Specialized Grass Roots Program?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Todd, Mar 6, 2003.

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  1. Todd

    Todd Guest

    Hello,

    Our team is trying to set up a shop deal with a local shop, however as with most teams I'd suspect
    one of the largest benefits we're looking for from the shop is fully built bikes to race on for a
    substancial discount.

    Anyway, the shop in question doesn't seem very interested in helping us with this. We were told that
    we could get a discount on specialized bikes through their grass roots program but the discount
    would only be 20% off retail prices + shipping and tax. That seems really high to me, I was figuring
    it would be something like 10% over dealer cost to the team.

    Does anyone know the specifics of the specailized grass roots team deal? We'd like to see if the
    dealer is jacking us around and we should look elsewhere or if that's the best specialized can do
    for it's grass roots team riders.

    Thanks in advance

    Todd

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  2. Jtn

    Jtn Guest

    "Todd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hello,
    >
    > Anyway, the shop in question doesn't seem very interested in helping us with this. We were told
    > that we could get a discount on specialized bikes through their grass roots program but the
    > discount would only be 20% off retail prices + shipping and tax. That seems really high to me, I
    > was figuring it would be something like 10% over dealer cost to the team.
    >
    >
    > Todd
    >

    they dont want to help you go places, they just want to make sure when you go there your riding
    their crap.....$$$$$$$$$$$$I I I I I I I I

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  3. Todd Kuzma

    Todd Kuzma Guest

    Todd wrote:

    > We were told that we could get a discount on specialized bikes through their grass roots program
    > but the discount would only be 20% off retail prices + shipping and tax. That seems really high to
    > me, I was figuring it would be something like 10% over dealer cost to the team.

    The 20% off program is what Specialized offers. Any additional discount is up to the retailer. If
    you'd like more discount, think of what you can provide the shop. Will they be getting any extra
    publicity because of this sponsorship?

    Unfortunately, many grassroots teams are perceived by shops as a bunch of riders who want cheap gear
    for nothing in return. Specialized wants to support teams because it gets their name out there. Same
    with the shop. If you ask for a discount for your team, tell the shop what you will do for them.

    Do you have team jerseys? If so, do they mention Specialized and the shop? This would help a great
    deal. Make sure that team members wear this jersey during training rides as well. Does the shop have
    any special events where the team can make an appearance? Does your team issue any press releases to
    the local paper about team events, race results, etc.? If so, be sure to mention the team sponsors.

    I helped a local team with sponsorship from my shop and helped arrange some money from a local radio
    station. The only thing that the station wanted in return was a photo of the team wearing their
    jerseys in front of the station. The team members never got together to take the picture. So, I told
    them that I wouldn't help them the next year. Their sponsor wanted very little, and the team
    couldn't deliver.

    Remember that most sponsors get a much better return for their money with other types of
    advertising. Giving money or discounts is mostly done just because they want to help. Don't take
    that for granted.

    Todd Kuzma Heron Bicycles Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery LaSalle, IL 815-223-1776
    http://www.heronbicycles.com http://www.tullios.com

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  4. "Todd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]e.com...
    > I was figuring it would be something like 10% over dealer cost to the team.

    Why were you figuring that?

    JT

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  5. Brian Roth

    Brian Roth Guest

    [email protected] (Todd) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Hello,
    >
    > Our team is trying to set up a shop deal with a local shop, however as with most teams I'd suspect
    > one of the largest benefits we're looking for from the shop is fully built bikes to race on for a
    > substancial discount.
    >
    > Anyway, the shop in question doesn't seem very interested in helping us with this. We were told
    > that we could get a discount on specialized bikes through their grass roots program but the
    > discount would only be 20% off retail prices + shipping and tax. That seems really high to me, I
    > was figuring it would be something like 10% over dealer cost to the team.
    >
    > Does anyone know the specifics of the specailized grass roots team deal? We'd like to see if the
    > dealer is jacking us around and we should look elsewhere or if that's the best specialized can do
    > for it's grass roots team riders.
    >
    > Thanks in advance
    >
    > Todd

    20% off retail isn't bad, unless the bikes are normally sold at a deep discount off retail in the
    first place.

    In the final analysis, you have to honestly ask yourself "How many extra bikes is Specialized going
    to sell because our team is riding them?"

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  6. Todd

    Todd Guest

    Actually they already have space on our jersey, our web page, and our race banner. We also are
    planning on leading their group rides 2 nights a week. So we are already giving them quite a bit of
    exposure and making it so they don't have to pay a staff member to lead group rides twice a week.
    I'm sure the shop will get a lot more exposure by other means of advertising but it also costs them
    money. Ordering us team bikes for even thier cost is essentially free for them, it doesn't cost them
    any money to pass bikes onto us at their cost (by cost I mean their dealer cost + shipping and tax).
    Aside probably the time it takes them to make the order for us and maybe do some extra paperwork.
    Giving us 20% off not only gets them free advertising but they still make a good profit on us buying
    bikes there. Except of course that for that deal we won't be very motivated to buy bikes from them.

    If 20% is their standard deal so be it. We will look for other manufacturers that will give us
    something more substancial than 20% off retail. If the shop doesn't like us not riding bikes they
    sell, they can give us a better deal. Frankly I don't know why a shop would sponsor a team and not
    make it a very attractive to buy bikes they sell. It doesn't represent the shop very well if the
    team is riding bikes they don't even carry.

    As to how I came to the conclusion that it should be cost + 10% that's generally the standard I've
    heard of for team/employee discounts. Full bikes must be different cause the host of component
    sponsors we've aquired seem to generally be in the 40-50% off of retail, in some cases as much as
    20% less than dealer cost. I think the worst one we got was about 30% off retail so frankly 20% off
    retail on a full bike doesn't impress us much. Most shops offer better deals than that to anyone
    that walks in the door toward the end of the season.

    Todd

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  7. Todd wrote:

    > Actually they already have space on our jersey, our web page, and our race banner. We also are
    > planning on leading their group rides 2 nights a week. So we are already giving them quite a bit
    > of exposure and making it so they don't have to pay a staff member to lead group rides twice a
    > week. I'm sure the shop will get a lot more exposure by other means of advertising but it also
    > costs them money. Ordering us team bikes for even thier cost is essentially free for them, it
    > doesn't cost them any money to pass bikes onto us at their cost (by cost I mean their dealer cost
    > + shipping and tax). Aside probably the time it takes them to make the order for us and maybe do
    > some extra paperwork. Giving us 20% off not only gets them free advertising but they still make a
    > good profit on us buying bikes there. Except of course that for that deal we won't be very
    > motivated to buy bikes from them.
    >
    > If 20% is their standard deal so be it. We will look for other manufacturers that will give us
    > something more substancial than 20% off retail. If the shop doesn't like us not riding bikes they
    > sell, they can give us a better deal. Frankly I don't know why a shop would sponsor a team and not
    > make it a very attractive to buy bikes they sell. It doesn't represent the shop very well if the
    > team is riding bikes they don't even carry.
    >
    > As to how I came to the conclusion that it should be cost + 10% that's generally the standard I've
    > heard of for team/employee discounts. Full bikes must be different cause the host of component
    > sponsors we've aquired seem to generally be in the 40-50% off of retail, in some cases as much as
    > 20% less than dealer cost. I think the worst one we got was about 30% off retail so frankly 20%
    > off retail on a full bike doesn't impress us much. Most shops offer better deals than that to
    > anyone that walks in the door toward the end of the season.
    >
    > Todd

    Huh. I promote a National Racing Calendar stage race and I'm pretty happy with my 20% off
    retail discount.

    But then I don't lead groups rides. Maybe that's why I have to settle for such a measily
    discount. ;-)

    David

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  8. Todd

    Todd Guest

    Heh,

    I'll probably see you at the U of M campus criterium race this year, course I won't have a clue
    who ya are :)

    If you guys want some help with sponsorship, I'd be happy to give ya guys some tips cause
    considering your team's roster compared to ours, and then looking at your sponsors you could be
    doing a lot better. Then again people from MN are happy with the vikings, so you guys are probably
    content with 20% too ;-)

    Todd

    >
    > Huh. I promote a National Racing Calendar stage race and I'm pretty happy with my 20% off retail
    > discount.
    >
    > But then I don't lead groups rides. Maybe that's why I have to settle for such a measily
    > discount. ;-)
    >
    > David

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  9. Sabine

    Sabine Guest

    [email protected] (Todd) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Actually they already have space on our jersey, our web page, and our race banner. We also are
    > planning on leading their group rides 2 nights a week. So we are already giving them quite a bit
    > of exposure and making it so they don't have to pay a staff member to lead group rides twice a
    > week. I'm sure the shop will get a lot more exposure by other means of advertising but it also
    > costs them money. Ordering us team bikes for even thier cost is essentially free for them, it
    > doesn't cost them any money to pass bikes onto us at their cost (by cost I mean their dealer cost
    > + shipping and tax). Aside probably the time it takes them to make the order for us and maybe do
    > some extra paperwork. Giving us 20% off not only gets them free advertising but they still make a
    > good profit on us buying bikes there. Except of course that for that deal we won't be very
    > motivated to buy bikes from them.
    >
    > If 20% is their standard deal so be it. We will look for other manufacturers that will give us
    > something more substancial than 20% off retail. If the shop doesn't like us not riding bikes they
    > sell, they can give us a better deal. Frankly I don't know why a shop would sponsor a team and not
    > make it a very attractive to buy bikes they sell. It doesn't represent the shop very well if the
    > team is riding bikes they don't even carry.
    >
    > As to how I came to the conclusion that it should be cost + 10% that's generally the standard I've
    > heard of for team/employee discounts. Full bikes must be different cause the host of component
    > sponsors we've aquired seem to generally be in the 40-50% off of retail, in some cases as much as
    > 20% less than dealer cost. I think the worst one we got was about 30% off retail so frankly 20%
    > off retail on a full bike doesn't impress us much. Most shops offer better deals than that to
    > anyone that walks in the door toward the end of the season.
    >
    > Todd

    The sense of entitlement simply because your hobby is racing bikes is astounding! Ask yourself what
    else you are going to do for these companies to help them sell product besides just race your bike
    and put their logo on a web page that no one reads. I have trouble procuring deals for PRO riders
    who can podium at a NORBA NCS race because the economy is so tight right now. I'm sorry if I'm not
    feeling sad for you.

    Sabine www.velobella.org

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  10. Todd

    Todd Guest

    > An expert user usually doesn't need much advice about making a selection and most LBS's charge too
    > much money for expert user parts. This is a major reason why expert users buy online instead of
    > from a LBS. Performance Bike does very well with expert users in part because they price match
    > almost any online price. Alot of LBS's struggle because they are unwilling to update their sales
    > and marketing strategy.

    This is very true, and if the only option I had for buying bikes and parts was one local shop then
    20% off would sound great, heck on a $4000 race bike that's $800. Shops sell very few high end
    bikes, I don't think it would cost them much to sacrifice some profit on a few of those sales. The
    way I see it if you give your racers, say in our club, they race mountain/cyclocross a super deal
    you will genrate more sales at retail. Our riders are also college students, they have a budget say
    $2000, well they are still only going to spend $2000. They're not stupid, they know enough to shop
    online and check ebay and the classifieds for bikes. If they can get a $3500 bike online for $2000
    compared to getting a $2500 bike for $2000 that's a pretty easy decision for them. Where will they
    send their friends when they need new bikes, where they got the best deal. They will tell them to
    shop the internet.

    Not to mention the riders that will be influnced into buying high end bikes from a local shop if
    they get a really good deal. I know riders that flat out won't buy a 105 road bike for $1500, but
    you show them a $2500 bike for $1500 and they will whip out a credit card and buy. Cyclists in
    general are suckers for deals. That's a sale you'd never make at retail so giving a serious discount
    makes you some profit instead of none. Not to mention they are going to send their friends and
    family there. I don't know how everyone else is but I probably help 10-15 people a year pick out
    bikes. These are ususally friends I have got into cycling and are looking at upgrading from their
    $500-600 bike to something in the $1000-1500 range as they get more serious.

    Now lets say shop A gives me a bike for near cost, and I bring 10 people there to buy $1000-$1500
    bikes at retail. I'm pretty sure the shop comes out better selling me one bike for near cost, and
    making 10 $1000 sales at retail than it does charging me retail (which I wouldn't buy anyway) and my
    sending friends somewhere else. 11 sales with one near cost and 10 at retail, verses maybe a couple.
    Unless there's a new math I haven't learned yet that's easy to me.

    I mean we have about oh 30 people in our club, so we probably buy 10-15 bikes a year just in the
    club. Between all of us, who knows how many riders we help pick out bikes locally, way more than we
    buy that's for sure. Lets say for example brand X gives us 40% off retail and our local shop give us
    20% off brand Y, which basically means we can get a 105 brand Y bike for $1500 or a ultegra brand X
    bike for the same money. That's not a hard decision if you ask me, and while the shop may not make
    much money offering us less than 20% off, it's better than making nothing. I mean it's only
    canabilizing your sales if your buyers can't go anywhere else and your guarnteed the sale, that's
    not the case.

    To me giving super discounts to your local racers they influnce the decision of people that are
    going to buy bikes at retail. They are like little sales reps for your shop, they create sales. They
    go on group rides and if people see them doing well on high end bikes, their bikes are reliable,
    they want to get the same thing or at least the same brand. Many riders turn to team riders for
    advice on buying new bikes and parts. As for mountain biking being less influencial than road biking
    I suppose that's true, around here though I'd say people replace their mountain bikes faster than
    road bikes. Our ride groups are about the same size for both styles in terms of riders. I also think
    mountain bikers as a whole (I know I am) are more prone to buying the latest and greatest part. In
    the last oh 5 years I've bought one road bike, and 3 mountain bikes. It's true I do like mountain
    biking more than road biking but I race both and put about the same time in on each.

    However most people these days know that bikes can usually be ordered on several online places at
    darn near 20% off retail anway. Yeah I know there's the whole warranty and ease of dealing with a
    local shop. Most racers already can do their own work though. I know one shop in particular that
    pretty much goes through the roof when you even mention the internet. Why? Because they can no
    longer sell PC61 chains for $40, and time atac aluminum pedals for $120 to people that don't know
    any better. They complain that people don't buy high end parts from them, but they won't stock any,
    and those they do stock are priced too high for anyone that's even heard of the internet to be
    tricked into buying. As long as it's going to take two weeks for them to get me a part, I mise well
    order it myself, save 25% and get it faster. They tell their friends and pretty soon the word is out
    and none of the serious riders even bother to shop there.

    I suppose it's like many things, on one hand the shop can do little for it's riders and get little
    back, there by self justifing their thought that their riders would give them little benefits.

    Or they can do a lot for their riders and have their riders do a lot for them in return and sales.

    Todd
     
  11. Warren

    Warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Todd <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Now lets say shop A gives me a bike for near cost, and I bring 10 people there to buy $1000-$1500
    > bikes at retail. I'm pretty sure the shop comes out better selling me one bike for near cost, and
    > making 10 $1000 sales at retail than it does charging me retail (which I wouldn't buy anyway) and
    > my sending friends somewhere else. 11 sales with one near cost and 10 at retail, verses maybe a
    > couple. Unless there's a new math I haven't learned yet that's easy to me.
    >
    > I mean we have about oh 30 people in our club, so we probably buy 10-15 bikes a year just in the
    > club. Between all of us, who knows how many riders we help pick out bikes locally,

    The reality is that very few racers have much influence on other people's buying decisions outside
    of other racers. If you talk to shops who have sponsored racers they'll tell you that a certain few
    racers are helpful to the shop but most racers just take, take, take. I've been in certain teams and
    clubs where the shop gave 10-20% to all team members but a few of us (private choice by the shop)
    got cost + 10% because of what we each of us gave back to the shop.

    > I know one shop in particular that pretty much goes through the roof when you even mention the
    > internet. Why? Because they can no longer sell PC61 chains for $40, and time atac aluminum pedals
    > for $120 to people that don't know any better. They complain that people don't buy high end parts
    > from them, but they won't stock any, and those they do stock are priced too high for anyone
    > that's even heard of the internet to be tricked into buying. As long as it's going to take two
    > weeks for them to get me a part, I mise well order it myself, save 25% and get it faster. They
    > tell their friends and pretty soon the word is out and none of the serious riders even bother to
    > shop there.

    This is an example of what I referred to as LBS's that won't update their sales and marketing
    strategy. How many of those shops are doing more than surviving?

    -WG
     
  12. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Todd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > This is very true, and if the only option I had for buying bikes and parts was one local shop then
    > 20% off would sound great, heck on a $4000 race bike that's $800. Shops sell very few high end
    > bikes, I don't think it would cost them much to sacrifice some profit on a few of those sales. The
    > way I see it if you give your racers, say in our club, they race mountain/cyclocross a super deal
    > you will genrate more sales at retail.

    In actuality, sponsoring a bike racing team does very little for a LBS in terms of sales. EVEN at
    the Professional/Euro level. As said earlier most sponsors do so to help out, or for a write off or
    because they have a genuine love for the sport. Anyone that races wants a deal, and typically anyone
    in the club that is in the area of the bike shop would buy from them anyways. You look at most
    established teams, both professional and amateur, the bikes are typically sponsored by the MFG of
    the bike. Most big sponsors have nothing to do with cycling other than a love of the sport. Go after
    the MFG instead of the LBS. The MFG is in a much better position financially than the LBS Dave
     
  13. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    I don't have specifics, but I do know buddy that got the 2003 E5 frame and fork for around $500.
    Because of the relationship S-Works has with Cipo, the design had a lot of input from Ugo DeRosa. It
    is a really great deal on a racing frameset. Call the HQ in Morgan Hill, California and keep asking.

    "Todd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hello,
    >
    > Our team is trying to set up a shop deal with a local shop, however as with most teams I'd suspect
    > one of the largest benefits we're looking for from the shop is fully built bikes to race on for a
    > substancial discount.
    >
    > Anyway, the shop in question doesn't seem very interested in helping us with this. We were told
    > that we could get a discount on specialized bikes through their grass roots program but the
    > discount would only be 20% off retail prices + shipping and tax. That seems really high to me, I
    > was figuring it would be something like 10% over dealer cost to the team.
    >
    > Does anyone know the specifics of the specailized grass roots team deal? We'd like to see if the
    > dealer is jacking us around and we should look elsewhere or if that's the best specialized can do
    > for it's grass roots team riders.
    >
    > Thanks in advance
    >
    > Todd
    >
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    > contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/ Please read the charter before posting:
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  14. [email protected] (Todd) wrote in message >
    > To me giving super discounts to your local racers they influnce the decision of people that are
    > going to buy bikes at retail. They are like little sales reps for your shop, they create sales.
    > They go on group rides and if people see them doing well on high end bikes, their bikes are
    > reliable, they want to get the same thing or at least the same brand.

    You're deluding yourself (if you actually believe this and are not just joking).

    JT
     
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