SpeedWork

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by Guest, Nov 21, 2001.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hey Guys and Girls.

    Got a fast flat race coming up end of Jan 2002. (H2H)

    Please can you help out with some workouts specifically geared towards high speeds and sustained effort over aproximately 2hr30min (Road and indoor trainer). I've got a good base and thanks to specific training over the last 8months, I can climb like a mountain goat but I find I have no leg speed on the flats.

    Help please :)
     
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  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Acid, no tips on the training (some one please help I need tips too), but a tip for the H2H (sounds like pool chemicals :D ). If you dont get into a bunch you'll struggle to crack sub 3's .

    Dont know if you've done it before, but there are vast open sections where the wind gets you, if you're on your own you'll struggle.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ouzo I did do it in 2000, I missed 2001 due to transport problems. I should get a good seeding so I should start with a decent bunch. Sean has mentioned previously that if I make it over that first climb with the bunch, I should finish with the same bunch...but I find I tend to be too slow to keep up with the bunches on the flats, when they surge, they drop me so thats what I need help with .......
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    If you've been riding properly most of your base work training for the 94.7 was done in small gears which got your legs used to spinning quickly. Does your bike computer measure cadence? You should be cycling at least at 90rpm on a flat road. A bit less on the hills. If not, not all is lost as you can develop some speed.

    A few tips:
    • In the next 6 weeks do lots of endurance base work spinning around in your small chainring everywhere except downhills.
    • You can average nearly 40 without ever going to the big chainring when you get the hang of it. A 39-15/14/13 ratio goes a long way ;)
    • When you change into a bigger gear make sure your legs are just about "spinning out" in your current gear.
    • When there is a short climb or rolling hills, keep your legs spinning for as long as possible in your current gear but change to one gear lighter before you start losing any leg speed. (you don't need to be going really hard to do this either initially while doing base work)
    • Keep the legs going over the top of the hill.
    • Concentrate on a smooth pedal stroke

    A speed workout that I do indoors on the rollers:
    (Because the resistance in minimal I start in the big chainring.)

    - Warm up for 10 minutes with legs spinning comfortably.
    - Increase the resistance by changing up a gear and increasing cadence (sometimes go as high as 140rpm) for 2 minutes
    - keep the cadence consistently high as you go through the gears staying 2 minutes in each (don't pay any attention to HR - it should be high)
    - go back down the "ladder" of gears staying in each for 30 seconds or so
    - start again

    There are many variations such as going up 2 then one back etc. Make it up as you go. You can also do this on the road but it's more difficult to with external factors.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I find that when my cadence starts getting high I tend to bounce around on the saddle, due to the bouncing I then tend to wobble all over the road and bumps that would previously been absorbed by my legs are hitting me in the arms and shoulders... Any suggestions ???
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    That's always going to happen at high rpms but you should be able to keep your upper body relaxed when spinning between 100 - 120rpm. Try keeping your upper body loose and relaxed while concentrating on turning the pedals from the hips. Not sure how to describe it better than that.

    The more you practise the smoother you get. It's also a good idea to practise indoors on a stationary bike / trainer / rollers.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    There is another technique I use when really spinning quickly to reduce the bouncing on the saddle. Usually in a heavier gear I move slightly forward on the saddle and then spin hard and smooth so that it feels as though my weight is being taken up more on my legs than the saddle.

    I do this when the bunch surges instead of dumping it into a heavier gear and powering out of the saddle straight away.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I think what Sean is trying to say is that you need to develop a smooth pedal stroke. Go round in circles instead of just up and down.

    On a fixed rear wheel roller, take one foot out of the pedal and pedal with the other, get the stroke as even as possible. then do this with the other foot. You want you muscles to learn how to go in circles.

    B.T.W. i still cant get it 100% right but I'm getting there. Cadence has increased from a max of about 90 to about 110 - 120.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Yes ouzo. Most people pedal in squares.
    Practise it by riding with one leg. I've got it perfect with my right leg but the left is still a bit suspect.

    Most people get up to 120rpm where the ride becomes bumpy with you bouncing up and down on the saddle. The reason for this is that this rmp corresponds to the natural resonance frequency of the human body. If you pedal faster and get up above 130rpm it will smooth out completely.

    Make sure you apply an even amount of pressure on the pedals through the entire revolution. Don't just push down on the pedals, but feel that you can push forwards and downwards, then pull the pedal backwards and upwards.

    Get it right and it not only increases your performance, but also exercises more muscles.
     
  10. Vo2

    Vo2 Member

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    I'm not looking forward to this H2H race! The terrain is too fast and too flat. Gimme plenty of long and hard climbs and I'm in my element. I have no problem staying with a bunch going up a hill, and most of the time I tend to lead the group over the crest. But the moment they hit the fast, flat sections I have to work really hard to stay with them.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    A lot of people I've spoken to are nervous in bunches at speed. Is it more of a bunch riding skill probelm or do you find you haven't got enough power on the flats.

    The only way to get better at it is to practise. Ride in a fast bunch with your club. Practise getting your leg speed up in the big gears on the flats. The best way to do this is indoors on a trainer first because it's harder. Then try it on the road.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    "Most people get up to 120rpm where the ride becomes bumpy with you bouncing up and down on the saddle. The reason for this is that this rmp corresponds to the natural resonance frequency of the human body. If you pedal faster and get up above 130rpm it will smooth out completely."

    Dude, what exactly do you mean by this resonance? I sort of have the same problem where I start bouncing at 110-120 rpm.
     
  13. Vo2

    Vo2 Member

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    No, no, believe me, I'm more than capable of staying with a bunch @ 40 km/h. Not scared @ all. I just don't seem to have the legs to stay with them for 50 or 60 k's.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    It's kinda hard to understand how this cyclic behavior affects the human body. I understand how if something is resonating (vibrating) at a certain frequency it can have an affect on another object with a similar natural resonating frequency. But I'm not sure how it applies to the human body in relating to pedalling frequency. I've asked around looking for a decent explanation without any success. On the rare occasion I've spoken to someone who knows about it, they've not been able to explain at to how or why unfortunately. I'm sure there's someone out there who knows the answer...

    All I know is that you can't do anything about it. It affects us all equally. Just pedal slightly faster or slower than 120rpm.

    Another example is low frequency resonance like the drone of a car's exhaust note can affect your internal organs and make you feel uncomfortable or even nauseous.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well then it just sounds as though you need to work on long sustained power efforts. Do intervals where you get those legs spinning in big gears...
     
  16. Vo2

    Vo2 Member

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    Did a race this weekend past where I tried as much as possible to stay out of the low end gears. Amazing how you can keep your speed up without 'crunching' the gears.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    On Spinnning
    "Bouncing" when spinnnig fast is often a symptom of unequal leg length or not enough saddle height- measure legs,shim shoes under cleat or raise your saddle a couple of millimeters! If you're new to spinning keep working on it.

    To smooth your stroke and make your muscles more efficient spin at maximum rpm for (obviuosly) short periods, working on increasing your "max". Many elite and national teams REQUIRE thier riders to be ABLE to hit over 300 rpm!! At the beginning of every season, I personally make sure I can spin At LEAST 160 rpm on the road and 200 rpm on the ergometer (trainer), I can't do it for more than a few seconds but it DOES improve my form.

    Ride to Spin and Grin
    Pat
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ride in the slipstream of a scooter/motorcycle or even a big truck/lorry. It's a very good exercise for gaining speed.
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hey fellas,

    Here's a couple of trackie tips to speed. Before I go any further, Sean_L. advice is pretty good. So what he had to say is a good start.... Now as Sean suggested, small gear for most of your training is good. Next rollers, a very good device for devloping leg speed. Again Sean gave a good workout to follow to bring out the speed.... Now here's the BEST thing you can do for pure leg speed... Motorpacing... This will make you VERY FAST indeed. Now, for the down side of it... One you need an open flat road or roads to do this. Two, you need a vehicle of the 'proper' type to it. Three, someone who knows what there doing, and not going to kill you. And last but not least, the right timing.... This means that you want to decrease your volume of training and up your intensity to peak with the Motorpacing..... So, your doing less and less mileage and more and more speed up till the last 4 to 6 weeks out.

    Motorpacing is strictly for speed peaking, too much too soon, and you will destroy yourself. But if done in the right time and place, you will be oh so fast...... I'll give you an example of it, remember back in 83' when Greg LeMond won his first World Championship. Well, old Greg did a 200+km ride behind a motor averaging 35mph about two or three days out. So, now you know why and how Greg put about a min into the field that yr......

    So, if you can get a taste of it, you'll be flyin'.......
     
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    cjfast is absolutely spot on. I started motorpace about six months ago purely for leg speed. Has worked for me. ;D
     
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