'splain somethin' please.

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Cletus D . Lee, Jan 29, 2004.

  1. Yesterday on my way home from work, I stopped of for groceries. I had me Giro with 3 panniers.
    Coming from work I had one loaded as usual with clothes (about 8 lbs) Also on board were two empty
    panniers on the rear rack. They were flat. About the best speed I could manage was ~18 mph. After
    visiting the grocery, I filled the two rear panniers (40L) with what I estimate was about 40 lbs of
    Milk, canned goods and fruit and vegetables including a Cantaloupe. The bike was noticeablyy heavier
    as I rolled it from the bike rack into the parking lot. I turned in to the street filled at rush
    hour. Traffic was moving at about 40 mph. I had one lane out of three so, I was not concerned with
    the bumper to bumper 40 mph traffic. I cranked the Giro up to cruising speed and could feel the load
    on the bike. I glanced at my speedometer and noticed that I was cruising almost effortlessly at 23
    mph. Not only that, with the additional mass, I could pretty much hold 23 mph all the way home.

    Why was the heavier bike faster? Same bike, same engine, maybe even a little less aero with the
    full panniers.
    --
    Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
    Tags:


  2. Steve Fox

    Steve Fox Guest

    I've always noticed that I go faster on flats with a load. True of DF and Tour Easy. They just
    develop an inertia (momentum) and GO! Enjoy!

    Steve

    Cletus D. Lee wrote:

    >Yesterday on my way home from work, I stopped of for groceries. I had me Giro with 3 panniers.
    >Coming from work I had one loaded as usual with clothes (about 8 lbs) Also on board were two empty
    >panniers on the rear rack. They were flat. About the best speed I could manage was ~18 mph. After
    >visiting the grocery, I filled the two rear panniers (40L) with what I estimate was about 40 lbs of
    >Milk, canned goods and fruit and vegetables including a Cantaloupe. The bike was noticeablyy
    >heavier as I rolled it from the bike rack into the parking lot. I turned in to the street filled at
    >rush hour. Traffic was moving at about 40 mph. I had one lane out of three so, I was not concerned
    >with the bumper to bumper 40 mph traffic. I cranked the Giro up to cruising speed and could feel
    >the load on the bike. I glanced at my speedometer and noticed that I was cruising almost
    >effortlessly at 23 mph. Not only that, with the additional mass, I could pretty much hold 23 mph
    >all the way home.
    >
    >Why was the heavier bike faster? Same bike, same engine, maybe even a little less aero with the
    >full panniers.
    >
    >

    --
    Steve Fox McKinleyville, CA http://SoTier2003.crazyguyonabike.com

    O \ _____,%) (*)-'------------(*)
     
  3. Gary Mc

    Gary Mc Guest

    Cletus D. Lee <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Yesterday on my way home from work, I stopped of for groceries. I had me Giro with 3 panniers.
    > Coming from work I had one loaded as usual with clothes (about 8 lbs) Also on board were two empty
    > panniers on the rear rack. They were flat. About the best speed I could manage was ~18 mph. After
    > visiting the grocery, I filled the two rear panniers (40L) with what I estimate was about 40 lbs
    > of Milk, canned goods and fruit and vegetables including a Cantaloupe. The bike was noticeablyy
    > heavier as I rolled it from the bike rack into the parking lot. I turned in to the street filled
    > at rush hour. Traffic was moving at about 40 mph. I had one lane out of three so, I was not
    > concerned with the bumper to bumper 40 mph traffic. I cranked the Giro up to cruising speed and
    > could feel the load on the bike. I glanced at my speedometer and noticed that I was cruising
    > almost effortlessly at 23 mph. Not only that, with the additional mass, I could pretty much hold
    > 23 mph all the way home.
    >
    > Why was the heavier bike faster? Same bike, same engine, maybe even a little less aero with the
    > full panniers.

    Cletus,

    I would be last person to claim special knowledge of speed. But, I have read Ian Sims (Greenspeed
    founder and owner) comments on tail fairings. He claims that fat rounded ones are more aero than the
    skinny ones that disappear behind the rider. Maybe your full panniers are more not less aero.

    I also remember a visit to a University of Michigan lab designing hulls for submarines. They
    mentioned that a bulb at the nose had less friction in the water than the knive blade noses that we
    usually associate with fast boats.

    Makes me wish that I had not drowsed my way through that fluid dynamics course in college.

    Gary McCarty, Greenspeed GTO, Salt Lake City
     
  4. Jack Davis

    Jack Davis Guest

    Cletus,

    I have found that my bike almost always goes faster down-hill or down-wind than it does the
    other way.

    Could it be that the store is at a slightly higher elevation? Or that there was a little breeze?

    If not, bike stores may be getting many requests for lead frames.

    Wishing I was in FL....

    jd

    "Cletus D. Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Yesterday on my way home from work, I stopped of for groceries. I had me Giro with 3 panniers.
    > Coming from work I had one loaded as usual with clothes (about 8 lbs) Also on board were two empty
    > panniers on the rear rack. They were flat. About the best speed I could manage was ~18 mph. After
    > visiting the grocery, I filled the two rear panniers (40L) with what I estimate was about 40 lbs
    > of Milk, canned goods and fruit and vegetables including a Cantaloupe. The bike was noticeablyy
    > heavier as I rolled it from the bike rack into the parking lot. I turned in to the street filled
    > at rush hour. Traffic was moving at about 40 mph. I had one lane out of three so, I was not
    > concerned with the bumper to bumper 40 mph traffic. I cranked the Giro up to cruising speed and
    > could feel the load on the bike. I glanced at my speedometer and noticed that I was cruising
    > almost effortlessly at 23 mph. Not only that, with the additional mass, I could pretty much hold
    > 23 mph all the way home.
    >
    > Why was the heavier bike faster? Same bike, same engine, maybe even a little less aero with the
    > full panniers.
    > --
    > Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    > - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  5. Cletus Lee

    Cletus Lee Guest

    In article <AEvSb.35101$P%[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > Cletus,
    >
    > I have found that my bike almost always goes faster down-hill or down-wind than it does the
    > other way.
    >
    > Could it be that the store is at a slightly higher elevation? Or that there was a little breeze?
    >
    > If not, bike stores may be getting many requests for lead frames.
    >
    > Wishing I was in FL....

    Or you could just be here on the flat Texas Gulf Coast. Sorry to blow your theory, but from work to
    the Grocery and home is all due West. The elevation is between 48' and 52' ASL. The wind was out of
    the ESE but only at 3-5 mph. Any advantage I got from the wind would have been the same before and
    after the grocery.
    --

    Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  6. What happened here was a lesson on the advantages of aero offsetting weight. A local cycling buddy
    had airbags he would run in his pannier for the reasons you described. It was enough of a lesson for
    him to encourage the purchase of a faster bike. Bike he rides now is a very aero 50 pounds and no
    one can catch him on the open road. Including the climbs! Speedy

    "Cletus D. Lee" wrote:

    > Yesterday on my way home from work, I stopped of for groceries. I had me Giro with 3 panniers.
    > Coming from work I had one loaded as usual with clothes (about 8 lbs) Also on board were two empty
    > panniers on the rear rack. They were flat. About the best speed I could manage was ~18 mph. After
    > visiting the grocery, I filled the two rear panniers (40L) with what I estimate was about 40 lbs
    > of Milk, canned goods and fruit and vegetables including a Cantaloupe. The bike was noticeablyy
    > heavier as I rolled it from the bike rack into the parking lot. I turned in to the street filled
    > at rush hour. Traffic was moving at about 40 mph. I had one lane out of three so, I was not
    > concerned with the bumper to bumper 40 mph traffic. I cranked the Giro up to cruising speed and
    > could feel the load on the bike. I glanced at my speedometer and noticed that I was cruising
    > almost effortlessly at 23 mph. Not only that, with the additional mass, I could pretty much hold
    > 23 mph all the way home.
    >
    > Why was the heavier bike faster? Same bike, same engine, maybe even a little less aero with the
    > full panniers.
    > --
    > Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    > - Bellaire, TX USA -

    -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1
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  7. Jack Davis

    Jack Davis Guest

    Cletus,

    Well, gosh....think how fast you would have been with 60 lbs. of food on board.

    And, (back in the '60s) I drove across Texas....I thought that road was never going to get out of
    Texas......it's a REALLY BIG state. (and mostly flat as I recall.)

    jd

    "Cletus Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <AEvSb.35101$P%[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...
    > > Cletus,
    > >
    > > I have found that my bike almost always goes faster down-hill or
    down-wind
    > > than it does the other way.
    > >
    > > Could it be that the store is at a slightly higher elevation? Or that
    there
    > > was a little breeze?
    > >
    > > If not, bike stores may be getting many requests for lead frames.
    > >
    > > Wishing I was in FL....
    >
    > Or you could just be here on the flat Texas Gulf Coast. Sorry to blow
    your theory, but from work
    > to the Grocery and home is all due West. The elevation is between 48' and
    52' ASL. The wind was out
    > of the ESE but only at 3-5 mph. Any advantage I got from the wind would
    have been the same before
    > and after the grocery.
    > --
    >
    > Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    > - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  8. Harv

    Harv Guest

    The bag boy got bored shagging carts in the parking lot and dicked with your
    computer circumference setting?
    "Cletus D. Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Yesterday on my way home from work, I stopped of for groceries. I had me Giro with 3 panniers.
    > Coming from work I had one loaded as usual with clothes (about 8 lbs) Also on board were two empty
    > panniers on the rear rack. They were flat. About the best speed I could manage was ~18 mph. After
    > visiting the grocery, I filled the two rear panniers (40L) with what I estimate was about 40 lbs
    > of Milk, canned goods and fruit and vegetables including a Cantaloupe. The bike was noticeablyy
    > heavier as I rolled it from the bike rack into the parking lot. I turned in to the street filled
    > at rush hour. Traffic was moving at about 40 mph. I had one lane out of three so, I was not
    > concerned with the bumper to bumper 40 mph traffic. I cranked the Giro up to cruising speed and
    > could feel the load on the bike. I glanced at my speedometer and noticed that I was cruising
    > almost effortlessly at 23 mph. Not only that, with the additional mass, I could pretty much hold
    > 23 mph all the way home.
    >
    > Why was the heavier bike faster? Same bike, same engine, maybe even a little less aero with the
    > full panniers.
    > --
    > Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    > - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  9. I'm bettin' the first part of the ride basically got you warmed up, then after walking around in the
    store for a while your muscles got a little stretch, so when you got back on the bike, you were
    really ready. In warmer days, it always took me 5-10 miles before I'd really hit cruising speed
    (which varied with the time of the year). If your wx is a little cooler than it's been, there could
    have been some physiological adjusting going on during the first part of the ride that you wouldn't
    normally experience. I'm guessing of course, but an office job just might exacerbate the phenomenon.

    'Course, I seem to recall (ahem) someone riding along at 27mph on a 60 lb Stratus..., maybe it's the
    attraction of gravity between that satellite of a bike and some large buildings. Or maybe it's
    tinfoil hats. I dunno.

    Howard

    (bitshift, etc to respond)
     
  10. In article <[email protected]>, Howard Bishop
    <bishop(1199<<1)@yazhooz.com> says...
    > I'm bettin' the first part of the ride basically got you warmed up, then after walking around in
    > the store for a while your muscles got a little stretch, so when you got back on the bike, you
    > were really ready. In warmer days, it always took me 5-10 miles before I'd really hit cruising
    > speed (which varied with the time of the year). If your wx is a little cooler than it's been,
    > there could have been some physiological adjusting going on during the first part of the ride that
    > you wouldn't normally experience. I'm guessing of course, but an office job just might exacerbate
    > the phenomenon.
    The sun had nearly set by the time I got back on the bike, I cooled down quite a bit the hour or so
    I was in the store. I was actually wet and chilled to the bone when I re-mounted the bike The
    temperature had dropped nearly 10 degrees during the time I was in the store.

    > 'Course, I seem to recall (ahem) someone riding along at 27mph on a 60 lb Stratus..., maybe it's
    > the attraction of gravity between that satellite of a bike and some large buildings. Or maybe it's
    > tinfoil hats. I dunno.

    Yes, but the Lance wannabe was askin' for it. Last Wed., My Giro and groceries was probably weighing
    close to 75lb. As Steve suggested in another post, the tailbox aero effect of the loaded panniers
    might have had something to it. IIRC. the Stratus was hauling those same two panniers full of
    clothes. Maybe adding to the aero effect.

    I am going to have to get that tailbox together...

    --
    Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  11. Freewheeling

    Freewheeling Guest

    Home is where the heart is.

    --
    --Scott
    "Cletus D. Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Yesterday on my way home from work, I stopped of for groceries. I had
    > me Giro with 3 panniers. Coming from work I had one loaded as usual
    > with clothes (about 8 lbs) Also on board were two empty panniers on the
    > rear rack. They were flat. About the best speed I could manage was ~18
    > mph. After visiting the grocery, I filled the two rear panniers (40L)
    > with what I estimate was about 40 lbs of Milk, canned goods and fruit
    > and vegetables including a Cantaloupe. The bike was noticeablyy
    > heavier as I rolled it from the bike rack into the parking lot. I
    > turned in to the street filled at rush hour. Traffic was moving at
    > about 40 mph. I had one lane out of three so, I was not concerned with
    > the bumper to bumper 40 mph traffic. I cranked the Giro up to cruising
    > speed and could feel the load on the bike. I glanced at my speedometer
    > and noticed that I was cruising almost effortlessly at 23 mph. Not
    > only that, with the additional mass, I could pretty much hold 23 mph
    > all the way home.
    >
    > Why was the heavier bike faster? Same bike, same engine, maybe even a
    > little less aero with the full panniers.
    > --
    > Cletus D. Lee
    > Bacchetta Giro
    > Lightning Voyager
    > http://www.clee.org
    > - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  12. Moosebear

    Moosebear New Member

    Joined:
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    Without the knowledge to enter into a physics debate, perhaps concern with weight is one more example of a carryover mythology from the racing bike world being applied falsely applied to 'bents.

    Maybe the Europeans are right, some of thier sturdy, finely built bents weight nearly 50 lbs...

    Maybe weight is not as important as we sometimes think...?:eek:
     
  13. On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:52:16 GMT, Moosebear
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Maybe the Europeans are right, some of thier sturdy, finely built bents weight nearly 50 lbs...

    In Zach Kaplan's review of the BIGHA this month in Recumbent Cyclist News, he pointed out that the
    weight of the BIGHA configured for a ride in the Nevada desert was well north of 50 lb.
     
  14. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:52:16 GMT, Moosebear <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Maybe the Europeans are right, some of thier sturdy, finely built bents weight nearly 50 lbs...
    >
    > In Zach Kaplan's review of the BIGHA this month in Recumbent Cyclist News, he pointed out that the
    > weight of the BIGHA configured for a ride in the Nevada desert was well north of 50 lb.

    But is is fast like a Big wheel bike or a turtle like the Bike E?
    --
    Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
    - Bellaire, TX USA -
     
  15. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Cletus D. Lee wrote:

    > But is is fast like a Big wheel bike or a turtle like the Bike E?

    Big wheels are fixed gear, direct drive, moving BB, OSS, delta trikes.

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities
     
  16. Bill Anton

    Bill Anton Guest

    Hello Cletus,

    Here's my 'splanation. First of all, the weight will make it harder to accelerate but not maintain
    speed on the flat. I 'spect the situation would be different if you were climbing the ship channel
    bridge (and I don't know why you'd ever want to do that!) Second, you're no doubt aware of the
    additional weight so you're putting extra effort into the pedals to compensate. This same extra
    effort that gets the load moving, if maintained, will result in a faster cruising speed. A HRM could
    confirm this. And, of course, heavy traffic zipping by has been known to make cyclists put in the
    extra effort to "go with the flow". I remember one time, playing leapfrog with a Metro bus on
    Chimney Rock, who would insist on passing me, only to pull over and stop, forcing me to pass him...
    repeating this drill 4 or 5 times. Ahh, the sweet smell of deisel soot! You gotta love it!

    Well, Super Sunday is over, and I'm sure Houstonians will be glad to see traffic return to it's
    normal maddening gridlock. Much colder here in Lubbock, but I do still get to ride once a week or
    so when the temperature clibs to the mid-40's or 50's. Saturday was nice for riding. Still love
    my modified 26x26 Vision--like a poor man's Bacchetta Strada, except the steering geometry sux at
    low speeds.

    Bill Anton 2001 Vision R-40 26x26 SWB OSS Lubbock, TX, USA
    http://community.webshots.com/user/wjanton

    Cletus D. Lee <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Yesterday on my way home from work, I stopped of for groceries. I had me Giro with 3 panniers.
    > Coming from work I had one loaded as usual with clothes (about 8 lbs) Also on board were two empty
    > panniers on the rear rack. They were flat. About the best speed I could manage was ~18 mph. After
    > visiting the grocery, I filled the two rear panniers (40L) with what I estimate was about 40 lbs
    > of Milk, canned goods and fruit and vegetables including a Cantaloupe. The bike was noticeablyy
    > heavier as I rolled it from the bike rack into the parking lot. I turned in to the street filled
    > at rush hour. Traffic was moving at about 40 mph. I had one lane out of three so, I was not
    > concerned with the bumper to bumper 40 mph traffic. I cranked the Giro up to cruising speed and
    > could feel the load on the bike. I glanced at my speedometer and noticed that I was cruising
    > almost effortlessly at 23 mph. Not only that, with the additional mass, I could pretty much hold
    > 23 mph all the way home.
    >
    > Why was the heavier bike faster? Same bike, same engine, maybe even a little less aero with the
    > full panniers.
     
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