Speedmachine and Toxy ZR

[Bruce in Texas]

Fellow recumbuteers. I am looking for infomation regarding the
Speedmachine and the Toxy ZR.
I am interested in the following regarding the bikes:
1. Overall build quality
2. Your satisfaction with the bike after owning and riding
3. Does the lack of suspension the front of the ZR hurt it and
transfer road vibration to you?
4. They are both heavy, how do they climb hills?
5. Does anyone know the exact weight of the ZR without a
"speedbag" and with a "speedbag"?
Any other info is much appreciated.
I currently ride a Rotator Pursuit.
Bruce

 

[Kurt Fischer]

Bruce in Texas <[email protected]> wrote:

> Speedmachine and the Toxy ZR.

> 5. Does anyone know the exact weight of the ZR without a
> "speedbag" and with a "speedbag"?

For a comparison of "real world weights" of several recumbents see:
http://f21.parsimony.net/forum37385/messages/33685.htm

16. Speedmachine 22,50 kg
23. Toxy ZR 14,25 kg

I've ridden neither of these bikes, so I can't comment on most of your
questions. Please note the name "Speedmachine" is a bit misleading.
Actually it's a fast and very comfortable tourer, not a race bike. The
Toxy ZR in fact is a real low racer with tremendous speed potential on
the flats, but on wet asphalt and graveled paths climbing can become a
bit problematic, due to the front wheel drive.

Kurt

 

[Dave Larrington]

Kurt Fischer wrote:

> For a comparison of "real world weights" of several recumbents see:
> http://f21.parsimony.net/forum37385/messages/33685.htm
>
> 16. Speedmachine 22,50 kg
> 23. Toxy ZR 14,25 kg

I'm more than somewhat surprised by the above figures. If my Speedmachine
really weighs that much, I'm astonished that I can actually lift it! Note
to self: weigh it tonight.

I had a Toxy XR briefly in my care last year - transporting it down to the
Words in Friedrichshafen and while undoubtedly lighter than the
Speedmachine, still felt pretty portly. Admittedly that particular example
had a Rohloff hub...

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

 

[Peter Clinch]

Bruce in Texas wrote:
> Fellow recumbuteers. I am looking for infomation regarding the
> Speedmachine and the Toxy ZR.

You might try emailing Ben Cooper, a recumbent dealer in Glasgow,
Scotland who sells both and has demonstrator models of each in his shop,
so he's fairly well up on differences and relative merits.

[email protected]

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Kurt Fischer]

Dave Larrington <[email protected]> wrote:

> Kurt Fischer wrote:

> > http://f21.parsimony.net/forum37385/messages/33685.htm
> >
> > 16. Speedmachine 22,50 kg
> > 23. Toxy ZR 14,25 kg
>
> I'm more than somewhat surprised by the above figures. If my Speedmachine
> really weighs that much, I'm astonished that I can actually lift it! Note
> to self: weigh it tonight.

I was also surprised by this weight and looking closer to the picture I
discovered a probably quite heavy U-lock attached to the rear carrier.
So the comparison isn't really fair, but even with four pounds less the
Speedmachine still is far away from being a lightweight. The
Speedmachine in picture 21 looks a lot lighter, but apparently hasn't
been weighed.

On the other hand, there's the fully faired ZOX-Bülk(the name of the man
who has built the fairing) at 23.35 Kg, and that's not bad at all.


> I had a Toxy XR briefly in my care last year - transporting it down to the
> Words in Friedrichshafen and while undoubtedly lighter than the
> Speedmachine, still felt pretty portly. Admittedly that particular example
> had a Rohloff hub...

I wouldn't call the Toxy a lightweight either, but there were not that
many light recumbents on the European market until Flux Z Pro,
Velokraft, Razzfazz, M5 Carbon and the Challenge SL line came along.

Kurt

 

[Simon Kellett]

[email protected] (Bruce in Texas) writes:

> Fellow recumbuteers. I am looking for infomation regarding the
> Speedmachine and the Toxy ZR.

If you consider the Toxy be sure to get a test ride: for me the Zox is
fine, but on the Toxy, with it's wider main tube, I was banging the
chain pulley with my knees (YMMV, but check !.

Also with any small wheeled, front wheel drive bent you need to check
heel/derailer clearance (unless you go for a Rohloff hub gear !!

Simon

--
Simon Kellett, Darmstadt, Germany | http://home.arcor.de/zoxed
Hase Kettwiesel trike | ex-Pashley PDQ SWB
Flux V220 CLWB | Zox20 Lowracer

 

[Mark Leuck]

"Kurt Fischer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bruce in Texas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Speedmachine and the Toxy ZR.
>
> > 5. Does anyone know the exact weight of the ZR without a
> > "speedbag" and with a "speedbag"?
>
> For a comparison of "real world weights" of several recumbents see:
> http://f21.parsimony.net/forum37385/messages/33685.htm
>
> 16. Speedmachine 22,50 kg
> 23. Toxy ZR 14,25 kg
>
> I've ridden neither of these bikes, so I can't comment on most of your
> questions. Please note the name "Speedmachine" is a bit misleading.
> Actually it's a fast and very comfortable tourer, not a race bike. The
> Toxy ZR in fact is a real low racer with tremendous speed potential on
> the flats, but on wet asphalt and graveled paths climbing can become a
> bit problematic, due to the front wheel drive.
>
> Kurt

wet asphalt and graveled paths can be problematic with a low racer using
rear wheel drive too

Don't ask how I know

 

[Dave Larrington]

Kurt Fischer wrote:
> I was also surprised by this weight and looking closer to the picture
> I discovered a probably quite heavy U-lock attached to the rear
> carrier. So the comparison isn't really fair, but even with four
> pounds less the Speedmachine still is far away from being a
> lightweight. The Speedmachine in picture 21 looks a lot lighter, but
> apparently hasn't been weighed.

Imbued with the spirit of SCIENTIFIC something or other, I weighed my
Speedmachine last night, and found it to mass 20.8 kg. That's with the
following spec:

Large fibreglass seat + "Airflow" cushion
Fibreglass "Tour" tailbox
Front mudguard + Crudcatcher
Tiller steering with additional bar ends in the middle of the bars
2 x computers
2 x Cateye EL300 front lights. mounted on a hefty Spce Grip workalike
confected from a handlebar stem and piece of seat post
2 x Cateye LD500 rear lights + home-brewed mounts
105 chainset & BB
105/XT derailleurs
Hope XC hubs
Hope brakes (M4 front, Mini rear)

I usually have a toolkit and pump (1.5 kg), waterproof jacket (0.5 kg) and
U-lock (1.3 kg) in the tailbox as well.

FWIW, HP VElotechnik's web site quotes the weight of the tailbox as 3kg...

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

 

[Kurt Fischer]

Dave Larrington <[email protected]> wrote:



> Imbued with the spirit of SCIENTIFIC something or other, I weighed my
> Speedmachine last night, and found it to mass 20.8 kg. That's with the
> following spec:
>
> Large fibreglass seat + "Airflow" cushion
> Fibreglass "Tour" tailbox

[...]

> FWIW, HP VElotechnik's web site quotes the weight of the tailbox as 3kg...

This weight sounds very reasonable. I started a thread in the German
Liegeradforum concerning the Speedmachine's weight. So far there is one
entry backing up your number. Hans gives a weight of 16,3kg without
tailbox.
On the other hand, Uwe(the man with the scale ;-)) claims his
measurement to be accurate and Hartmut's bike has been weighed this year
again at 20,4 kg, probably without U-lock.

Anyway, here's the thread:
http://f21.parsimony.net/cgi-bin/topic-indent.cgi?Nummer=37385&ThreadNum
mer=58972

And here is an updated link for the pictures. Sorry, I had them on my
computer, so I didn't realize they actually were gone. Attention! A lot
of pictures, may take a while to load.
http://f21.parsimony.net/forum37385/messages/58980.htm

BTW, Hans mentions the prospective weight of the new Speedmachine with
carbon seat and aluminium rear will be under 14 kg.

Kurt

 

[john riley]

If you are in Texas, how were you planning to get a Toxy?

Speedmachines are more readily available in N.Am., including used
ones, and including ones with tail fairings, if you please.

 

[Mark Leuck]

"john riley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If you are in Texas, how were you planning to get a Toxy?
>
> Speedmachines are more readily available in N.Am., including used
> ones, and including ones with tail fairings, if you please.

I'm in Texas and the closest place that had one was in Cincinnati Ohio, same
with Challenge and Optima

 

[Bruce in Texas]

"If I am in Texas"?
Well, I am in Texas. Look at the toxy website. The sell direct to
individuals in the US. Last time I checked we were still part of the
country.
You are right though, the SM is more widely available both new and
used. Both Toxy and SM have very good websites, SM is better. I
think our USA brands could learn quite a bit about marketing if they
would look at the HP Velotecknic and Challenge web sites. They make
it very easy to understand what they are selling to include options.
Rans comes close. This makes it easy for us in the isolated parts of
the states to figure out what we what. I have never laid eyes on
either a Speedmachine or Toxy ZR, but they are both beautiful as are
the Challenge and Optima bikes.
Bruce

 

[Mark Leuck]

"Bruce in Texas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "If I am in Texas"?
> Well, I am in Texas. Look at the toxy website. The sell direct to
> individuals in the US. Last time I checked we were still part of the
> country.
> You are right though, the SM is more widely available both new and
> used. Both Toxy and SM have very good websites, SM is better. I
> think our USA brands could learn quite a bit about marketing if they
> would look at the HP Velotecknic and Challenge web sites. They make
> it very easy to understand what they are selling to include options.
> Rans comes close. This makes it easy for us in the isolated parts of
> the states to figure out what we what. I have never laid eyes on
> either a Speedmachine or Toxy ZR, but they are both beautiful as are
> the Challenge and Optima bikes.
> Bruce

I haven't seen a Toxy other than the web but have ridden a Speedmachine
(Indianapolis) and the pictures of it on HP's site don't do it justice, very
nice ride

 

[john riley]

[email protected] (Bruce in Texas) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "If I am in Texas"?
> Well, I am in Texas. Look at the toxy website. The sell direct to
> individuals in the US. Last time I checked we were still part of the
> country.

That is a theoretical proposition. Americans seem to beleive those UPS
ads that make international shipping look like getting something from
the next State. A bike from overseas could easily end up sitting at a
customs broker hundreds of miles from your home with a big brokerage
fee added for good measure. Might, or it might not happen that way
but I have heard way too many stories where something like that did
happened.

Still part of the country, but not really part of the world....

 

[Tom Sherman]

john riley wrote:

> [email protected] (Bruce in Texas) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>"If I am in Texas"?
>>Well, I am in Texas. Look at the toxy website. The sell direct to
>>individuals in the US. Last time I checked we were still part of the
>>country.
>
>
> That is a theoretical proposition. Americans seem to beleive those UPS
> ads that make international shipping look like getting something from
> the next State. A bike from overseas could easily end up sitting at a
> customs broker hundreds of miles from your home with a big brokerage
> fee added for good measure. Might, or it might not happen that way
> but I have heard way too many stories where something like that did
> happened....

I would try to find a LBS who would import the bicycle in question for a
fixed fee. There have been several that in the past have imported
bikes/trikes that lacked a US distributor into the US. A couple hundred
dollars added to the price of a bike that is already well over $2K is
worth eliminating the hassle in my opinion.

--
Tom Sherman – Rock Island County Illinois