SPF of white cotton t-shirts



W

wle

Guest
recently, i read that white cotton t shirts have an SPF of about 5.

since i ride about 2 hours a day, all year, that;s all i wear in the summer.
[don;t want to have 7-10 bike jerseys at $xx a pop.]

i tried to measure the SPF with my camera.
i discovered they cut the [visible] light by
about 1 f stop, which as i understand SPF would be about SPF 1.

[the published data allegedly refers to UV light.]

so then i started thinking about my arms.
they are tan below the t shirt line, much whiter above.
yet i wear sun screen every day, SPF 30+.

yet - here is the question -
if the t shirt really has such a low SPF, why does it appear to do much
more screening than the sun screen?

the t shirts are clearly screening more than the sunscreen.
but how?

wle.
 
wle wrote:

> recently, i read that white cotton t shirts have an SPF of about 5.


It would depend on the particular shirt since they vary quite a bit
in thickness and density of the weave. IIRC, Consumer Reports did
a test a number of years ago when some fabric makers were
claiming high SPF numbers and found that most regular cotton
shirts also gave decent protection (i.e. SPF 10 and up). I'd
think an SPF 5 would only be true for a very thin T-shirt.
>
> since i ride about 2 hours a day, all year, that;s all i wear in the summer.
> [don;t want to have 7-10 bike jerseys at $xx a pop.]
>
> i tried to measure the SPF with my camera.
> i discovered they cut the [visible] light by
> about 1 f stop, which as i understand SPF would be about SPF 1.


Actually one f-stop would be an SPF of 2 since it indicates that
you could have twice the exposure to sunlight. I'm surprised
that you only saw a change of a single f-stop but my camera
batteries are dead and I can't check for myself right now.
How did you perform the test? Your result doesn't jibe at all
with my subjective test of looking at a light through an
unstretched T-shirt since it cuts down very substantially on
the light whereas a single f-stop is barely noticeable.
Comparing it to stopping down my camera it seems more like
3 or 4 f-stops, which would be an SPF range of 8 - 16.
>
> [the published data allegedly refers to UV light.]
>
> so then i started thinking about my arms.
> they are tan below the t shirt line, much whiter above.
> yet i wear sun screen every day, SPF 30+.
>
> yet - here is the question -
> if the t shirt really has such a low SPF, why does it appear to do much
> more screening than the sun screen?
>
> the t shirts are clearly screening more than the sunscreen.
> but how?


T-shirts don't wash off. From what I've seen, decent quality
T-shirts have an SPF over 10. So going for a 5 hour
ride in the very middle of the day gives you less exposure
than being outside for 30 minutes unprotected. This matches
my experience that I get slight tanning through a shirt but
it's not very pronounced.

The 30+ sunscreen should make that 5-hour ride be equivalent
to less than 10 minutes unprotected and unless you're very
sensitive to sunlight you shouldn't get much tanning at all.
But the 30+ number is based on testing where the lotion is
applied rather thickly and isn't washed off by sweating the
way it is on a bike ride. The actual SPF of your sunscreen
as you apply it and after it has partially washed off is
likely much lower than the claimed value.
 
> >
> > since i ride about 2 hours a day, all year, that;s all i wear in the summer.
> > [don;t want to have 7-10 bike jerseys at $xx a pop.]
> >
> > i tried to measure the SPF with my camera.
> > i discovered they cut the [visible] light by
> > about 1 f stop, which as i understand SPF would be about SPF 1.

>
> Actually one f-stop would be an SPF of 2 since it indicates that
> you could have twice the exposure to sunlight.


right, i forgot that..

> I'm surprised
> that you only saw a change of a single f-stop but my camera
> batteries are dead and I can't check for myself right now.
> How did you perform the test?


i have a reading light.

set metering mode to wide [not spot metering].

find out what f stop would be correct exposure.

put t shirt over it, change f stop til 'correct' again.

went from f/5.8 to f/4 i believe.

i may have to try it again though.

no wait i forgot, i had a piece of paper over the
light in both cases, to help diffuse the light.

so when the t shirt was there, the light passed through the paper
and the t shirt.

so now i don;t know what i could have done differently.



Your result doesn't jibe at all
> with my subjective test of looking at a light through an
> unstretched T-shirt since it cuts down very substantially on
> the light whereas a single f-stop is barely noticeable.
> Comparing it to stopping down my camera it seems more like
> 3 or 4 f-stops, which would be an SPF range of 8 - 16.
> >


you would think..
i was surprised..

possibly the uv is the key factor, maybe the cotton doesn;t stop uv
for some reason.

i also thought, most of the day, the sun comes through the sleeves
at an angle so the cotton may be denser in that direction, compared to
my test which was straight through the knit.

wle.
 
wle wrote:

> i was surprised..
>
> possibly the uv is the key factor, maybe the cotton doesn;t stop uv
> for some reason.


If that were the case then I would often be looking like a boiled
lobster since I certainly never apply sunscreen on my body where
it'll be covered by a shirt. And as I said before, I do get a
very light tan there, but nothing pronounced even after all day
rides in the sun around the summer solstice. My quick subjective
test of brightness vs. my camera stopped down to different stops and
my skin both seem to agree that the effective SPF of my shirts is
around 10 - 20.
>
> i also thought, most of the day, the sun comes through the sleeves
> at an angle so the cotton may be denser in that direction, compared to
> my test which was straight through the knit.
>


Agreed, but parts of the upper back would have the sun's rays coming
down pretty straight - especially if riding toward the north (in the
northern hemisphere).
 
Camera is metering visible light. The shirt is translucent to visible light. Ergo, it stands to reason why it only stopped 50% of the visible light.

Look at the same tee under a blacklight. This is near ultraviolet. You will see it glow from the "optical whiteners" which are used as dyes on whites to make them, well, really white. In doing so, these optical dyes change ultraviolet, "invisible" light into a blueish light which counteracts the yellow, making the fabric appear white. Shine a blacklight on some dry laundry detergent. Then some tonic water. Quinine is mildly flourscent.

Now get ahold of a short wavelength UV lamp. Shine it on some postage stamps. New postage stamps. Then canceled postage stamps. Now you know why you will get a rejected letter if you put clear tape over a stamp! The stamps are canceled with a flourscent quencher. Clear tape does the same thing!

Back to the shirt. Since the flourscent dyes are powerful absorbers of UV, you should have a pretty good SPF 20 in your shirt. Wash it in detergent that has "optical brighteners" for maximum protection!
 
On 16 Aug 2004 09:09:43 -0700, [email protected] (wle) wrote:

>recently, i read that white cotton t shirts have an SPF of about 5.


They'd have to be really crummy, very thin shirts to have an index
that low. Cotton tees are commonly supplied in wights ranging from
4.2 oz to 6.1 oz; the lower the weight, the thinner the shirt. Fruit
of the Loom Loftees are 6.1oz., and they're really too heavy to wear
for high-exertion activities on a day when there's both high humidity
and high temp. On the other hand, some of the cheapest lightweights
are so thin that you can read a newspaper through them.

>since i ride about 2 hours a day, all year, that;s all i wear in the summer.
>[don;t want to have 7-10 bike jerseys at $xx a pop.]


You're not alone, in case you haven't noticed.

>i tried to measure the SPF with my camera.


Won't work; the reasons take a bit of explaining. With an incident
light meter, you could get a better estimate...but it would still be
wrong, as the visible spectrum dominates in that instance.

>i discovered they cut the [visible] light by
> about 1 f stop, which as i understand SPF would be about SPF 1.


That's not correct. The average white T-shirt has an SPF of 5 to 9.

See http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1997/05may/potera.htm

Additionally, some T-shirts are treated with UV-active agents to
brighten them; these block slightly more of the UV as a result. Some
laundry detergents leave a small amount of such brighteners behind as
well.

>[the published data allegedly refers to UV light.]
>
>so then i started thinking about my arms.
>they are tan below the t shirt line, much whiter above.
>yet i wear sun screen every day, SPF 30+.


Yup. Funny how that works, eh?

>yet - here is the question -
>if the t shirt really has such a low SPF, why does it appear to do much
>more screening than the sun screen?


It screens *everything*. UVA and UVB cause sunburn and skin damage,
but tanning can occur without them in many individuals. Shade, which
is what a shirt provides, supresses all melanin production triggers.

>the t shirts are clearly screening more than the sunscreen.
>but how?


By being moderately opaque.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
 
>>recently, i read that white cotton t shirts have an SPF of about 5.

>>so then i started thinking about my arms.
>>they are tan below the t shirt line, much whiter above.
>>yet i wear sun screen every day, SPF 30+.




A shirt blocks better than lotion...come on you guys...duh
 
>
> >>so then i started thinking about my arms.
> >>they are tan below the t shirt line, much whiter above.
> >>yet i wear sun screen every day, SPF 30+.

>
> A shirt blocks better than lotion...come on you guys...duh


you would think.
yet there is information to the contrary.
i wanted to know which is actually true.

wle.
 
>
> >>so then i started thinking about my arms.
> >>they are tan below the t shirt line, much whiter above.
> >>yet i wear sun screen every day, SPF 30+.

>
> A shirt blocks better than lotion...come on you guys...duh


you would think.
yet there is information to the contrary.
i wanted to know which is actually true.

wle.
 
wle wrote:

> > A shirt blocks better than lotion...come on you guys...duh

>
> you would think.
> yet there is information to the contrary.
> i wanted to know which is actually true.


I found this article from a cotton industry site:

http://www.cottoninc.com/textilechemistry/homepage.cfm?page=616

Summary:

undyed white cotton = little or no protection
dyed cotton = good protection

There's also this article in Pubmed:

http://tinyurl.com/42owq

--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
 
Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 16 Aug 2004 09:09:43 -0700, [email protected] (wle) wrote:


> >i tried to measure the SPF with my camera.

>
> Won't work; the reasons take a bit of explaining. With an incident
> light meter, you could get a better estimate...but it would still be
> wrong, as the visible spectrum dominates in that instance.
>
> >i discovered they cut the [visible] light by
> > about 1 f stop, which as i understand SPF would be about SPF 1.


In the name of science, I did this experiment, outside in the sun
with an incident light meter pointing up. A white cotton t-shirt
reduced the reading by 1 f-stop. A black cotton t-shirt reduced
the reading by 4.5 f-stops. Both were typical Hanes-type shirts.

However, it would be grossly incorrect to assume that the black
t-shirt is that much (11 times) better at protecting you from the sun.
It's obvious that most of the light hitting the meter is scattered
or reradiated from the white t-shirt. It is actually pretty difficult
to make materials that transmit well in the UV. Most materials,
other than some metals and mirror coatings, don't reflect well in
the UV either; they like to absorb UV. (UV-transmitting optics have
to be made from special glass. This is one reason why even cheap
sunglasses protect your eyes from UV light.) I am sure that the
light meter, measuring visible light, isn't telling us much that is
useful about the SPF value of a t-shirt.

My opinion (that the experiment is meaningless) is driven by experience:
t-shirts and jerseys do very well at protecting from sunburn, at least
as well as sunscreen. If I wear something that doesn't quite cover up
to the tan line, I get a vicious sunburn but only up to the edge of the
clothing. This doesn't appear to correlate with color or material
of the clothing.

> That's not correct. The average white T-shirt has an SPF of 5 to 9.
>
> See http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1997/05may/potera.htm
>
> Additionally, some T-shirts are treated with UV-active agents to
> brighten them; these block slightly more of the UV as a result. Some
> laundry detergents leave a small amount of such brighteners behind as
> well.
>
> >[the published data allegedly refers to UV light.]
> >
> >so then i started thinking about my arms.
> >they are tan below the t shirt line, much whiter above.
> >yet i wear sun screen every day, SPF 30+.

>
> Yup. Funny how that works, eh?
>
> >yet - here is the question -
> >if the t shirt really has such a low SPF, why does it appear to do much
> >more screening than the sun screen?

>
> It screens *everything*. UVA and UVB cause sunburn and skin damage,
> but tanning can occur without them in many individuals. Shade, which
> is what a shirt provides, supresses all melanin production triggers.
>
> >the t shirts are clearly screening more than the sunscreen.
> >but how?

>
> By being moderately opaque.


[reformatted]

> >since i ride about 2 hours a day, all year, that;s all i wear in the summer.
> >[don;t want to have 7-10 bike jerseys at $xx a pop.]


> You're not alone, in case you haven't noticed.


BTW, if this is a real issue you can buy cotton-poly blend t-shirts. Or
get some soccer jerseys at the thrift store. Both will get less soaked
with sweat. Anyway, bike jerseys can be washed in the shower and dry
in a day, so you don't need 7-10 of them.
 
Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 16 Aug 2004 09:09:43 -0700, [email protected] (wle) wrote:


> >i tried to measure the SPF with my camera.

>
> Won't work; the reasons take a bit of explaining. With an incident
> light meter, you could get a better estimate...but it would still be
> wrong, as the visible spectrum dominates in that instance.
>
> >i discovered they cut the [visible] light by
> > about 1 f stop, which as i understand SPF would be about SPF 1.


In the name of science, I did this experiment, outside in the sun
with an incident light meter pointing up. A white cotton t-shirt
reduced the reading by 1 f-stop. A black cotton t-shirt reduced
the reading by 4.5 f-stops. Both were typical Hanes-type shirts.

However, it would be grossly incorrect to assume that the black
t-shirt is that much (11 times) better at protecting you from the sun.
It's obvious that most of the light hitting the meter is scattered
or reradiated from the white t-shirt. It is actually pretty difficult
to make materials that transmit well in the UV. Most materials,
other than some metals and mirror coatings, don't reflect well in
the UV either; they like to absorb UV. (UV-transmitting optics have
to be made from special glass. This is one reason why even cheap
sunglasses protect your eyes from UV light.) I am sure that the
light meter, measuring visible light, isn't telling us much that is
useful about the SPF value of a t-shirt.

My opinion (that the experiment is meaningless) is driven by experience:
t-shirts and jerseys do very well at protecting from sunburn, at least
as well as sunscreen. If I wear something that doesn't quite cover up
to the tan line, I get a vicious sunburn but only up to the edge of the
clothing. This doesn't appear to correlate with color or material
of the clothing.

> That's not correct. The average white T-shirt has an SPF of 5 to 9.
>
> See http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1997/05may/potera.htm
>
> Additionally, some T-shirts are treated with UV-active agents to
> brighten them; these block slightly more of the UV as a result. Some
> laundry detergents leave a small amount of such brighteners behind as
> well.
>
> >[the published data allegedly refers to UV light.]
> >
> >so then i started thinking about my arms.
> >they are tan below the t shirt line, much whiter above.
> >yet i wear sun screen every day, SPF 30+.

>
> Yup. Funny how that works, eh?
>
> >yet - here is the question -
> >if the t shirt really has such a low SPF, why does it appear to do much
> >more screening than the sun screen?

>
> It screens *everything*. UVA and UVB cause sunburn and skin damage,
> but tanning can occur without them in many individuals. Shade, which
> is what a shirt provides, supresses all melanin production triggers.
>
> >the t shirts are clearly screening more than the sunscreen.
> >but how?

>
> By being moderately opaque.


[reformatted]

> >since i ride about 2 hours a day, all year, that;s all i wear in the summer.
> >[don;t want to have 7-10 bike jerseys at $xx a pop.]


> You're not alone, in case you haven't noticed.


BTW, if this is a real issue you can buy cotton-poly blend t-shirts. Or
get some soccer jerseys at the thrift store. Both will get less soaked
with sweat. Anyway, bike jerseys can be washed in the shower and dry
in a day, so you don't need 7-10 of them.
 
Fx199 wrote:

> >
> >http://www.cottoninc.com/textilechemistry/homepage.cfm?page=616
> >
> >Summary:
> >
> >undyed white cotton = little or no protection

>
> oh come one now...take two bald guys...put em out in the sun, wrap one's head
> up in the "undyed cotton", lotion on the other guy ...who's gonna get burnt?


If the t-shirt is one layer thick, the guy with the t-shirt on his
head will get burnt. UV meters don't like.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
 
>Subject: Re: SPF of white cotton t-shirts
>From: Terry Morse [email protected]
>Date: 8/17/2004 7:25 PM US Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <[email protected]>
>
>Fx199 wrote:
>
>> >
>> >http://www.cottoninc.com/textilechemistry/homepage.cfm?page=616
>> >
>> >Summary:
>> >
>> >undyed white cotton = little or no protection

>>
>> oh come one now...take two bald guys...put em out in the sun, wrap one's

>head
>> up in the "undyed cotton", lotion on the other guy ...who's gonna get

>burnt?
>
>If the t-shirt is one layer thick, the guy with the t-shirt on his
>head will get burnt. UV meters don't like.
>--
>terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/


<shrug> I don't believe it. Even with some kind of loose weave undyed cotton,
that's not the kind of material we deal with in every day life, or redheads
wouldn't be able to wear white T-shirts.
 
Terry Morse wrote:

> If the t-shirt is one layer thick, the guy with the t-shirt on his
> head will get burnt. UV meters don't like.


"UV meters don't *lie*", rather.

--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
 
Benjamin Weiner wrote:

> Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 16 Aug 2004 09:09:43 -0700, [email protected] (wle) wrote:

>
>
>>>i tried to measure the SPF with my camera.

>>
>>Won't work; the reasons take a bit of explaining. With an incident
>>light meter, you could get a better estimate...but it would still be
>>wrong, as the visible spectrum dominates in that instance.
>>
>>
>>>i discovered they cut the [visible] light by
>>>about 1 f stop, which as i understand SPF would be about SPF 1.

>
>
> In the name of science, I did this experiment, outside in the sun
> with an incident light meter pointing up. A white cotton t-shirt
> reduced the reading by 1 f-stop. A black cotton t-shirt reduced
> the reading by 4.5 f-stops. Both were typical Hanes-type shirts.
>
> However, it would be grossly incorrect to assume that the black
> t-shirt is that much (11 times) better at protecting you from the sun.
> It's obvious that most of the light hitting the meter is scattered
> or reradiated from the white t-shirt. It is actually pretty difficult
> to make materials that transmit well in the UV. Most materials,
> other than some metals and mirror coatings, don't reflect well in
> the UV either; they like to absorb UV. (UV-transmitting optics have
> to be made from special glass. This is one reason why even cheap
> sunglasses protect your eyes from UV light.) I am sure that the
> light meter, measuring visible light, isn't telling us much that is
> useful about the SPF value of a t-shirt.
>
> My opinion (that the experiment is meaningless) is driven by experience:
> t-shirts and jerseys do very well at protecting from sunburn, at least
> as well as sunscreen. If I wear something that doesn't quite cover up
> to the tan line, I get a vicious sunburn but only up to the edge of the
> clothing. This doesn't appear to correlate with color or material
> of the clothing.
>
>
>>That's not correct. The average white T-shirt has an SPF of 5 to 9.
>>
>>See http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1997/05may/potera.htm
>>
>>Additionally, some T-shirts are treated with UV-active agents to
>>brighten them; these block slightly more of the UV as a result. Some
>>laundry detergents leave a small amount of such brighteners behind as
>>well.
>>
>>
>>>[the published data allegedly refers to UV light.]
>>>
>>>so then i started thinking about my arms.
>>>they are tan below the t shirt line, much whiter above.
>>>yet i wear sun screen every day, SPF 30+.

>>
>>Yup. Funny how that works, eh?
>>
>>
>>>yet - here is the question -
>>>if the t shirt really has such a low SPF, why does it appear to do much
>>>more screening than the sun screen?

>>
>>It screens *everything*. UVA and UVB cause sunburn and skin damage,
>>but tanning can occur without them in many individuals. Shade, which
>>is what a shirt provides, supresses all melanin production triggers.
>>
>>
>>>the t shirts are clearly screening more than the sunscreen.
>>>but how?

>>
>>By being moderately opaque.

>
>
> [reformatted]
>
>
>>>since i ride about 2 hours a day, all year, that;s all i wear in the summer.
>>>[don;t want to have 7-10 bike jerseys at $xx a pop.]

>
>
>>You're not alone, in case you haven't noticed.

>
>
> BTW, if this is a real issue you can buy cotton-poly blend t-shirts. Or
> get some soccer jerseys at the thrift store. Both will get less soaked
> with sweat. Anyway, bike jerseys can be washed in the shower and dry
> in a day, so you don't need 7-10 of them.


I recall reading a news article a while ago about a dermatologist who
was puzzled by his daughter's striped sunburn. It seems she was wearing
a black and white striped bathing suit, and the white stripes were
passing more rays than the black stripes which were absorbing them. In
other words, although white reflects, it also transmits.

--
Cheers! OliverS
When replying personally, remove "_nospam_"

"When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of
the human race." HG Wells
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Fx199) wrote:

>>Subject: Re: SPF of white cotton t-shirts
>>From: Terry Morse [email protected]
>>Date: 8/17/2004 7:25 PM US Eastern Standard Time
>>Message-id: <[email protected]>
>>
>>Fx199 wrote:
>>
>>> >
>>> >http://www.cottoninc.com/textilechemistry/homepage.cfm?page=616
>>> >
>>> >Summary:
>>> >
>>> >undyed white cotton = little or no protection
>>>
>>> oh come one now...take two bald guys...put em out in the sun, wrap one's

>>head
>>> up in the "undyed cotton", lotion on the other guy ...who's gonna get

>>burnt?
>>
>>If the t-shirt is one layer thick, the guy with the t-shirt on his
>>head will get burnt. UV meters don't like.
>>--
>>terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

>
><shrug> I don't believe it. Even with some kind of loose weave undyed cotton,
>that's not the kind of material we deal with in every day life, or redheads
>wouldn't be able to wear white T-shirts.


I'm a redhead, I live in central Texas (Waco) and I wear white
t-shirts all the time because I have no sense of fashion--because I live
in Waco! :) Actually, it's because they're $5 for 7 shirts at wal-mart
occasionally.
My neck burns, my face burns, my arms burn, but I have a hard,
well-defined line on each arm where nature ends and t-shirt begins. A
similar line around my red neck.
Whatever the SPF of my t-shirt, it's stops sunburns completely. It
even stops weldburns (much like sunburns, but more nasty) as I found out
one day after helping someone weld.
Hanes all the way.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail.net
 
>I recall reading a news article a while ago about a dermatologist who
>was puzzled by his daughter's striped sunburn. It seems she was wearing
>a black and white striped bathing suit, and the white stripes were
>passing more rays than the black stripes which were absorbing them. In
>other words, although white reflects, it also transmits.
>
>--
>Cheers! OliverS
>When replying personally, remove "_nospam_"
>
>"When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of
>the human race." HG Wells
>
>
>
>
>
>


Need pictures LOL
 
On 17 Aug 2004 11:11:27 -0700, [email protected] (wle) wrote:

>>
>> >>so then i started thinking about my arms.
>> >>they are tan below the t shirt line, much whiter above.
>> >>yet i wear sun screen every day, SPF 30+.

>>
>> A shirt blocks better than lotion...come on you guys...duh

>
>you would think.
>yet there is information to the contrary.
>i wanted to know which is actually true.


My wife makes fun of my "farmer's tan." Parts of my body regularly
covered by clothes, like a t-shirt, are pale, while uncovered parts of
my body are tan (or red, depending on the week). Why do you think I'm
pale? I think it's because a shirt of any type blocks the sun.
(Except maybe for those tan-through shirts that pop up occasionally.)

Pat

Email address works as is.
 

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