Spoke count and gauge for open pro wheelset?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Zaf, Mar 11, 2003.

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  1. Zaf

    Zaf Guest

    OK its time to get new wheels. Having read quite a few posts on wheels, I'm going to go Ultegra/Open
    Pro. So the only decision to make is spoke count and gauge. I'm a 190# rec rider the roads here in
    the northeast are pretty much destroyed from the severe winter, lets hope I can avoid these craters.
    I have no problem going to 36 in

    offers them with 15/16/16 spokes, would these be sufficient (36R,
    32F)? Also, any down side if I yield again to vanity and go with a color anodized rim?
     
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  2. On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 18:36:09 -0500, Zaf wrote:

    > OK its time to get new wheels. Having read quite a few posts on wheels, I'm going to go
    > Ultegra/Open Pro. So the only decision to make is spoke count and gauge. I'm a 190# rec rider the
    > roads here in the northeast are pretty much destroyed from the severe winter, lets hope I can
    > avoid these craters. I have no problem going to 36 in the rear. I find

    > 15/16/16 spokes, would these be sufficient (36R, 32F)?

    I don't know why they would not beef up the other end (which end?) to 15 again, but other than that
    they are OK. I tend to use 14/15, but there is an argument for 15/16. Especially with 36 in the
    rear, you should be OK.

    As far as potholes go, don't run into them. It's not so much your spokes, as your tires, that will
    go first. That and your teeth if you hit a really deep one. I prefer to avoid them.

    > Also, any down side if I yield again to vanity and go with a color anodized rim?

    Yeah, there is, but it's hard to avoid them. The hard anodizing makes the metal more brittle, more
    likely to crack. Cracks are bad. I really prefer plain polished rims, but they are hard to find.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you're _`\(,_ | still a rat. --Lilly
    Tomlin (_)/ (_) |
     
  3. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "Zaf" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > OK its time to get new wheels. Having read quite a few posts on wheels, I'm going to go
    > Ultegra/Open Pro. So the only decision to make is spoke count and gauge. I'm a 190# rec rider the
    > roads here in the northeast are pretty much destroyed from the severe winter, lets hope I can
    > avoid these craters. I have no problem going to 36 in

    > offers them with 15/16/16 spokes, would these be sufficient (36R,
    > 32F)? Also, any down side if I yield again to vanity and go with a color anodized rim?

    If you are going to ride 36, I think that the 15/16's will be OK. For the 32 hole front, I'd ride
    14/15's. Anything thinner in the front and you may run into problems (unless you go 36 there too).

    Mike
     
  4. In article <[email protected]>, Zaf <[email protected]> wrote:
    >OK its time to get new wheels. Having read quite a few posts on wheels, I'm going to go
    >Ultegra/Open Pro. So the only decision to make is spoke count and gauge. I'm a 190# rec rider the
    >roads here in the northeast are pretty much destroyed from the severe winter, lets hope I can avoid
    >these craters. I have no problem going to 36 in

    >offers them with 15/16/16 spokes, would these be sufficient (36R,
    >32F)?

    I think that will do fine if you use the right tires, but I see no reason to not do 36 in front as
    well if top reliability is the goal.

    > Also, any down side if I yield again to vanity and go with a color anodized rim?

    Might not last as well as silver. I have not personally had problems with cracking the current Mavic
    offerings when anodized, but in general I avoid anodizing when I have the option. Anodizing also
    often fades unevenly and may cause more aesthetic annoyance than benefit.

    Use brass nipples so you can get more spoke tension, the wheels will be stronger.

    --Paul
     
  5. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 00:13:58 GMT, "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote:

    > For the 32 hole front, I'd ride 14/15's. Anything thinner in the front and you may run into
    > problems (unless you go 36 there too).

    I"ve run straight 15 ga x 32 spokes forever and I weigh 200 lbs. I even use them in 28 hole rims.
    I've had no problems. What problem would you expect?
     
  6. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    [email protected] (Zaf) wrote:

    >OK its time to get new wheels. Having read quite a few posts on wheels, I'm going to go
    >Ultegra/Open Pro. So the only decision to make is spoke count and gauge. I'm a 190# rec rider the
    >roads here in the northeast are pretty much destroyed from the severe winter, lets hope I can avoid
    >these craters. I have no problem going to 36 in the rear.

    A 32 spoke front wheel will be at least as strong as a 36 spoke rear wheel, so there's no reason not
    to do this.

    >offers them with 15/16/16 spokes, would these be sufficient (36R,
    >32F)?

    I suspect you mean 15/16/15g. Yes, I think they'd be sufficient (I've run the same size spokes for
    years on my MTB wheels without problems).

    > Also, any down side if I yield again to vanity and go with a color anodized rim?

    Yep. The anodizing embrittles the surface of the rim, and the microscopic fractures that inevitably
    occur can propogate to the underlying metal in the rim (translated: your spokes may pull through).

    Also, follow the advice you got about using brass nipples.

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     
  7. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Mark Hickey writes:

    >> OK its time to get new wheels. Having read quite a few posts on wheels, I'm going to go
    >> Ultegra/Open Pro. So the only decision to make is spoke count and gauge. I'm a 190# rec rider the
    >> roads here in the northeast are pretty much destroyed from the severe winter, lets hope I can
    >> avoid these craters. I have no problem going to 36 in the rear.

    > A 32 spoke front wheel will be at least as strong as a 36 spoke rear wheel, so there's no reason
    > not to do this.

    I don't know on what basis you make that assessment but it depends on the use. When I descend I
    brake hard, hard enough to at times raise the rear wheel. Therefore, practically my full weight is
    on the front. If you are concerned about catastrophic failure or slackening spokes, 36 front and
    rear are a good measure. On the other hand, we have seen that 16 front and rear can handle the job
    under more ideal conditions. There are 14 spoke wheels as well.

    >> offers them with 15/16/16 spokes, would these be sufficient (36R,
    >> 32F)?

    > I suspect you mean 15/16/15g. Yes, I think they'd be sufficient (I've run the same size spokes for
    > years on my MTB wheels without problems).

    That's what I have been using since historic times with good success.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  8. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "Zaf" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > OK its time to get new wheels. Having read quite a few posts on wheels, I'm going to go
    > Ultegra/Open Pro. So the only decision to make is spoke count and gauge. I'm a 190# rec rider the
    > roads here in the northeast are pretty much destroyed from the severe winter, lets hope I can
    > avoid these craters. I have no problem going to 36 in

    > offers them with 15/16/16 spokes, would these be sufficient (36R,
    > 32F)? Also, any down side if I yield again to vanity and go with a color anodized rim?

    Listen to Jobst. Use the thinnest butted spokes which your builder can crank up to max tension
    without spoke twist in the final product. That seems to be 15/16 for most builders on modern hubs.
    Apparently 14/17's are difficult in thes regard.

    Robin Hubert
     
  9. zafdor-<< Having read quite a few posts on wheels, I'm going to go Ultegra/Open Pro.

    << So the only decision to make is spoke count and gauge. I'm a 190# rec rider the roads here in the
    northeast are pretty much destroyed from the severe winter.

    offers them with 15/16/16 spokes, would these be sufficient (36R,
    32F)?

    Not a good idea IMO-36 rear, 32 front, 14/15/brass/3 cross built well..

    << Also, any down side if I yield again to vanity and go with a color anodized rim?

    Colored(black for instance) is nbot really 'hard anodized' just colored.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (33)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  10. Harris

    Harris Guest

    Zaf <[email protected]> wrote:
    > OK its time to get new wheels. Having read quite a few posts on wheels, I'm going to go
    > Ultegra/Open Pro. So the only decision to make is spoke count and gauge. I'm a 190# rec rider the
    > roads here in the northeast are pretty much destroyed from the severe winter, lets hope I can
    > avoid these craters. I have no problem going to 36 in

    > offers them with 15/16/16 spokes, would these be sufficient (36R,
    > 32F)? Also, any down side if I yield again to vanity and go with a color anodized rim?

    I'm about the same weight as you. 15-16-15 all around is OK. I prefer either 14-15-14 or straight 15
    ga on the rear drive side.

    Have you read about the problems folks have had with "clicking" Open Pros?

    Art Harris
     
  11. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    [email protected] wrote:

    >Mark Hickey writes:

    >> A 32 spoke front wheel will be at least as strong as a 36 spoke rear wheel, so there's no reason
    >> not to do this.
    >
    >I don't know on what basis you make that assessment but it depends on the use. When I descend I
    >brake hard, hard enough to at times raise the rear wheel. Therefore, practically my full weight is
    >on the front. If you are concerned about catastrophic failure or slackening spokes, 36 front and
    >rear are a good measure. On the other hand, we have seen that 16 front and rear can handle the job
    >under more ideal conditions. There are 14 spoke wheels as well.

    I seldom worry about overloading my wheels when braking or when accelerating. The point I was making
    was that due to relative weight distribution on the bike and the limitation on bracing angle on the
    rear wheel's right (drive side) spokes, the same number of spokes aren't necessary on the front
    wheel to provide the same (though not necessarily greater...) margin. That's not to say there's
    anything wrong with using four more spokes, of course.

    I could be wrong, but I seem to remember you saying much the same thing in days gone by...

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     
  12. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    [email protected] (Zaf) wrote:

    >> Mark Hickey writes:

    >> > I suspect you mean 15/16/15g. Yes, I think they'd be sufficient (I've run the same size spokes
    >> > for years on my MTB wheels without problems).

    >Ooops, yes, I ment 15/16/15. I will be going with 36 in the front also, I think will only mean
    >another 50gm or so.

    It won't be that much. You're probably going to add ~22 grams, minus the material that's been
    drilled out of the extra four holes in the rim and hub (hey, as long as we're weighing "nits"). ;-)

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     
  13. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Zaf Dor? writes:

    >> I don't know on what basis you make that assessment but it depends on the use. When I descend I
    >> brake hard, hard enough to at times raise the rear wheel. Therefore, practically my full weight
    >> is on the front. If you are concerned about catastrophic failure or slackening spokes, 36 front
    >> and rear are a good measure. On the other hand, we have seen that 16 front and rear can handle
    >> the job under more ideal conditions. There are 14 spoke wheels as well.

    > Hmmmm, I thought those low spoke count wheels got proportionatly more strength from the rim,
    > making the spoke count comparison to an open pro moot.

    It gets down to two spokes having to support what four to five spokes do in conventional wheels.
    Even though 16 spokes seems radical and even more so when "paired" as many are, it is only half of
    what most people ride but with rims that are radially substantially stronger... and heavier. Lateral
    collapse, the way most wheels fail, is not as good as with more spokes.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  14. Bluto

    Bluto Guest

    "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote:

    > If you are going to ride 36, I think that the 15/16's will be OK. For the 32 hole front, I'd ride
    > 14/15's. Anything thinner in the front and you may run into problems (unless you go 36 there too).

    Right side rear spokes are more highly stressed than front spokes. If there is one place to use a
    heavier gauge in a wheelset, it is there.

    But none of the spokes in the described wheelset need to be heavier than 15/16ga. Changing the gauge
    of the spoke affects its elasticity and its ability to take torque during the tensioning process,
    but has little bearing on the strength of a wheel.

    I weigh over 350 lbs, and I have used 15/16 and 15/17ga. spokes on the left side of some dished
    wheels without ill effects. On wheels with 48 or more spokes, I use only thin spokes if I have
    the choice.

    Intelligently used, thinner spokes can yield a more durable wheel than thicker ones.

    Chalo Colina
     
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