Splitting 2x20 min into shorter intervals.

[swampy1970]

oh, you keep telling me. I like my trainer, I truly do. But I can't keep going hard for long periods of time. It really kills my mind. Killer accelerations or hard 3x3x30x30 sets, anything short and painful - they're fine but anything longer 4-5 minutes, I start to hate everything around, kinda demotivating.

Instead of thinking about the effort that you're currently doing, think about why you're doing the training in the first place. Focus on your goal.

If you have no goal, in all likelyhood, you'll probably not go hard enough to complete the training properly.

It could be that you're going too hard and it's just not possible to keep the effort going but if that's not the case and your goals aren't enough to motivate you to complete the training properly then maybe you need to rethink more than just your current training woes. Maybe the time allocated to your next trainer session should be spent re-thinking and planning...

 

[quenya]

An hour isn't worth getting the bike kit on unless its an interesting time trial...

25 with 5 minutes rest x 4 = 2 hours.

Get with the program ye young whippersnapper. Kids these days... sheesh.

But you have to add in 15-20 minutes to get out to the perfect location for intervals, then home! My 2x20s are usually about 1hr 20min, which has been getting me home nearer and nearer to dark. When I can score an afternoon off work I love longer sessions but they are too few and too far between. Someday soon the beater is going to get thrown into the turbo and all my enjoyment of cycling will end.

 

[quenya]

Instead of thinking about the effort that you're currently doing, think about why you're doing the training in the first place. Focus on your goal.

If you have no goal, in all likelyhood, you'll probably not go hard enough to complete the training properly.

It could be that you're going too hard and it's just not possible to keep the effort going but if that's not the case and your goals aren't enough to motivate you to complete the training properly then maybe you need to rethink more than just your current training woes. Maybe the time allocated to your next trainer session should be spent re-thinking and planning...

Well said!

 

[swampy1970]

Someday soon the beater is going to get thrown into the turbo and all my enjoyment of cycling will end.

See... you're in the wrong mindset already.

You should be thinking - a full winters worth of quality, uninterupted training and I should be better prepared to ride faster than the old grandma down the street next year.

 

[quenya]

See... you're in the wrong mindset already.

You should be thinking - a full winters worth of quality, uninterupted training and I should be better prepared to ride faster than the old grandma down the street next year.

luckily in the central valley I can ride outside all year, which is why I so dislike training indoors. I will be doing a lot of running until November, but will keep up most of my cycling fitness with long weekend rides, mountain biking, and trainer interval sessions. Hopefully November and December will allow me to build ever more power/fitness.

Right now my mindset is: Next year I'll start racing! I will attack CTK for time and finishing position! I'll be damned if I'm going to waste all the work I've done and progress I've made this year just to have to start over! And that old lady, she's going down!

 

[swampy1970]

And that old lady, she's going down!

Dude... wrong forum for that kinda talk.

oldcougars.com

I decided to get the Cat5 upgrade out of the way before the end of this year and it's been pretty much good fun so far. Riding with the Cat5's has been a challenge in itself. Thankfully, riding over riders that have thrown themselves at the floor mid corner hasn't been too bad but the 'march of the lemmings' has been the worst - the "we're on the front so we have to go really really hard for as long as we can" which lasts for about 40 seconds before the go bang and drop off the back...

Riding Cat 4/5 events that are mainly Cat4 is much much easier.

 

[quenya]

There are a few crits nearby left this year, including a 'clinic' and crit in Kingsburg, but they are all on weekends when I have obligations or vacations with my wife. And it turns out that as supportive as she is, I'm not allowed to race bikes on our anniversary

dude swampy how did you figure out my other most used bookmark?

 

[gman0482]

Am I the only one that loves doing hard as$ trainer workouts ?

Seriously, if your mind is stuck on "Damn this sucks, when is it gonna be over ! " then you will never get better. Instead you should be thinking "I feeling stronger with every leg beating I get !"

My favorite trainer workout ? 1 x 120's. (once in a while) Try that out instead of braking up 2x20's.

Living in flats ?? I live in a little 3rd floor apartment, with a nutbag lady downstairs that pounds on walls if I drop a piece of paper. WHO CARES ?? She tried calling the office on me. I told them I have to exercise for at least 1 hour per day, doctors orders.

 

[dot]

Instead of thinking about the effort that you're currently doing, think about why you're doing the training in the first place. Focus on your goal.

If you have no goal, in all likelyhood, you'll probably not go hard enough to complete the training properly.

It's not about goals and such. My brain needs constant input of information to crunch and munch and on longer intervals on a trainer there's none (kinda I'm too smart to be a better cyclist). I bought rollers recently, tried and liked them. They are more fun and less boring but there isn't enough load, although I hope there is enough to keep 2x20 pace.

 

[quenya]

kinda I'm too smart to be a better cyclist

I love this!

 

[gman0482]

Ok I get it. So you're not fired up and wanting/needing/dreaming of improving and getting stronger (like me for example) so next year you can be that much closer to beating everyone on the road. You just get on the rollers to... loose some weight ? kill some time ? do some thinking ?

So there's no solution that you will find here. Just do it or not, period.


Take away the tv, music, any distractions, and leave me my fan and PM, and I'm in heaven (or hell depending on intensity) for hours.

 

[swampy1970]

There are a few crits nearby left this year, including a 'clinic' and crit in Kingsburg, but they are all on weekends when I have obligations or vacations with my wife. And it turns out that as supportive as she is, I'm not allowed to race bikes on our anniversary

dude swampy how did you figure out my other most used bookmark?

Because my old mother in law told me that she was being pestered by a central valley cyclist with a funny name

Anniversaries... They're the reason why I have 2 races this weekend, 3 the weekend after and nothing else till The Everest...

... But I earned browny points by choosing not to race that weekend

 

[swampy1970]

Am I the only one that loves doing hard as$ trainer workouts ?

Seriously, if your mind is stuck on "Damn this sucks, when is it gonna be over ! " then you will never get better. Instead you should be thinking "I feeling stronger with every leg beating I get !"

My favorite trainer workout ? 1 x 120's. (once in a while) Try that out instead of braking up 2x20's.

Living in flats ?? I live in a little 3rd floor apartment, with a nutbag lady downstairs that pounds on walls if I drop a piece of paper. WHO CARES ?? She tried calling the office on me. I told them I have to exercise for at least 1 hour per day, doctors orders.

While I don't really enjoy riding the trainer, its downfalls are more than overshadowed by the benefits...

... But this coming winters training isn't looking pretty.

 

[kopride]

Here is what I do to break up the boredom and save my testicles. During the 20 minute interval, stand and upshift about every 5 minutes (5:00; 10:00; 15:00; 19:00)--try and keep the watts the same but just crank 30-45 seconds standing at a bit lower cadence in a higher gear. I do the last "stand" with about a minute to go and try and make sure that I finish strong @ 10 watts over the target range. This way, mentally, each 20 feels more like a 4 x 5 and the mental breaks seem to help with boredom. I also suffer from chronic epididymitis; and these brief breaks seem to help stop the numbness and inflammation that comes with just sitting in the saddle for 20 minute stretches. It's the old joke, how do you eat an elephant, one bite at a time. Start to mentally break down a longer interval into individual pieces; you can even lay off a bit, 30 seconds or so to reward yourself. As long as the target stays the same, these mini breaks don't seem to harm the effect. I can knock out a 2 x 20, with 5 minute RBI and a 10 minute warmup and 5 minute warm down in an hour. I would think I would have a hard time breaking the 40 minutes of real work into actual smaller intervals and finishing in a similar time period unless you shorten the RBIs--and then I think you might be better doing over/unders or some other workout, if you are time stressed.

I go through this with my riding buddies all the time. Many of them refuse to spend the two lousy hours per week on the trainer or doing intervals that is really the minimum amount of time you can do during the week to make minimal improvement over time. And the two sessions of 2 x 20s @SST per week plus weekend rides or races is really the bare minimum after you picked off the low hanging newbie fitness gains. It drives me crazy. Some of these guys have the talent and they ride these long time-intensive rides on the weekend, but they refuse to just jump on the trainer and do the 2 x 20s. They ***** at every long hill or when the pace gets anything past LSD. Again, it's about goals, but 2 x 20s were developed to give an easy to follow basic workout plan for the time stressed. I run my own business, have four kids with sports, and I can squeeze in two hours of trainer time per week plus the weekend, some weeks I can squeeze in 3 sessions and I start to feel the difference on the weekend. I get annoyed if we are constantly waiting or hanging back for a rider who doesn't do the bare minimum of midweek training. And if you are going to spend the better part of a weekend participating in a race, how can you ***** about two hours during the midweek And if you can't crank out two quality 20 minute SST intervals, I really question whether you can do 6 x 5 minutes at higher levels, which is a very brutal workout

I mean there is a tough love aspect to this thread, but if you are only on there for an hour, you have to make that hour work for you. My two cents, but you are basically asking: "how do you make the easiest marginally productive workout you can possibly do, easier?" And the answer is I don't know. The workout was designed to be easy enough that you can recover from workout to workout, but hard enough that you still improve. If you make the workout easier, then you might not improve. If you make the intervals shorter but harder, then you are starting to move out of the sweet spot, and recovery becomes more of a problem.

 

[wfrogge]

I wonder what is the shortest duration I can split 2x20 intervals into to keep them effective? What recovery period between them?

I need this for my trainer/rollers workouts, 20 min of steady work is too long and boring for me and my butt particularly, I want something shorter.

Any work you do on the bike can be effective in raising your FTP but the workout you select may not be the most "bang for the buck"..... In short most say anything less than 2x20 gives dimishing returns. Personally I say 3x15s would give good results.

No matter how you slice it your butt will be on the trainer for an hour + . I say HTFU and do the 2x20s.

 

[SolarEnergy]

Originally Posted by dot .

I wonder what is the shortest duration I can split 2x20 intervals into to keep them effective? What recovery period between them?

Without necessarily splitting your 20min bouts into shorter intervals, inducing some variability within the effort may do the trick.

I faced similar question recently in building a power based spinning program for time trialists. Every session, we got a threshold block which is at least 20min long. Of course, it is supported by some music.

I use the variation in energy provided by the music to create slight variations (riding position, resistance, cadence). Throughout the effort, the power level is kept fairly constant with a few 15sec breaks here and there. Of course, since I am driven by the energy provided by the music, I do not structure these variations in a symetrical manner. They could be riding on flat, tail wind for 1:15 followed by a 2percent grade incline head wind for 4:30 followed by a 20sec descend etc... It mimics actual variation found in real life semi-rolling courses if you may.

The goal in attempting to break boredom isn't only to entertain or make one's life more enjoyable, but rather to set the table for best possible performances over the duration.