Splined-sprocket fixie hub

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Adam Rush, Jun 10, 2004.

  1. Adam Rush

    Adam Rush Guest

    Is there such a thing as a fixie hub which accepts splined sprockets
    (e.g. Sachs, Shimano, S-A)? I know there are many cheap threaded and
    lockringed options, but I have so many dreigang sprockets laying
    around.

    Is there a reason this not feasible or popular--other than the fact
    that they only go to 15-tooth?
     
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  2. On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 03:11:44 -0700, Adam Rush wrote:

    > Is there such a thing as a fixie hub which accepts splined sprockets
    > (e.g. Sachs, Shimano, S-A)? I know there are many cheap threaded and
    > lockringed options, but I have so many dreigang sprockets laying
    > around.
    >
    > Is there a reason this not feasible or popular--other than the fact
    > that they only go to 15-tooth?


    I have seen such a thing, but IIRC it was its own spline pattern, not
    designed to fit, say, a Shimano cassette cog. That would be ideal, I
    think, and I am surprised there aren't a bunch of these available. There
    is one other odd one, which bolts on like a chainring. The company
    sponsors the Lehigh County Velodrome, so you can find out about it from
    there if interested. They only go down to 15 as well, while Shimano
    sprockets are available down to 11.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say this; but
    _`\(,_ | what canst thou say? -- George Fox.
    (_)/ (_) |
     
  3. m-gineering

    m-gineering Guest

    David L. Johnson wrote:
    > On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 03:11:44 -0700, Adam Rush wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Is there such a thing as a fixie hub which accepts splined sprockets
    >>(e.g. Sachs, Shimano, S-A)? I know there are many cheap threaded and
    >>lockringed options, but I have so many dreigang sprockets laying
    >>around.
    >>
    >>Is there a reason this not feasible or popular--other than the fact
    >>that they only go to 15-tooth?

    >
    >
    > I have seen such a thing, but IIRC it was its own spline pattern, not
    > designed to fit, say, a Shimano cassette cog.


    made by Miche

    /Marten
     
  4. Steve

    Steve Guest

    Miche's design is only for their splined cogs & they seriously missed the
    mark with their design as instead of saving the hubs main thread you end up
    using the lockring thread instead. Ideally they should have built a lockring
    into their steel boss instead of relying on the hub's.
    "m-gineering" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > David L. Johnson wrote:
    > > On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 03:11:44 -0700, Adam Rush wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >>Is there such a thing as a fixie hub which accepts splined sprockets
    > >>(e.g. Sachs, Shimano, S-A)? I know there are many cheap threaded and
    > >>lockringed options, but I have so many dreigang sprockets laying
    > >>around.
    > >>
    > >>Is there a reason this not feasible or popular--other than the fact
    > >>that they only go to 15-tooth?

    > >
    > >
    > > I have seen such a thing, but IIRC it was its own spline pattern, not
    > > designed to fit, say, a Shimano cassette cog.

    >
    > made by Miche
    >
    > /Marten
     
  5. John Dacey

    John Dacey Guest

    On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:49:50 +0800, "Steve" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >Miche's design is only for their splined cogs & they seriously missed the
    >mark with their design as instead of saving the hubs main thread you end up
    >using the lockring thread instead. Ideally they should have built a lockring
    >into their steel boss instead of relying on the hub's.


    If the lockring were part of the adaptor, there'd be nothing to
    prevent the adaptor from unscrewing from the hubshell if (when)
    significant reverse force is applied. There's a picture (~56k) of the
    Miche system at

    http://www.businesscycles.com/graphics/tcog-miche4.jpg


    On the hub in the photo, a sprocket adaptor (lower left) has been
    threaded onto the hub's sprocket threads and the splined sprocket
    (lower right) pressed on the adaptor. The lockring (upper right), once
    fitted, will keep the sprocket in place and prevent the adaptor from
    unthreading in the event of back pressure.

    The page on which this photo appears is
    http://www.businesscycles.com/tcog-miche.htm

    John
    -------------------------------
    John Dacey
    Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
    Since 1983
    Our catalogue of track equipment: online since 1996.
    http://www.businesscycles.com
     
  6. ant

    ant Guest

    John Dacey <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > The page on which this [miche splined track cog] photo appears is
    > http://www.businesscycles.com/tcog-miche.htm


    wow, i knew it existed, but didnt know how it worked. i wish there was
    a version of these that accepted shimano cassette cogs, maybe with a
    spacer between the cog and the lockring as necessary. would be simple
    enough. are the shimano cog splines uniform enough to be able to make
    a splined body that would reliably accept them with a tight (press)
    fit?

    maybe something for Surly to make?

    anthony
     
  7. "John Dacey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:49:50 +0800, "Steve" <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >Miche's design is only for their splined cogs & they seriously missed the
    > >mark with their design as instead of saving the hubs main thread you end

    up
    > >using the lockring thread instead. Ideally they should have built a

    lockring
    > >into their steel boss instead of relying on the hub's.

    >
    > If the lockring were part of the adaptor, there'd be nothing to
    > prevent the adaptor from unscrewing from the hubshell if (when)
    > significant reverse force is applied. There's a picture (~56k) of the
    > Miche system at
    >
    > http://www.businesscycles.com/graphics/tcog-miche4.jpg
    >
    >
    > On the hub in the photo, a sprocket adaptor (lower left) has been
    > threaded onto the hub's sprocket threads and the splined sprocket
    > (lower right) pressed on the adaptor. The lockring (upper right), once
    > fitted, will keep the sprocket in place and prevent the adaptor from
    > unthreading in the event of back pressure.
    >
    > The page on which this photo appears is
    > http://www.businesscycles.com/tcog-miche.htm
    >

    I use this system and it's fantastic in that gear changes can be made much
    faster (and with less mess). Additionally, the Miche lockring mates
    perfectly with the 6-prong Shimano Durace BB lockring tool (for the 9sp BB).
    As the chain's force isn't being applied through the lockring (assuming
    there's nothing horribly wrong with your chainline) this lockring design
    isn't any worse or better than a standard track cog set-up. (as you still
    need to un-do and do-up the lockring just as often, its just that you then
    don't have to un-do and do-up on the hub's sprocket thread all the time
    too).
    Throw your chain-whip away.....
    The Miche crankset also save times changing gear as the chainring bolts
    thread directly into the crank arm, so you don't mave to muck about looking
    for the backs of the chainring bolts on the floor. Someone reported on
    aus.bicycle that they had managed to rip some of the chainring bolts' heads
    off, but the thread in the crank was undamaged. I don't know what happens
    if you strip the thread in the crank.....

    Cheers
    Gemma
    Gemma
     
  8. "Gemma Kernich" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > The Miche crankset also save times changing gear as the chainring
    > bolts thread directly into the crank arm, so you don't mave to muck
    > about looking for the backs of the chainring bolts on the floor.
    > Someone reported on aus.bicycle that they had managed to rip
    > some of the chainring bolts' heads off, but the thread in the crank
    > was undamaged. I don't know what happens if you strip the thread
    > in the crank.....


    I suppose you just clear the swarf out of the stripped threads and use
    conventional two-piece bolts.

    James Thomson
     
  9. ant <[email protected]> wrote:
    > John Dacey <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >
    > > The page on which this [miche splined track cog] photo appears is
    > > http://www.businesscycles.com/tcog-miche.htm


    > wow, i knew it existed, but didnt know how it worked. i wish there was
    > a version of these that accepted shimano cassette cogs, maybe with a
    > spacer between the cog and the lockring as necessary. would be simple
    > enough. are the shimano cog splines uniform enough to be able to make
    > a splined body that would reliably accept them with a tight (press)
    > fit?


    > maybe something for Surly to make?


    The ID of a Shimano splined cog is about 32mm, while the threads on a
    track hub/cog are 1.375", about 35mm. So there's no way to make that
    work with a threaded-on adaptor like the Miche unit (unless the
    adaptor sticks rightward beyond the threads, which has a new set of
    problems). I assume the extra diameter of the adaptor is also why the
    Miche cogs only go down to 14t.

    Conceivably someone could make a fixed splined hub that
    accepted Shimano cogs held on by a lockring, shades of
    Uniglide. I think the splined part (the non-freehub) would
    have to be steel, aluminum would get severely notched.

    BTW, if you use Shimano cogs for singlespeed applications,
    Uniglide or BMX cogs are preferred - Hyperglide cogs have
    short deformed teeth for easier chain derailment.
     
  10. dvt

    dvt Guest

    James Thomson wrote:
    > "Gemma Kernich" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>I don't know what happens if you strip the thread
    >>in the crank.....


    > I suppose you just clear the swarf out of the stripped threads and use
    > conventional two-piece bolts.


    Or maybe enlarge the hole and put in helicoils.

    --
    Dave
    dvt at psu dot edu
     
  11. Kinky Cowboy

    Kinky Cowboy Guest

    On 11 Jun 2004 00:46:10 -0800, Benjamin Weiner <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >ant <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> John Dacey <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> >
    >> > The page on which this [miche splined track cog] photo appears is
    >> > http://www.businesscycles.com/tcog-miche.htm

    >
    >> wow, i knew it existed, but didnt know how it worked. i wish there was
    >> a version of these that accepted shimano cassette cogs, maybe with a
    >> spacer between the cog and the lockring as necessary. would be simple
    >> enough. are the shimano cog splines uniform enough to be able to make
    >> a splined body that would reliably accept them with a tight (press)
    >> fit?

    >
    >> maybe something for Surly to make?

    >
    >The ID of a Shimano splined cog is about 32mm, while the threads on a
    >track hub/cog are 1.375", about 35mm. So there's no way to make that
    >work with a threaded-on adaptor like the Miche unit (unless the
    >adaptor sticks rightward beyond the threads, which has a new set of
    >problems). I assume the extra diameter of the adaptor is also why the
    >Miche cogs only go down to 14t.
    >
    >Conceivably someone could make a fixed splined hub that
    >accepted Shimano cogs held on by a lockring, shades of
    >Uniglide. I think the splined part (the non-freehub) would
    >have to be steel, aluminum would get severely notched.
    >
    >BTW, if you use Shimano cogs for singlespeed applications,
    >Uniglide or BMX cogs are preferred - Hyperglide cogs have
    >short deformed teeth for easier chain derailment.


    The steel spline needs to be fixed to an alloy hubshell (or alloy
    flanges need to be fixed to a steel spline/barrel/bearing carrier) in
    a way which can transmit the torque from the sprocket to the spokes.
    The Miche system does this nicely without a hub redesign, with the
    minor inconvenience of restricting you to a 14t minimum. The advantage
    of quick and easy sprocket changes, together with reduced wear and
    tear on the sprocket thread, makes it very attractive. The sprockets
    seem nicely made, and even including the carrier they're cheaper at my
    LBS than either Dura Ace or Suntour. I'm not sure the Shimano cassette
    spline lends itself to being made close enough fitting to avoid
    backlash. Adventurous home mechanics might also try fitting a sprocket
    onto an ISO 6-bolt disc hub, apparently you only need 3 bolts for
    small sprockets, though this is still more work to change than the
    Miche.

    I concur about the BMX (DX) sprockets; they're cheap and widely
    available, though I bet the expensive and hard to come by King Kogs
    are even better on your singlespeed.


    Kinky Cowboy*

    *Batteries not included
    May contain traces of nuts
    Your milage may vary
     
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