Speedplay spindle wear (grove)

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Bill, Feb 3, 2003.

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  1. Bill

    Bill Guest

    My X2 and X3 pedals have a grove being worn into the spindle where the cleat springs come into
    contact. Question is -- Is there any concern about the strength of the pedal spindle as a result of
    the wear? The spindle / spring contact causes a flat spot worn into the springs eventually requiring
    their replacement. Pedal sets have about 12000 and 5000 miles respectively.

    Speedplay makes no mention of this on their sight. I notice a couple of people mentioned the
    spring wear (flattening) in the previous "pedals" thread. Bill Brannon
     
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  2. Andy Coggan

    Andy Coggan Guest

    I have never heard of a Speedplay spindle breaking due to wear caused by the springs (although
    someone will now post to contradict me). Indeed, I continued to use one pedal off and on for more
    than a year after I cut a 3-4 mm deep groove into the spindle in just one 20 mile ride by installing
    a cleat spring incorrectly (front for rear or vice-versa). That said, I think you are wise to be
    concerned, and I have since retired the pedal in question.

    Given the mileage you've accumulated on your pedals, it might be time for a rebuild (or replacement)
    anyway, in which case you could have the spindles replaced - contact Speedplay to see if this might
    be a cost-effective thing to do.

    Andy Coggan

    "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:A1A%[email protected]...
    > My X2 and X3 pedals have a grove being worn into the spindle where the
    cleat
    > springs come into contact. Question is -- Is there any concern about the strength of the pedal
    > spindle as a result of the wear? The spindle /
    spring
    > contact causes a flat spot worn into the springs eventually requiring
    their
    > replacement. Pedal sets have about 12000 and 5000 miles respectively.
    >
    > Speedplay makes no mention of this on their sight. I notice a couple of people mentioned the
    > spring wear (flattening) in the previous "pedals" thread. Bill Brannon
     
  3. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    This is a recurrent thread. I've used my Speedplay X/2s since early 1994 and there are no grooves
    worn in the spindle. I've always wondered how that seems to happen to so many people, yet I have not
    ever had it happen with my pedals. What's the variance?
     
  4. Bill

    Bill Guest

    "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > This is a recurrent thread. I've used my Speedplay X/2s since early 1994 and there are no grooves
    > worn in the spindle. I've always wondered how that seems to happen to so many people, yet I have
    > not ever had it happen with my pedals. What's the variance?

    I was googling for info and came across a thread that suggested pronation as the source of downward
    pressure on the inside of the cleat. I suspect a non-neutral foot position is the source of the
    problem. My concern is at what point is it a safety issue. The wear begins to occur pretty quickly
    and is refreshed with each new set of cleats with round springs. I copied Speedplay on my initial
    post. I'll be curious to see what their response
    is.Bill Brannon
     
  5. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    In article <X3G%[email protected]>, "Bill"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > This is a recurrent thread. I've used my Speedplay X/2s since early 1994 and there are no
    > > grooves worn in the spindle. I've always wondered how that seems to happen to so many people,
    > > yet I have not ever had it happen with my pedals. What's the variance?
    >
    > I was googling for info and came across a thread that suggested pronation as the source of
    > downward pressure on the inside of the cleat. I suspect a non-neutral foot position is the source
    > of the problem. My concern is at what point is it a safety issue. The wear begins to occur pretty
    > quickly and is refreshed with each new set of cleats with round springs. I copied Speedplay on my
    > initial post. I'll be curious to see what their response
    > is.

    Interesting. I positions my cleats as far to the outside as I can without hitting the cranks with my
    feet/heels to minimize the Q factor as much as I can.

    Now, I've never really understood the terms "pronation" or "supination" since my dictionary's
    definition refer to hands not feet ("pronation" turning the hand palm-down using the pronator muscle
    and "supination" turning the hand palm-up using the supinator muscle). So as far as feet go I'm
    guessing people who pronate tend to walk with their weight along the medial (big toe) side of their
    feet and supinators along the lateral (little toe) edge?

    If that's the case, I am of the latter variety. My walking shoes always wear out by my little toes
    and the outer sides of the heels. So perhaps this has the effect of raisng the inner edge of the
    cleat away from the spindle.
     
  6. Tim, you are a pronator (I am too), and you need a good dictionary. For my feet, I use Big Meat
    wedges -- wonderful things. I think pronation and supination is a red herring here -- the design of
    the cleat is such that angling the shoe inboard or outboard is extremely limited, even with old worn
    springs. Is the spindle the same as the pedal axle? I have over 20,000 miles on my X-2's with no
    grooves at all in the axles (though there is a bright band where I have shined the metal by clicking
    out). I have been though several sets of cleats, and one replacement pedal body, but the axles and
    the bushings are in good shape. Surely the axles should *never* get grooved. To the poster whose are
    -- don't give up on this until you get an answer.

    Kirby.

    "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <X3G%[email protected]>, "Bill"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > This is a recurrent thread. I've used my Speedplay X/2s since early 1994 and there are no
    > > > grooves worn in the spindle. I've always wondered how that seems to happen to so many people,
    > > > yet I have not ever had it happen with my pedals. What's the variance?
    > >
    > > I was googling for info and came across a thread that suggested pronation as the source of
    > > downward pressure on the inside of the cleat. I suspect a non-neutral foot position is the
    > > source of the problem. My concern is at
    [Snipped]
    > If that's the case, I am of the latter variety. My walking shoes always wear out by my little toes
    > and the outer sides of the heels. So perhaps this has the effect of raisng the inner edge of the
    > cleat away from the spindle.
     
  7. If Tim wears out the outside of his shoes, he's supinating (or under-pronating as the running shoe
    gurus have come to call it; pronators roll inward). I'd bet Tim also has high arches and replaces
    his cleats in a timely manner. But regardless, as another nine-year user, I can say the Speedplay
    spindle groove will happen to anyone if the following is allowed to occur:

    The springs are allowed to wear sufficiently before replacement, thus not fitting tightly in their
    engagement grooves. This allows the shoe to rock laterally when the cleat is engaged, not only
    wearing out the springs further, but also the cleat and composite pedal body, which enables the
    springs to contact the spindle, wearing the groove. The pedal body will wear enough on the inner and
    outer surfaces from the rocking to make new cleats/springs insufficient to stabilize the shoe,
    worsening the wear rate on the new cleats and old pedal body. Then it's time for some replacement
    parts or new pedals.

    It's actually such a common occurrence that Speedplay has pre-grooved their X3 pedals. For example,
    have a close-up look at the spindles in these at Performance:
    http://www.performancebike.com/shop/large_photo.html?SKU=1343&Store=Bike. If the groove is deep
    enough, it can certainly cause a spindle to fail, but a minor one is not likely to be worth much
    worry. There are thousands of grooved Speedplay spindles out there, you can be sure.

    SB

    "Kirby Krieger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:5JH%[email protected]...
    > Tim, you are a pronator (I am too), and you need a good dictionary. For
    my feet, I use Big Meat
    > wedges -- wonderful things. I think pronation and supination is a red
    herring here -- the design
    > of the cleat is such that angling the shoe inboard or outboard is
    extremely limited, even with old
    > worn springs. Is the spindle the same as the pedal axle? I have over
    20,000 miles on my X-2's
    > with no grooves at all in the axles (though there is a bright band where I
    have shined the metal by
    > clicking out). I have been though several sets of cleats, and one
    replacement pedal body, but the
    > axles and the bushings are in good shape. Surely the axles should *never*
    get grooved. To the
    > poster whose are -- don't give up on this until you get an answer.
    >
    > Kirby.
    >
    > "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > In article <X3G%[email protected]>, "Bill"
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > This is a recurrent thread. I've used my Speedplay X/2s since early 1994 and there are no
    > > > > grooves worn in the spindle. I've always wondered how that seems to happen to so many
    > > > > people, yet I have not ever had it happen with my pedals. What's the variance?
    > > >
    > > > I was googling for info and came across a thread that suggested
    pronation as
    > > > the source of downward pressure on the inside of the cleat. I suspect
    a
    > > > non-neutral foot position is the source of the problem. My concern is
    at
    > [Snipped]
    > > If that's the case, I am of the latter variety. My walking shoes always wear out by my little
    > > toes and the outer sides of the heels. So perhaps this has the effect of raisng the inner edge
    > > of the cleat away from the spindle.
     
  8. Bill

    Bill Guest

    "Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:A1A%[email protected]...
    > My X2 and X3 pedals have a grove being worn into the spindle where the
    cleat
    > springs come into contact. Question is -- Is there any concern about the strength of the pedal
    > spindle as a result of the wear? The spindle /
    spring
    > contact causes a flat spot worn into the springs eventually requiring
    their
    > replacement. Pedal sets have about 12000 and 5000 miles respectively.
    >
    > Speedplay makes no mention of this on their sight. I notice a couple of people mentioned the
    > spring wear (flattening) in the previous "pedals" thread. Bill Brannon
    >

    Speedplay recommended that I replace the bowtie plates at $40.00 per pair of pedals. The tech
    suggested that slight wear of the spindle was probably not an issue. However, their official
    recommendation was a spindle with any wear should be replaced. If your feet pronate then you will
    eventually cause the underside of the aluminum bowtie plates to round which will allow the cleat to
    rock and the steel spring to run against the spindle. Bill Brannon
     
  9. Cat Dailey

    Cat Dailey Guest

    > > springs come into contact. Question is -- Is there any concern about
    the
    > > strength of the pedal spindle as a result of the wear? The spindle /
    > spring
    > > contact causes a flat spot worn into the springs eventually requiring
    > their
    > > replacement. Pedal sets have about 12000 and 5000 miles respectively.
    > >
    > > Speedplay makes no mention of this on their sight. I notice a couple
    of
    > > people mentioned the spring wear (flattening) in the previous "pedals" thread. Bill Brannon

    <snippage>

    A friend of mine wore a really nasty groove in his X-1's and was so worried about it that he bought
    a new pair. He did have the MOST worn-out cleats I have ever seen. At the same time, he bought a new
    pair of very expensive Carnacs, thinking that perhaps his Time shoe sole profile had caused the
    problem. After just a ride or two, he noticed that he had a new groove starting on the new pedal
    spindles. As I looked at him ride, I noticed that he had his cleats set all the way to the outside
    of the shoe (I suppose to bring his feet as close to the crankarm as possible, reducing Q-factor?).
    This caused him to pronate pretty badly under low cadence, high tension efforts. I had him recenter
    the cleats just a bit, in order to bring the cleat more under the center of his foot. Voila! No more
    scoring of the pedal spindle & much less pronation (and over-pronating like that can't be all that
    good for you if it's not a natural occurrence.) He really didn't have to move the cleats very far,
    either, so it didn't take him very long to get used to the new feel. I wonder if sometimes we don't
    take things a little too far in our quest for performance. I guess someone somewhere mentioned that
    it is a *good thing* to have your feet as close as possible, and some of us took it to heart without
    realizing the potential consequences. I often wonder, too, what effect close foot spacing has on a
    woman, who has a more extreme angle from hip to knee in the first place. Anybody want to chime in?

    Cat
     
  10. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Qui si parla
    Campagnolo) wrote:

    > Tim-<< This is a recurrent thread. I've used my Speedplay X/2s since early 1994 and there are no
    > grooves worn in the spindle. I've always wondered how that seems to happen to so many people, yet
    > I have not ever had it happen with my pedals.
    >
    > If you install the cleats w/o the LOOK spacer, just the four bolt of the cleat onto a Time shoe,
    > this can happen.

    Interesting. As far as I can recal, all of my Speedplay X pedal cleats are mounted via a LOOK
    adapter. I can't visualize why this would make a difference, however.
     
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