Spoke replacement questions

[Dukes909]

So, in trying to true my wheel I ended up stripping the brass nipple.
Resorting to my "dumb brute" method, the only thing I can think to do is cut
the spoke and replace said spoke and nipple with new ones (I tried wrenching
it off with pliers w/o success).

Question 1: this is a wheen from circa 1992, 2 mm in width, seems to be SS.
Can I replace just one spoke, or should I replace them all at one time? The
other spokes are fine.
Question 2: if ordering new spokes, when I measure the existing spoke, do I
include the little bend where it attaches to the hub as part of the length?

Cheers!
Duke

 

[[email protected]]

Duke S? writes:

> So, in trying to true my wheel I ended up stripping the brass
> nipple. Resorting to my "dumb brute" method, the only thing I can
> think to do is cut the spoke and replace said spoke and nipple with
> new ones (I tried wrenching it off with pliers w/o success).

You must have some brutal thread locking compound in that wheel or
your pliers aren't any good. I guess that's a testimonial why not to
use thread lock and instead, properly tension a wheel... with enough
spokes to carry the intended load.

> Question 1: this is a wheel from circa 1992, 2 mm in width, seems to
> be SS. Can I replace just one spoke, or should I replace them all
> at one time? The other spokes are fine.

Well, that spoke ought to be fine too, but how did it happen to be
welded to the brass? If a bit of heat from a soldering iron doesn't
loosen it, then you have an unusual condition.

> Question 2: if ordering new spokes, when I measure the existing
> spoke, do I include the little bend where it attaches to the hub as
> part of the length?

The length of spokes is measured from the inside of the elbow to its
threaded end as if it were hanging from the end of a steel rule (a
spoke ruler).

Jobst Brandt

 

[[email protected]]

a soldering iron! ok. one for the home team. i have an iron for the
torch!

i had inumerable problems when not using a spokey. A.S., a thousand
fewer problems.

several wheels wiser, i replace nipples when worn, replace the drive
side spokes every 4000 miles, replace spokes-DT!! not generic- showing
surface stress cracks inside the bend (or anywhere), and lube nipple
seat and hub hole/bend with finish line wax with teflon. and am much
happier wioth the rear wheel performance-more work equals much less
work.

 

[Andrew Lee]

<[email protected]> wrote:
> Duke S? writes:
>
>> So, in trying to true my wheel I ended up stripping the brass
>> nipple. Resorting to my "dumb brute" method, the only thing I can
>> think to do is cut the spoke and replace said spoke and nipple with
>> new ones (I tried wrenching it off with pliers w/o success).
>
> You must have some brutal thread locking compound in that wheel or
> your pliers aren't any good. I guess that's a testimonial why not to
> use thread lock and instead, properly tension a wheel... with enough
> spokes to carry the intended load.

It's also possible that the nipple seat was not oiled and the nipple is
binding on the rim. I rounded off a few brass nipples trying to true a
wheel that way (a long time ago before I knew better). The rim was a
socketless eyeletless design (Matrix Iso C).

 

[Paul Kopit]

On 21 Nov 2005 13:15:57 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

>several wheels wiser, i replace nipples when worn, replace the drive
>side spokes every 4000 miles, replace spokes-DT!! not generic- showing
>surface stress cracks inside the bend (or anywhere), and lube nipple
>seat and hub hole/bend with finish line wax with teflon. and am much
>happier wioth the rear wheel performance-more work equals much less
>work.

I don't do any of that replacement stuff and my wheels last a long
time. I can't say I've worn wheelsets out. Usually I hit holes and
crash before the rims wear through. I reuse nipples all the time and
spokes frequently... always when re-rimming. When I'm building, I
use linseed oil on the threads of the spokes and grease the shoulder
of the nipples. A Spokey holds the nipple on 3 sides and doesn't seem
to even mark the nipple. I find no difference in longevity using
butted or straight spokes and have had good luck with DT, Hoshi and
Wheelsmith spokes.

 

[[email protected]]

Andrew Lee writes:

>>> So, in trying to true my wheel I ended up stripping the brass
>>> nipple. Resorting to my "dumb brute" method, the only thing I can
>>> think to do is cut the spoke and replace said spoke and nipple
>>> with new ones (I tried wrenching it off with pliers w/o success).

>> You must have some brutal thread locking compound in that wheel or
>> your pliers aren't any good. I guess that's a testimonial why not
>> to use thread lock and instead, properly tension a wheel... with
>> enough spokes to carry the intended load.

> It's also possible that the nipple seat was not oiled and the nipple
> is binding on the rim. I rounded off a few brass nipples trying to
> true a wheel that way (a long time ago before I knew better). The
> rim was a socketless eyeletless design (Matrix Iso C).

I guess with today's fashion rims, many don't leave much spoke nipple
showing so that extraction of a rounded spoke nipple with pliers
doesn't work. The who;e boutique wheel scene is a bust and many
riders aren't even aware that there once were functional rims and
wheels that were easily maintained.

Yes, it all began back in the days when Spoke Prep made its debut,
just about the time tied and soldered spokes went away. I think the
new plague is worse than the old.

Jobst Brandt

 

[[email protected]]

Paul Kopit writes:

>> several wheels wiser, i replace nipples when worn, replace the
>> drive side spokes every 4000 miles, replace spokes-DT!! not
>> generic- showing surface stress cracks inside the bend (or
>> anywhere), and lube nipple seat and hub hole/bend with finish line
>> wax with Teflon. and am much happier with the rear wheel
>> performance-more work equals much less work.

> I don't do any of that replacement stuff and my wheels last a long
> time. I can't say I've worn wheelsets out. Usually I hit holes and
> crash before the rims wear through. I reuse nipples all the time
> and spokes frequently... always when re-rimming.

As I mentioned, I have wheels whose spokes have well over 200,000
miles in the service of many worn out rims. At times I need to
replace a spoke nipple or two when changing rims. Linseed oil might
seal spoke threads better against fine sand intrusion but it isn't
useful otherwise.

> When I'm building, I use linseed oil on the threads of the spokes
> and grease the shoulder of the nipples. A Spokey holds the nipple
> on 3 sides and doesn't seem to even mark the nipple. I find no
> difference in longevity using butted or straight spokes and have had
> good luck with DT, Hoshi and Wheelsmith spokes.

That's also belt and suspenders. A hardened steel slotted spoke
wrench that engages two faces is enough to twist off spokes. Rounded
spoke nipples are caused by rim friction; no lubrication between rim
and spoke nipple. A three sided wrench does no more than two sided
one when turning a square nut. The only thing a wrench that catches
four corners does is require axial engagement that is unnecessarily
tedious. A slotted spoke wrench can be easily and rapidly engaged
from the side of spoke nipples the way one would do with an open end
wrench on a hex nut.

Jobst Brandt

 

[jim beam]

Dukes909 wrote:
> So, in trying to true my wheel I ended up stripping the brass nipple.
> Resorting to my "dumb brute" method, the only thing I can think to do is cut
> the spoke and replace said spoke and nipple with new ones (I tried wrenching
> it off with pliers w/o success).

it's not unknown. particularly if the spokes have been re-tensioned a
few times and the threads have galled. that + moisture = differential
corrosion and the threads will sieze. you can also get fine grit in the
threads which can lock them quite effectively too if there's nothing
like oil or grease or threadlock keeping the grit out.

>
> Question 1: this is a wheen from circa 1992, 2 mm in width, seems to be SS.
> Can I replace just one spoke, or should I replace them all at one time? The
> other spokes are fine.

just 1 is ok.

> Question 2: if ordering new spokes, when I measure the existing spoke, do I
> include the little bend where it attaches to the hub as part of the length?

no - measure from the inside to the tip of the thread.

>
> Cheers!
> Duke
>
>

 

[Dukes909]

"jim beam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> Question 1: this is a wheen from circa 1992, 2 mm in width, seems to be
>> SS. Can I replace just one spoke, or should I replace them all at one
>> time? The other spokes are fine.
>
> just 1 is ok.
>
>> Question 2: if ordering new spokes, when I measure the existing spoke, do
>> I include the little bend where it attaches to the hub as part of the
>> length?
>
> no - measure from the inside to the tip of the thread.
>

Hooray! Real answers to both!

Cheers!
Duke

 

[[email protected]]

Why replace the spoke?

Take off the rim tape, and a straight screwdriver in the nipple end
should remove it. Then put on a new nipple, tension, and replace the
rim tape. You're done.

 

[Werehatrack]

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:17:04 -0600, "Dukes909"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>So, in trying to true my wheel I ended up stripping the brass nipple.
>Resorting to my "dumb brute" method, the only thing I can think to do is cut
>the spoke and replace said spoke and nipple with new ones (I tried wrenching
>it off with pliers w/o success).
>
>Question 1: this is a wheen from circa 1992, 2 mm in width, seems to be SS.
>Can I replace just one spoke, or should I replace them all at one time? The
>other spokes are fine.

Replace just one, IMO.

>Question 2: if ordering new spokes, when I measure the existing spoke, do I
>include the little bend where it attaches to the hub as part of the length?

If buying locally, just take a sample spoke along. Otherwise, from
the center of the bent leg to the tip of the thread is my
understanding of the length measurement. A tiny bit of oil on the
threads may prevent the new one from siezing up.


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