RonSonic said:
Quoted message said:If you do not stretch the strings while tuning up a new set, tuning will NOT be
stable until time and playing stresses do the job for you.
I would say with proper tying/winding at the beginning (especially for the lower
guages), and the noted "stretching to seat," a very high fraction of instability
is taken out right at the outset. Setting and "improving string line" seem
essential.
Quoted message said:The string will wear out before it completely settles in.
"Half-round" and flat-wound have extraordinary lifetimes. Any detuning won't be
caused from "settling" -- that will be long past before the strings require
retiring. I think some detuning is just due to suboptimal hardware and bad
winds. For example, I have a Steinberger TransTrem double ball system. As a
highly precise system, its loss of tune is extremely slow.
Given the precision of the TransTrem system, I have very serious doubts that
guitar strings physically stretch in any significant amount, because the system
would seem to depend on stability there. Of course, I could be wrong.
Quoted message said:On a guitar the mechanism is pretty well defined. Yes, metal stretches and is
work hardened. I know how hard I work a guitar string to settle it in and I
doubt the wheel builders are applying that much force relative to the spoke
gauge, but I'm sure it's a factor. Also all of the attachment points are
imperfect, the wrap at the tuning post and the knotting of the string at the
ball end all need to be seated in and a temporary increase in tension does that
nicely. I'll suggest both are a factor in a wheel build. Those nipples are not
perfectly seated on perfect surfaces, the bend in the spoke is obviously not
mated perfectly to the hub. I know that mashed little nub at the end is not
perfect and symmetrical and mated perfectly to the flange. There is unevenness
there that will ether be corrected in the build or it'll introduce problems
later.
I recall a discussion regarding how much "seating" into the hubs -- as a result
of stress relieving -- had to do with a loss of true. JB claimed it was quite
low once the tension was close to optimum. In any case, the claimed reason for
stress relieving on a bicycle wheel is not so much for maintaining true
("tune"😉, although it may help in a small amount. Either truing/tuning touchups
could be done later as "seating" takes place -- but that's not stress
relieving. I doubt the "improved spoke line" could ever be implemented by other
than stress relieving. The purpose and claim is to avoid spoke breakage.
The tuning/seating comparison between guitars and spokes may be valid. However,
the magnitudes of the effects are highly distinguished. We don't "stress
relieve" strings to avoid breakage anyway. Electric guitar players will be
bending them and causing that all along. The point is to take out almost all of
the needed seating and lining at the beginning. A poorly tied/wound e-string
will never stabilize. Meticulous intial winding/tying is the single most
important factor for reasonably stable tuning.
Quoted message said:I'm a guitar and amp mechanic, not a bike tech, but I'll put my money on the
spoke stretchers. I do know how steel wire behaves under tension and it tells me
that prestressing during a build and tensioning makes sense.
It sure doesn't hurt. A lot of anecdotal evidence suggests the theory is valid.
