Spoke lacing question

I am building a rear wheel 32 spoke double butted 14-15 gauge 3x cross drive and non drive side and
plan on using the new off center rim from Velocity. I am hoping to build a more balanced wheel with
more equal spoke tension to enhance the strength of the wheel. Now for the question, What do you
think about lacing all the spokes on the drive side "head in"? I have read that this can reduce
offset by as much as 50%. (Dave Thomas of Speed Dreams uses a technique employing this.) Will it
help with wheel strength or combined with the offset rim will this be too much? Chris

 

"dobr24" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I am building a rear wheel 32 spoke double butted 14-15 gauge 3x cross
drive
> and non drive side and plan on using the new off center rim from Velocity.
I
> am hoping to build a more balanced wheel with more equal spoke tension to enhance the strength of
> the wheel. Now for the question, What do you think about lacing all the spokes on the drive side
> "head in"? I have read that this can reduce offset by as much as 50%. (Dave Thomas of Speed Dreams
uses
> a technique employing this.) Will it help with wheel strength or combined with the offset rim will
> this be too much? Chris

Chris, I vote for skipping the "all heads in on the drive side" idea. All the spokes would cross at
the same plane. Normally the pulling spoke have their heads out. When the spoke cross at different
planes they help each other from going slack under a localized load. If you are using Shimano or
Phil Wood hubs and Velocity rim with offset spoke bed, you will have a closely balance wheel. I
wouldn't mess with the "all heads in (elbows out) on the drive side". Check with Bluto on this as he
is a proponent. I would be interested in Jobst Brandt's response, if he would honor us with
it.

Dave Ornee, Western Springs, IL

 

dobr24-<< I am building a rear wheel 32 spoke double butted 14-15 gauge 3x cross drive and non drive
side and plan on using the new off center rim from Velocity.

<< Now for the question, What do you think about lacing all the spokes on the drive side "head in"?
I have read that this can reduce offset by as much as 50%.

How does it reduce offset by 50%??

<< Will it help with wheel strength or combined with the offset rim will this be too much?

A well built wheel with appropriate components will determine wheel strength...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

Upon further investigation into the idea of spoke in and spoke out lacing I realized that Dave
Thomas was using a 1x lacing technique which I am wayyyy to heavy a rider to use and feel safe. To
read his thoughts on lacing techniques please see the following or go to his website. I think I'll
stick with standard lacing.

Thanks for your replies, Chris

http://www.speeddream.com/speed_dream.php Another trick that reduces the effect of hub offset up to
50% is the mixing of "heads in, race lace" and "heads out one cross" on drive and non-drive sides
respectively. Unfortunately, these techniques are too difficult to explain verbally so I think it's
time for me to say adios until next time. He further writes later,

"Velocity rims are light and pretty but these are no simple rolled down road rim. Wider than their
road model, they have a concave braking track to prevent pad dive. They also build easily, being
manufactured to a high quality standard (and I love all those color options).

Ritchey Logic 15 gauge butted spokes are used on front and non-drive rear in a one cross, heads out
pattern. Made by DT, these spokes are 25% lighter than standard 15 ga butted spokes owing to the
longer thinner center sections. At 4 grams per spoke, they are only 1/4 gram heavier each than
titanium spokes. Gold colored alloy nipples come standard with them. Standard 15 ga DT spokes are
used on the drive side rear, in a special 4 cross, heads in pattern which leaves them together a bit
near the hub. Although still light, somewhat heavier spokes are necessary for greater tension
requirements of the drive side due to "wheel dish" or offset.

Since nonstandard spoke patterns require nonstandard spoke lengths, why go to all the bother? If you
noticed, I mentioned "heads out" or "heads in" on the patterns. This means all the spokes are on the
same side of each hub flange, which offers more uniform spoke tension. A standard 3 cross, which
alternates spokes on both sides of the hub flange, means that outer spokes have a 5mm greater width
to pull from, than inner spokes.

In the case of the drive side, the outer spokes could be 25% looser than inner spokes and will give
a mushier ride. Add that to the fact that fixing heads in and heads out on the rear wheel takes
about one third of the wheel dish away and you'll have a dramatically stiffer and stronger tear
wheel! This is also true on front wheels with one cross heads out spoking. More even tension and
more direct loading of spokes makes a stronger and stiffer wheel. There's also less stress on spoke
elbows because they don't have to bend as much at the hub. One cross is used instead of straight
radial spoking to be less destructive to the hub flange. (Many manufacturers void the warranty with
radial~ spoking.) Too much stiffness is avoided by using the superlight spokes which are more
elastic but you can really feel the extra response! Of course, in order to have all those advantages
the wheel must be built in a skilled fashion by an expert. The lighter the wheel, the more important
this aspect is."

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> dobr24-<< I am building a rear wheel 32 spoke double butted 14-15 gauge 3x cross drive and non
> drive side and plan on using the new off center rim from Velocity.
>
> << Now for the question, What do you think about lacing all the spokes on the drive side "head
> in"? I have read that this can reduce offset by as much as 50%.
>
> How does it reduce offset by 50%??
>
>
> << Will it help with wheel strength or combined with the offset rim will this be too much?
>
> A well built wheel with appropriate components will determine wheel
strength...
>
>
> Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
> (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"