speeding ticket

[Steven M. O'Nei]

one of the six billion <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Steven M. O'Neill" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> one of the six billion <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >"Steven M. O'Neill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >>
>> >> It seems silly to want to try. A speed limit is meant to control the damage a motor vehicle
>> >> can do, right? Obviously a bicycle (with rider) weighs much much less than car and can do much
>> >> much less damage at any given speed.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Of course a car will do much more damage than a bicycle at 30 mph,
>however
>> >a car can stop faster.
>>
>> On what planet?
>
>I've never measured it, but I don't follow closely behind cars because on occasions that I have I
>had a hard time stopping as fast as they did. On top of that I don't believe they were stopping as
>fast as they could, but I was.

I belive you forgot to subtract out your reaction time.
--
Steven O'Neill [email protected] The true automobile is the bicycle.

 

[Mark Hickey]

[email protected] (Steven M. O'Neill) wrote:

>one of the six billion <[email protected]> wrote:

>>Of course a car will do much more damage than a bicycle at 30 mph, however a car can stop faster.
>
>On what planet?

This one, for example.

The limit of braking on a bike is about 0.6g's - beyond that, and you're doing a Superman pose over
your bars.

A car can stop considerably faster than that if the driver has half a clue what he or she is doing.
And I should mention that not everyone on a bike is capable of a 0.6g stop - many are afraid of
over-application of the front brake.

FWIW, when I'm on my tandem I certainly don't worry about going over the bars, and I can generate
a considerable amount of stopping power withe they hydraulic front brake. I can easily outstop
"half bikes".

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

 

[Fritz M]

Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:

> I can easily outstop "half bikes".

Especially when the braking method is helmet into mirror, eh Mark?

How are you healing up?

RFM
--
To reply, translate domain from l33+ 2p33|< to alpha. 4=a 0=o 3=e +=t

 

[Terry Morse]

Steven M. O'Neill wrote:

> >Of course a car will do much more damage than a bicycle at 30 mph, however a car can stop faster.
>
> On what planet?

On any planet with a gravitational field. Reason: the center of mass is high on a bicycle, not so on
an automobile. When was the last time you saw a car do an endo?

Car with good brakes and tires can decelerate near 1 g. Best a bike can do is about 0.6 g.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/

 

[One Of The Six]

"Steven M. O'Neill" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> one of the six billion <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >"Steven M. O'Neill" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >> one of the six billion <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >"Steven M. O'Neill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >>
> >> >> It seems silly to want to try. A speed limit is meant to control the damage a motor vehicle
> >> >> can do, right? Obviously a bicycle (with rider) weighs much much less than car and can do
> >> >> much much less damage at any given speed.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Of course a car will do much more damage than a bicycle at 30 mph,
> >however
> >> >a car can stop faster.
> >>
> >> On what planet?
> >
> >I've never measured it, but I don't follow closely behind cars because
on
> >occasions that I have I had a hard time stopping as fast as they did.
On
> >top of that I don't believe they were stopping as fast as they could,
but I
> >was.
>
> I belive you forgot to subtract out your reaction time.
> --

Cars have decelerated in front of me much faster than the 2 tenths of a second max that I can start
braking from when I first see their brake lights. I've come up to many four way stop signs screaming
as fast as I could while coming to a full stop and had cars that were much farther away than I was
make it there first. Cars can stop faster than bikes.

 

[Steven M. O'Nei]

Terry Morse <[email protected]> wrote:
>Steven M. O'Neill wrote:
>
>> >Of course a car will do much more damage than a bicycle at 30 mph, however a car can stop
>> >faster.
>>
>> On what planet?
>
>On any planet with a gravitational field. Reason: the center of mass is high on a bicycle, not so
>on an automobile. When was the last time you saw a car do an endo?
>
>Car with good brakes and tires can decelerate near 1 g. Best a bike can do is about 0.6 g.

Okay, if you know about g's, I'm willing to accept that I'm (perhaps) wrong this time
--
Steven O'Neill [email protected] The true automobile is the bicycle.

 

[Steven M. O'Nei]

one of the six billion <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Steven M. O'Neill" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> one of the six billion <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >"Steven M. O'Neill" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> >> one of the six billion <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >"Steven M. O'Neill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It seems silly to want to try. A speed limit is meant to control the damage a motor vehicle
>> >> >> can do, right? Obviously a bicycle (with rider) weighs much much less than car and can do
>> >> >> much much less damage at any given speed.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Of course a car will do much more damage than a bicycle at 30 mph,
>> >however
>> >> >a car can stop faster.
>> >>
>> >> On what planet?
>> >
>> >I've never measured it, but I don't follow closely behind cars because
>on
>> >occasions that I have I had a hard time stopping as fast as they did.
>On
>> >top of that I don't believe they were stopping as fast as they could,
>but I
>> >was.
>>
>> I belive you forgot to subtract out your reaction time.
>> --
>
>Cars have decelerated in front of me much faster than the 2 tenths of a second max that I can start
>braking from when I first see their brake lights. I've come up to many four way stop signs
>screaming as fast as I could while coming to a full stop and had cars that were much farther away
>than I was make it there first. Cars can stop faster than bikes.

Okay, okay. Maybe you're right. But they definitely can't accelerate as quickly.
--
Steven O'Neill [email protected] The true automobile is the bicycle.

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>I have a client on 145th street in harlen (NYC). The person who does the cleaning and odd jobs
>(robert) regularly rides a bike. When I'm ther, we regularly "talk bikes". Mayor Mike Bloomberg has
>(allegedly) instituted a Quota System for the police to serve as a revenue generator.
>
>Just before mothers day, Robert was "pulled over" by an unmarked NYC police car and given a ticket
>for speeding.

How fast was he going? How was he clocked? It will be a tough fight in any case. NYC has tipped
their scales in their favor when it comes to defending yourself against a traffic ticket. The rights
you would expect, like discovery, are severely limited, or taken away completely. Your best bet is
to keep postponing the ticket as many times as possible and hope that on the time you do show up,
the cop does not and the ticket gets thrown out.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

>I hope he did not show his Drivers License!

That's a good point. Many people, including some so called judges in traffic court, don't know
the law and will convict in such a way that you get points on your drivers license, which is
not the case.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

>>Of course a car will do much more damage than a bicycle at 30 mph, however a car can stop faster.
>On what planet?

What planet are you on? A car can stop much faster than a bicycle.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

 

[Mark Hickey]

Fritz M <[email protected]+> wrote:

>Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I can easily outstop "half bikes".
>
>Especially when the braking method is helmet into mirror, eh Mark?

I hate to think how many g's are involved in stopping from 20mph to zero in the thickness of
helmet foam.

>How are you healing up?

My neck and shoulders are still really sore, and I'm still a little punch drunk (like anyone would
notice the difference...).

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

 

[Jasper Janssen]

On Tue, 3 Jun 2003 15:00:53 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Steven M. O'Neill) wrote:
>one of the six billion <[email protected]> wrote:

>>Cars have decelerated in front of me much faster than the 2 tenths of a second max that I can
>>start braking from when I first see their brake lights. I've come up to many four way stop signs
>>screaming as fast as I could while coming to a full stop and had cars that were much farther away
>>than I was make it there first. Cars can stop faster than bikes.
>
>Okay, okay. Maybe you're right. But they definitely can't accelerate as quickly.

Okay, so on a bike I can be uop to cruising speed of 20+ kph inside of a couple of meters, or a few
seconds. It takes a car longer to get to cruising -- but, properly operated, it doesn't really take
him longer to get up to 20 kph.

Jasper

 

[Bruce Hollebone]

On 03 Jun 2003, Mark Hickey wrote:

> I hate to think how many g's are involved in stopping from 20mph to zero in the thickness of
> helmet foam.

How long the foam crumple takes is what matters. A WAG at some parameters (0.1 s deceleration time,
ISO standard 14 kg spherical head) gives about 100 gs. If the foam crush takes twice as long, 50 gs,
half as long, 200 g.

--
Kind Regards, Bruce.

 

[Archer]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> On 03 Jun 2003, Mark Hickey wrote:
>
> > I hate to think how many g's are involved in stopping from 20mph to zero in the thickness of
> > helmet foam.
>
> How long the foam crumple takes is what matters. A WAG at some parameters (0.1 s deceleration
> time, ISO standard 14 kg spherical head) gives about 100 gs. If the foam crush takes twice as
> long, 50 gs, half as long, 200 g.

I believe you moved the decimal point one spot to the right: 20 mph is
29.33 fps, which number is almost the 32 ft/sec/sec. Dropping 32 ft/sec
in .1 sec is 10g, not 100g. 29.33 ft/sec is going to be a bit less than that. The mass of the head
doesn't affect the deceleration; only the force required to attain it.

--
David Kerber An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good Lord,
it's morning".

Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.

 

[Steven M. O'Nei]

Jasper Janssen <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 3 Jun 2003 15:00:53 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Steven M. O'Neill) wrote:
>>one of the six billion <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>Cars have decelerated in front of me much faster than the 2 tenths of a second max that I can
>>>start braking from when I first see their brake lights. I've come up to many four way stop signs
>>>screaming as fast as I could while coming to a full stop and had cars that were much farther away
>>>than I was make it there first. Cars can stop faster than bikes.
>>
>>Okay, okay. Maybe you're right. But they definitely can't accelerate as quickly.
>
>Okay, so on a bike I can be uop to cruising speed of 20+ kph inside of a couple of meters, or a few
>seconds. It takes a car longer to get to cruising -- but, properly operated, it doesn't really take
>him longer to get up to 20 kph.

I'm talking more like 1 or 2 kph.
--
Steven O'Neill [email protected] The true automobile is the bicycle.

 

[Mark Hickey]

Bruce Hollebone <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 03 Jun 2003, Mark Hickey wrote:
>
>> I hate to think how many g's are involved in stopping from 20mph to zero in the thickness of
>> helmet foam.
>
>How long the foam crumple takes is what matters. A WAG at some parameters (0.1 s deceleration time,
>ISO standard 14 kg spherical head) gives about 100 gs. If the foam crush takes twice as long, 50
>gs, half as long, 200 g.

Well, figuring I was going around 30 feet per second (just under
10m/s), and figuring that I crushed 1" (2.54cm) of foam, the stop would have taken only about .003
seconds. Factor in the dent I put in the door, and I don't have a clue how long it took. But
the numbers look scary, eh?

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

 

[Kingsley]

On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 03:44:15 +0000, example.com wrote:

> I have a client on 145th street in harlen (NYC). The person who does the cleaning and odd jobs
> (robert) regularly rides a bike. When I'm ther, we regularly "talk bikes". Mayor Mike Bloomberg
> has (allegedly) instituted a Quota System for the police to serve as a revenue generator.
>
> Just before mothers day, Robert was "pulled over" by an unmarked NYC police car and given a ticket
> for speeding.

Wonder what happens if they pull over a tandem?! Do both people get a ticket?

-kt

 

[Kingsley]

On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 03:44:15 +0000, example.com wrote:

> I have a client on 145th street in harlen (NYC). The person who does the cleaning and odd jobs
> (robert) regularly rides a bike. When I'm ther, we regularly "talk bikes". Mayor Mike Bloomberg
> has (allegedly) instituted a Quota System for the police to serve as a revenue generator.
>
> Just before mothers day, Robert was "pulled over" by an unmarked NYC police car and given a ticket
> for speeding.

Wonder what happens if they pull over a tandem?! Do both people get a ticket?

-kt

 

[Steven M. O'Nei]

kingsley <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 03:44:15 +0000, example.com wrote:
>
>> I have a client on 145th street in harlen (NYC). The person who does the cleaning and odd jobs
>> (robert) regularly rides a bike. When I'm ther, we regularly "talk bikes". Mayor Mike Bloomberg
>> has (allegedly) instituted a Quota System for the police to serve as a revenue generator.
>>
>> Just before mothers day, Robert was "pulled over" by an unmarked NYC police car and given a
>> ticket for speeding.
>
>
>Wonder what happens if they pull over a tandem?! Do both people get a ticket?

Yeah, and what about a human-powered bus?

http://www.ds.arch.tue.nl/General/Staff/sverker/HPbus/HPbus.htm

--
Steven O'Neill [email protected] The true automobile is the bicycle.

 

[Pete]

"Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote

> I hate to think how many g's are involved in stopping from 20mph to zero in the thickness of
> helmet foam.
>

From the CPSC test standard: http://www.bhsi.org/cpscfinl.htm
(d) Impact attenuation criteria.
(1) General. A helmet fails the impact attenuation performance test of this standard if a
failure under paragraph (d)(2) of this section can be induced under any combination of
impact site, anvil type, anvil impact order, or conditioning environment permissible under
the standard, either with or without any attachments, or combinations of attachments, that
are provided with the helmet. Thus, the Commission will test for a ``worst case''
combination of test parameters. What constitutes a worst case may vary, depending on the
particular helmet involved.
(2) Peak acceleration. The peak acceleration of any impact shall not exceed 300 g when the
helmet is tested in accordance with Sec. 1203.17 of this standard.

Pete