ok, could I get some frame recommendations instead then? I'm looking
> for a reasonably light-weight (but strong too!) road/race frame with a
> possible budget of £200-250, one that comes with 56cm c-c on seat &
> top tube. I'm in the UK if that helps.
> thanks again, Alan

What about a good sturdy steel frameset?

Sergio
Pisa
 
On 26 Mar, 18:22, "sergio" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 26 Mar, 18:50, "al77" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Ok, could I get some frame recommendations instead then? I'm looking
> > for a reasonably light-weight (but strong too!) road/race frame with a
> > possible budget of £200-250, one that comes with 56cm c-c on seat &
> > top tube. I'm in the UK if that helps.
> > thanks again, Alan
>
> What about a good sturdy steel frameset?
>
> Sergio
> Pisa

I have a fast tourer which has a Reynolds 531 frame & i do like that
it a lot. I used it for touring, camping & longer commutes with front
& rear racks for years & it's never let me down. I want the new
frameset to be more of an out & out speedy summer road bike, no
mudguards or panniers. The short time I rode the specialized frame
was a lot of fun, feeling like I had so much speed & power with the
lighter frame & no panniers or racks. It's something in that spirit
i'm after. Any makes or models to look out for? How about the Ribble
'Carbon Flash Frame' @ £299, any good?

Alan
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Ok ok allez DOA
> Butbutbut why then is henry james selling dropout?
> http://www.bikecult.com/works/dropouts.html
> http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...cycle+frame+dropouts&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
> http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...cycle+frame+dropouts&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us
> http://www.henryjames.com/productlug.html
> "The only reason for the existence of a dropout is that it does
> attempt to resurrect frames."

All your references were to steel. The OP has an aluminum frame.

Replacing a cracked frame end in steel is no big deal - certainly
common enough and straightforward. Unless there's chrome or some other
issue, it's quick and cheap.

The only place we knew who would strip/anneal/weld/temper aluminum
frames was Ted Croft's pyrotek.com and they seem to have closed.

What is the meaning of your quotation? Is part of it missing?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
well, you know and i geuss.
large aluminum screen housings for pools are everywhere...
hurricanes blow threw and most screen housings survive
are there no Al replacement dropouts or no dropouts that can
be....made into a replacement
knowing that what i typed "made into" could be a time/money pit.
using the bernzomatic Al brazing rod, minor welds are a STRIKE UP THE
BAND!

SNAP. i've not yet jumped up and down on one

the quote should read "replacement dropout" sorry. it's from our
friend James but hashed.
nice sites aye? are you upgrading to a hi resolution screen and
ultimate? knockout with low lights.
just finished the taxes with it, word and excel, four downloads of pdf
all figure pluggable, zap zap zap
crack peanuts for a monkee!
 
it's from our
> friend James but hashed.

beyond our friend fixing his dropout hisself with bernz rod
question surfaces: if Al lugs existed, would (sorry) cheap Al frames
be instantly feasible?
not for sale off course!
 
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