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Spontaneous Spoke Failure

Started by Mike Rocket J Squirrel · · Last activity · 64 posts · 1,527 views

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Cycling Equipment
Published
20 August 2006
Last activity
31 August 2006
Original author
Mike Rocket J Squirrel
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64
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  1. Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:
    Quoted message said:
    Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

    [email hidden] wrote:
    > On 20 Aug 2006 18:45:03 -0700, "Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Phil Lee, Squid wrote:
    >>> There was a bad batch of spokes supplied by a Chinese wire manufacturer
    >>> about 5 months ago, I believe. Many bikes were affected, and there were
    >>> some casualties.
    >> It started with bikes sold at least 2 years ago. I had a bunch of
    >> spokes snap in the middle when the bike (MTB) was parked for several
    >> weeks.
    > Dear Ron,
    >
    > Here's a post with links to one batch of bad spokes:
    >
    > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/a4f64c2d02149740
    >
    > There are undoubtedly others.
    Okay, entirely possible. I bought the bike for her birthday, which is in
    June, and I can't recall if it was 2004 or 2005. The article says the
    spokes break in the middle, like yours, but even though hers broke at
    the nipple -- no comments, she's my wife -- a faulty spoke could break
    anywhere along its length, I bet.

    I think I better just replace 'em all. Don't want her to have an
    accident because I didn't take care of her bike.

    -- mike elliott

    Dear Mike,

    Just to clarify, it was Phil who had spokes break in the middle.

    Oops, sorry. Didn't mean to put Phil's words into your mount. Say --
    didn't Phil used to be a Squid in training? When did he achieve full
    squidliness?

    -- mike elliott

    Dear Mike,

    Sometime around the 4th of July:

    Squid:
    http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/ef8dd7a8d22ffc38

    Squid-in-training:
    http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/f3450cf29760e2a1

    The holidays are hard on all of us.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  2. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Wheels by BFWG said:


    "Mike Rocket J Squirrel" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Wheels by BFWG wrote:
    > "Mike Rocket J Squirrel" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    > message news:[email hidden]...
    >> So I'm moving our bikes from the garage to a new covered storage area
    >> I
    >> built next to our house, and I notice that my wife's second-favorite
    >> bike, an entry-level Specialized road bike, isn't rolling worth a
    >> darn.
    >> The rear wheel is rubbing on the brake pads so badly it won't turn. I
    >> popped the bike on the workstand and tried turning the rear wheel, and
    >> the wheel is bent like a potato chip. I think back . . . did I at some
    >> time in the past, run into her rear wheel with my car or anything?
    >> But,
    >> no, nothing comes to mind. Then I notice that one of the spokes is
    >> broken right at the nipple. The wheel is whatever came with the
    >> bike --
    >> Alexrims AT400. I reckon that sometime, when no one was around, the
    >> spoke just went "P-twang!" and broke. I've had spokes break while
    >> riding, but never like this. So, is this an odd event?
    >>
    >> -- mike elliott
    >
    > Did you ever transport the bike on a trunk-mounted rack? I've seen
    > lots
    > of "mystery" rear wheel tweaks that are the result of driveways entered
    > or exited with bikes slung low on a trunk-mounted rack. . .

    Hmmm . . . I can't remember the details of the last trip with that bike.
    There might have been a vehicle rack involved, but it would have either
    been the rack on the back of my VW bus, or the strap-on trunk rack which
    we use on our sedan, and they both sit pretty high. And while it's not
    impossible that I banged the bike, I would have noticed a wheel bent
    this
    badly when I rolled the bike into the garage (we don't actually use our
    garage for /cars/) because the wheel is so deformed it can't turn while
    on
    the bike. I'm still leaning toward the haunting theory.

    -- mike elliott

    I've heard that Elvis hated bikes. . .

    Dear Wheels,

    "The year is 1946 in Tupelo Mississippi and Elvis is 11 years old. His
    parents can't afford a bicycle that Elvis wants, so his mother Gladys
    talks him into accepting a guitar instead. Elvis' first guitar costs
    $12.95 and is purchased at the Tupelo Hardware company. Elvis's
    bicycle would have to wait until Christmas 1947. Do you suppose that
    if the Christmas presents had been reversed Elvis might have been a
    Tour de France winner and Lance Armstrong would have been the King of
    Rock and Roll?"

    http://www.earthspirits.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=elvis-bike-blue&Category_Code=&Store_Code=abs
    or http://tinyurl.com/fmmae

    Note the "Classy Twisted Spokes" on the "officially licensed" bicycle.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    Do you suppose Lance might have shat himself to death while on the throne if
    that reversal had occurred?

  3. Quoted message said:
    Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:
    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:43:26 -0700, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    > [email hidden] wrote:
    >> On 20 Aug 2006 18:45:03 -0700, "Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Phil Lee, Squid wrote:
    >>>> There was a bad batch of spokes supplied by a Chinese wire manufacturer
    >>>> about 5 months ago, I believe. Many bikes were affected, and there were
    >>>> some casualties.
    >>> It started with bikes sold at least 2 years ago. I had a bunch of
    >>> spokes snap in the middle when the bike (MTB) was parked for several
    >>> weeks.
    >> Dear Ron,
    >>
    >> Here's a post with links to one batch of bad spokes:
    >>
    >> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/a4f64c2d02149740
    >>
    >> There are undoubtedly others.
    > Okay, entirely possible. I bought the bike for her birthday, which is in
    > June, and I can't recall if it was 2004 or 2005. The article says the
    > spokes break in the middle, like yours, but even though hers broke at
    > the nipple -- no comments, she's my wife -- a faulty spoke could break
    > anywhere along its length, I bet.
    >
    > I think I better just replace 'em all. Don't want her to have an
    > accident because I didn't take care of her bike.
    >
    > -- mike elliott
    Dear Mike,

    Just to clarify, it was Phil who had spokes break in the middle.


    Oops, sorry. Didn't mean to put Phil's words into your mount. Say --
    didn't Phil used to be a Squid in training? When did he achieve full
    squidliness?

    -- mike elliott

    Dear Mike,

    Sometime around the 4th of July:

    I didn't know he passed his finals.

    Nobody tells me anything.

    -- mike elliott

  4. Wheels by BFWG said:

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Wheels by BFWG said:

    "Mike Rocket J Squirrel" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message
    news:[email hidden]...

    >Wheels by BFWG wrote:
    >
    >>"Mike Rocket J Squirrel" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    >>message news:[email hidden]...
    >>
    >>>So I'm moving our bikes from the garage to a new covered storage area
    >>>I
    >>>built next to our house, and I notice that my wife's second-favorite
    >>>bike, an entry-level Specialized road bike, isn't rolling worth a
    >>>darn.
    >>>The rear wheel is rubbing on the brake pads so badly it won't turn. I
    >>>popped the bike on the workstand and tried turning the rear wheel, and
    >>>the wheel is bent like a potato chip. I think back . . . did I at some
    >>>time in the past, run into her rear wheel with my car or anything?
    >>>But,
    >>>no, nothing comes to mind. Then I notice that one of the spokes is
    >>>broken right at the nipple. The wheel is whatever came with the
    >>>bike --
    >>>Alexrims AT400. I reckon that sometime, when no one was around, the
    >>>spoke just went "P-twang!" and broke. I've had spokes break while
    >>>riding, but never like this. So, is this an odd event?
    >>>
    >>>-- mike elliott
    >>
    >>Did you ever transport the bike on a trunk-mounted rack? I've seen
    >>lots
    >>of "mystery" rear wheel tweaks that are the result of driveways entered
    >>or exited with bikes slung low on a trunk-mounted rack. . .
    >
    >Hmmm . . . I can't remember the details of the last trip with that bike.
    >There might have been a vehicle rack involved, but it would have either
    >been the rack on the back of my VW bus, or the strap-on trunk rack which
    >we use on our sedan, and they both sit pretty high. And while it's not
    >impossible that I banged the bike, I would have noticed a wheel bent
    >this
    >badly when I rolled the bike into the garage (we don't actually use our
    >garage for /cars/) because the wheel is so deformed it can't turn while
    >on
    >the bike. I'm still leaning toward the haunting theory.
    >
    >-- mike elliott

    I've heard that Elvis hated bikes. . .

    Dear Wheels,

    "The year is 1946 in Tupelo Mississippi and Elvis is 11 years old. His
    parents can't afford a bicycle that Elvis wants, so his mother Gladys
    talks him into accepting a guitar instead. Elvis' first guitar costs
    $12.95 and is purchased at the Tupelo Hardware company. Elvis's
    bicycle would have to wait until Christmas 1947. Do you suppose that
    if the Christmas presents had been reversed Elvis might have been a
    Tour de France winner and Lance Armstrong would have been the King of
    Rock and Roll?"

    http://www.earthspirits.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=elvis-bike-blue&Category_Code=&Store_Code=abs
    or http://tinyurl.com/fmmae

    Note the "Classy Twisted Spokes" on the "officially licensed" bicycle.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    Do you suppose Lance might have shat himself to death while on the throne if
    that reversal had occurred?

    I can't imagine a bloated Lance in a white sparkling suit.

    Friday

  5. Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:
    Quoted message said:
    Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

    [email hidden] wrote:
    > On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:43:26 -0700, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
    > <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >> [email hidden] wrote:
    >>> On 20 Aug 2006 18:45:03 -0700, "Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Phil Lee, Squid wrote:
    >>>>> There was a bad batch of spokes supplied by a Chinese wire manufacturer
    >>>>> about 5 months ago, I believe. Many bikes were affected, and there were
    >>>>> some casualties.
    >>>> It started with bikes sold at least 2 years ago. I had a bunch of
    >>>> spokes snap in the middle when the bike (MTB) was parked for several
    >>>> weeks.
    >>> Dear Ron,
    >>>
    >>> Here's a post with links to one batch of bad spokes:
    >>>
    >>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/a4f64c2d02149740
    >>>
    >>> There are undoubtedly others.
    >> Okay, entirely possible. I bought the bike for her birthday, which is in
    >> June, and I can't recall if it was 2004 or 2005. The article says the
    >> spokes break in the middle, like yours, but even though hers broke at
    >> the nipple -- no comments, she's my wife -- a faulty spoke could break
    >> anywhere along its length, I bet.
    >>
    >> I think I better just replace 'em all. Don't want her to have an
    >> accident because I didn't take care of her bike.
    >>
    >> -- mike elliott
    > Dear Mike,
    >
    > Just to clarify, it was Phil who had spokes break in the middle.
    Oops, sorry. Didn't mean to put Phil's words into your mount. Say --
    didn't Phil used to be a Squid in training? When did he achieve full
    squidliness?

    -- mike elliott

    Dear Mike,

    Sometime around the 4th of July:

    I didn't know he passed his finals.

    Nobody tells me anything.

    -- mike elliott

    Dear Mike,

    A modest celebration was held, with Pete Benchley, Julie Verne, and
    good old Herman reading from their natural histories. Herman's
    observations follow.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    CHAPTER 59

    Squid.

    Slowly wading through the meadows of brit, the Pequod still held on
    her way north-eastward towards the island of Java; a gentle air
    impelling her keel, so that in the surrounding serenity her three
    tall tapering masts mildly waved to that languid breeze, as three
    mild palms on a plain. And still, at wide intervals in the silvery
    night, the lonely, alluring jet would be seen.

    But one transparent blue morning, when a stillness almost
    preternatural spread over the sea, however unattended with any
    stagnant calm; when the long burnished sun-glade on the waters seemed
    a golden finger laid across them, enjoining some secrecy; when the
    slippered waves whispered together as they softly ran on; in this
    profound hush of the visible sphere a strange spectre was seen by
    Daggoo from the main-mast-head.

    In the distance, a great white mass lazily rose, and rising higher
    and higher, and disentangling itself from the azure, at last gleamed
    before our prow like a snow-slide, new slid from the hills. Thus
    glistening for a moment, as slowly it subsided, and sank. Then once
    more arose, and silently gleamed. It seemed not a whale; and yet is
    this Moby [censored]? thought Daggoo. Again the phantom went down, but on
    re-appearing once more, with a stiletto-like cry that startled every
    man from his nod, the negro yelled out--"There! there again! there
    she breaches! right ahead! The White Whale, the White Whale!"

    Upon this, the seamen rushed to the yard-arms, as in swarming-time
    the bees rush to the boughs. Bare-headed in the sultry sun, Ahab
    stood on the bowsprit, and with one hand pushed far behind in
    readiness to wave his orders to the helmsman, cast his eager glance
    in the direction indicated aloft by the outstretched motionless arm
    of Daggoo.

    Whether the flitting attendance of the one still and solitary jet had
    gradually worked upon Ahab, so that he was now prepared to connect
    the ideas of mildness and repose with the first sight of the
    particular whale he pursued; however this was, or whether his
    eagerness betrayed him; whichever way it might have been, no sooner
    did he distinctly perceive the white mass, than with a quick
    intensity he instantly gave orders for lowering.

    The four boats were soon on the water; Ahab's in advance, and all
    swiftly pulling towards their prey. Soon it went down, and while,
    with oars suspended, we were awaiting its reappearance, lo! in the
    same spot where it sank, once more it slowly rose. Almost forgetting
    for the moment all thoughts of Moby [censored], we now gazed at the most
    wondrous phenomenon which the secret seas have hitherto revealed to
    mankind. A vast pulpy mass, furlongs in length and breadth, of a
    glancing cream-colour, lay floating on the water, innumerable long
    arms radiating from its centre, and curling and twisting like a nest
    of anacondas, as if blindly to clutch at any hapless object within
    reach. No perceptible face or front did it have; no conceivable
    token of either sensation or instinct; but undulated there on the
    billows, an unearthly, formless, chance-like apparition of life.

    As with a low sucking sound it slowly disappeared again, Starbuck
    still gazing at the agitated waters where it had sunk, with a wild
    voice exclaimed--"Almost rather had I seen Moby [censored] and fought him,
    than to have seen thee, thou white ghost!"

    "What was it, Sir?" said Flask.

    "The great live squid, which, they say, few whale-ships ever beheld,
    and returned to their ports to tell of it."

    But Ahab said nothing; turning his boat, he sailed back to the
    vessel; the rest as silently following.

    Whatever superstitions the sperm whalemen in general have connected
    with the sight of this object, certain it is, that a glimpse of it
    being so very unusual, that circumstance has gone far to invest it
    with portentousness. So rarely is it beheld, that though one and all
    of them declare it to be the largest animated thing in the ocean, yet
    very few of them have any but the most vague ideas concerning its
    true nature and form; notwithstanding, they believe it to furnish to
    the sperm whale his only food. For though other species of whales
    find their food above water, and may be seen by man in the act of
    feeding, the spermaceti whale obtains his whole food in unknown zones
    below the surface; and only by inference is it that any one can tell
    of what, precisely, that food consists. At times, when closely
    pursued, he will disgorge what are supposed to be the detached arms
    of the squid; some of them thus exhibited exceeding twenty and thirty
    feet in length. They fancy that the monster to which these arms
    belonged ordinarily clings by them to the bed of the ocean; and that
    the sperm whale, unlike other species, is supplied with teeth in
    order to attack and tear it.

    There seems some ground to imagine that the great Kraken of Bishop
    Pontoppodan may ultimately resolve itself into Squid. The manner in
    which the Bishop describes it, as alternately rising and sinking,
    with some other particulars he narrates, in all this the two
    correspond. But much abatement is necessary with respect to the
    incredible bulk he assigns it.

    By some naturalists who have vaguely heard rumors of the mysterious
    creature, here spoken of, it is included among the class of
    cuttle-fish, to which, indeed, in certain external respects it would
    seem to belong, but only as the Anak of the tribe.

  6. Quoted message said:


    Oh please stress-relieve me, or I'll let go!

    [Twang!]

    E.A. Presley, Jr.

    You ain't nothin' but a Huffy
    Rustin' all the time.
    You ain't nothin' but a Huffy
    Rustin' all the time.
    Oh, you ain't never caught a Peugeot,
    You ain't no bike of mine!

  7. Quoted message said:
    Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:
    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 20:05:50 -0700, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    > [email hidden] wrote:
    >> On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:43:26 -0700, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
    >> <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>
    >>> [email hidden] wrote:
    >>>> On 20 Aug 2006 18:45:03 -0700, "Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Phil Lee, Squid wrote:
    >>>>>> There was a bad batch of spokes supplied by a Chinese wire manufacturer
    >>>>>> about 5 months ago, I believe. Many bikes were affected, and there were
    >>>>>> some casualties.
    >>>>> It started with bikes sold at least 2 years ago. I had a bunch of
    >>>>> spokes snap in the middle when the bike (MTB) was parked for several
    >>>>> weeks.
    >>>> Dear Ron,
    >>>>
    >>>> Here's a post with links to one batch of bad spokes:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/a4f64c2d02149740
    >>>>
    >>>> There are undoubtedly others.
    >>> Okay, entirely possible. I bought the bike for her birthday, which is in
    >>> June, and I can't recall if it was 2004 or 2005. The article says the
    >>> spokes break in the middle, like yours, but even though hers broke at
    >>> the nipple -- no comments, she's my wife -- a faulty spoke could break
    >>> anywhere along its length, I bet.
    >>>
    >>> I think I better just replace 'em all. Don't want her to have an
    >>> accident because I didn't take care of her bike.
    >>>
    >>> -- mike elliott
    >> Dear Mike,
    >>
    >> Just to clarify, it was Phil who had spokes break in the middle.
    > Oops, sorry. Didn't mean to put Phil's words into your mount. Say --
    > didn't Phil used to be a Squid in training? When did he achieve full
    > squidliness?
    >
    > -- mike elliott
    Dear Mike,

    Sometime around the 4th of July:


    I didn't know he passed his finals.

    Nobody tells me anything.

    -- mike elliott

    Dear Mike,

    A modest celebration was held, with Pete Benchley, Julie Verne, and
    good old Herman reading from their natural histories. Herman's
    observations follow.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    CHAPTER 59

    Squid.

    Slowly wading through the meadows of brit, the Pequod still held on
    her way north-eastward towards the island of Java; a gentle air
    impelling her keel, so that in the surrounding serenity her three
    tall tapering masts mildly waved to that languid breeze, as three
    mild palms on a plain. And still, at wide intervals in the silvery
    night, the lonely, alluring jet would be seen.

    <2,000 words snipped>

    Herman's such a frickin' know-it-all. No one else can even get a word in
    edgewise. He doesn't even know as much as he thinks. I remember that he
    once claimed that whales were fish, not mammals. Anyway, I'm sorry I
    missed the event. Was Pete's Uncle Edith there?

    -- mike elliott

  8. Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:
    Quoted message said:
    Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

    [email hidden] wrote:
    > On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 20:05:50 -0700, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
    > <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >> [email hidden] wrote:
    >>> On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:43:26 -0700, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
    >>> <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> [email hidden] wrote:
    >>>>> On 20 Aug 2006 18:45:03 -0700, "Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]>
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Phil Lee, Squid wrote:
    >>>>>>> There was a bad batch of spokes supplied by a Chinese wire manufacturer
    >>>>>>> about 5 months ago, I believe. Many bikes were affected, and there were
    >>>>>>> some casualties.
    >>>>>> It started with bikes sold at least 2 years ago. I had a bunch of
    >>>>>> spokes snap in the middle when the bike (MTB) was parked for several
    >>>>>> weeks.
    >>>>> Dear Ron,
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Here's a post with links to one batch of bad spokes:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/a4f64c2d02149740
    >>>>>
    >>>>> There are undoubtedly others.
    >>>> Okay, entirely possible. I bought the bike for her birthday, which is in
    >>>> June, and I can't recall if it was 2004 or 2005. The article says the
    >>>> spokes break in the middle, like yours, but even though hers broke at
    >>>> the nipple -- no comments, she's my wife -- a faulty spoke could break
    >>>> anywhere along its length, I bet.
    >>>>
    >>>> I think I better just replace 'em all. Don't want her to have an
    >>>> accident because I didn't take care of her bike.
    >>>>
    >>>> -- mike elliott
    >>> Dear Mike,
    >>>
    >>> Just to clarify, it was Phil who had spokes break in the middle.
    >> Oops, sorry. Didn't mean to put Phil's words into your mount. Say --
    >> didn't Phil used to be a Squid in training? When did he achieve full
    >> squidliness?
    >>
    >> -- mike elliott
    > Dear Mike,
    >
    > Sometime around the 4th of July:
    I didn't know he passed his finals.

    Nobody tells me anything.

    -- mike elliott

    Dear Mike,

    A modest celebration was held, with Pete Benchley, Julie Verne, and
    good old Herman reading from their natural histories. Herman's
    observations follow.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    CHAPTER 59

    Squid.

    Slowly wading through the meadows of brit, the Pequod still held on
    her way north-eastward towards the island of Java; a gentle air
    impelling her keel, so that in the surrounding serenity her three
    tall tapering masts mildly waved to that languid breeze, as three
    mild palms on a plain. And still, at wide intervals in the silvery
    night, the lonely, alluring jet would be seen.

    <2,000 words snipped>

    Herman's such a frickin' know-it-all. No one else can even get a word in
    edgewise. He doesn't even know as much as he thinks. I remember that he
    once claimed that whales were fish, not mammals. Anyway, I'm sorry I
    missed the event. Was Pete's Uncle Edith there?

    -- mike elliott

    Dear Mike,

    No--in fact, Uncle Edith doesn't seem to be on the internet. Here's
    the closest thing that I could find:

    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/15851/15851-h/15851-h.htm

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  9. Mike Elliott said:

    So I'm moving our bikes from the garage to a new covered storage
    area I built next to our house, and I notice that my wife's
    second-favorite bike, an entry-level Specialized road bike, isn't
    rolling worth a darn. The rear wheel is rubbing on the brake pads
    so badly it won't turn. I popped the bike on the workstand and
    tried turning the rear wheel, and the wheel is bent like a potato
    chip. I think back... did I at some time in the past, run into her
    rear wheel with my car or anything? But, no, nothing comes to mind.
    Then I notice that one of the spokes is broken right at the nipple.
    The wheel is whatever came with the bike -- Alexrims AT400. I
    reckon that sometime, when no one was around, the spoke just went
    "P-twang!" and broke. I've had spokes break while riding, but never
    like this. So, is this an odd event?

    It can occur if the spoke was close to breaking when last used. I
    have had this happen and heard it while sitting nearby, several hours
    after I parked the bicycle in the house.

    Stress relieve the wheel after replacing the spoke and thereby make
    sure there aren't other spokes in a near failing condition.

    Jobst Brandt

  10. On 8/21/2006 11:00 AM said:
    Mike Elliott said:

    So I'm moving our bikes from the garage to a new covered storage
    area I built next to our house, and I notice that my wife's
    second-favorite bike, an entry-level Specialized road bike, isn't
    rolling worth a darn. The rear wheel is rubbing on the brake pads
    so badly it won't turn. I popped the bike on the workstand and
    tried turning the rear wheel, and the wheel is bent like a potato
    chip. I think back... did I at some time in the past, run into her
    rear wheel with my car or anything? But, no, nothing comes to mind.
    Then I notice that one of the spokes is broken right at the nipple.
    The wheel is whatever came with the bike -- Alexrims AT400. I
    reckon that sometime, when no one was around, the spoke just went
    "P-twang!" and broke. I've had spokes break while riding, but never
    like this. So, is this an odd event?

    It can occur if the spoke was close to breaking when last used. I
    have had this happen and heard it while sitting nearby, several hours
    after I parked the bicycle in the house.

    I'll be darned. So -- was it a quiet "snap," or a more energetic event?

    -- mike elliott

  11. "Mike Rocket J Squirrel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    So I'm moving our bikes from the garage to a new covered storage area I
    built next to our house, and I notice that my wife's second-favorite
    bike, an entry-level Specialized road bike, isn't rolling worth a darn.
    The rear wheel is rubbing on the brake pads so badly it won't turn. I
    popped the bike on the workstand and tried turning the rear wheel, and
    the wheel is bent like a potato chip. I think back . . . did I at some
    time in the past, run into her rear wheel with my car or anything? But,
    no, nothing comes to mind. Then I notice that one of the spokes is
    broken right at the nipple. The wheel is whatever came with the bike --
    Alexrims AT400. I reckon that sometime, when no one was around, the
    spoke just went "P-twang!" and broke. I've had spokes break while
    riding, but never like this. So, is this an odd event?

    -- mike elliott

    It happed to me once when I was sitting on a park bench. After about 15
    minutes in the Sun, I heard the spoke break. It was the beginning of the end
    for that wheel, even though it was still pretty new. I reason that the wheel
    was so poorly built initially, that it was destined to self-destruct in
    short time. The LBS reasoned it was all just another "just riding along"
    story.

    Soon after that I purchased the book, a truing stand, some new parts, and
    learned how to build my own wheels. End of problems.

    mC

  12. Mike Elliott said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    So I'm moving our bikes from the garage to a new covered storage
    area I built next to our house, and I notice that my wife's
    second-favorite bike, an entry-level Specialized road bike, isn't
    rolling worth a darn. The rear wheel is rubbing on the brake pads
    so badly it won't turn. I popped the bike on the work stand and
    tried turning the rear wheel, and the wheel is bent like a potato
    chip. I think back... did I at some time in the past, run into
    her rear wheel with my car or anything? But, no, nothing comes to
    mind. Then I notice that one of the spokes is broken right at the
    nipple. The wheel is whatever came with the bike -- Alex rims
    AT400. I reckon that sometime, when no one was around, the spoke
    just went "P-twang!" and broke. I've had spokes break while
    riding, but never like this. So, is this an odd event?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It can occur if the spoke was close to breaking when last used. I
    have had this happen and heard it while sitting nearby, several
    hours after I parked the bicycle in the house.

    Quoted message said:

    I'll be darned. So -- was it a quiet "snap," or a more energetic
    event?

    It sounded much like the sound made when a spoke breaks while riding.
    Being a 36-spoke wheel, it went out of true slightly enough that I had
    to spin the wheel to find the location. I suppose I could have given
    it an inspection from the side to see which spoke didn't line up
    correctly. I don't recall which end broke. It seems to me that this
    occurred more than once with Robergel spokes, the best stainless
    spokes of that era.

    The kind of spoke doesn't make any difference, it is the creeping
    crack in steel that is the phenomenon and can occur in a malleable
    material. As has been mentioned here often, spoke steel is cold
    formed so it fits the description of a malleable material.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleable

    Jobst Brandt

  13. On 21 Aug 2006 22:48:03 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    It seems to me that this
    occurred more than once with Robergel spokes, the best stainless
    spokes of that era.

    The kind of spoke doesn't make any difference . . .

    [snip]

    Dear Jobst,

    ?

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  14. Carl Fogel said:

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It seems to me that this
    occurred more than once with Robergel spokes, the best stainless
    spokes of that era.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The kind of spoke doesn't make any difference . . .

    Quoted message said:

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    Dear Jobst,

    Quoted message said:

    ?

    It has no effect on the ability to have a creeping failure once it has
    a crack that is close to separation.

    Therefore: >> The kind of spoke doesn't make any difference...

    Quoted message said:

    Cheers,

    You are trying hard to appear to not understand. Stop that!

    Maybe you can give a name for this kind of posting.

    Quoted message said:

    Carl Fogel

    Jobst Brandt

  15. Quoted message said:
    Carl Fogel said:

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It seems to me that this
    occurred more than once with Robergel spokes, the best stainless
    spokes of that era.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The kind of spoke doesn't make any difference . . .

    Quoted message said:

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:

    Dear Jobst,

    Quoted message said:

    ?

    It has no effect on the ability to have a creeping failure once it has
    a crack that is close to separation.

    Therefore: >> The kind of spoke doesn't make any difference...

    Quoted message said:

    Cheers,

    You are trying hard to appear to not understand. Stop that!

    Maybe you can give a name for this kind of posting.

    Quoted message said:

    Carl Fogel

    Jobst Brandt

    Dear Jobst,

    You said in one breath that the best spokes are a particular brand.

    But in the next breath you said that the kind of spoke makes no
    difference.

    Stop that!

    I can give a name for that kind of post--it's self-contradictory.

    Instead of insisting that we read your mind, please explain why you
    feel that one brand of spoke was the best.

    Was Robergel the best spoke in that era because it broke less often
    than others?

    If so, then wasn't Robergel less prone to the "creeping" failure?

    If Robergel broke just as often as other brands, what made it the best
    spoke of that era?

    It's not hard at all to fail to understand what you say when you leave
    it out.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

  16. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Mike Elliott said:

    So I'm moving our bikes from the garage to a new covered storage
    area I built next to our house, and I notice that my wife's
    second-favorite bike, an entry-level Specialized road bike, isn't
    rolling worth a darn. The rear wheel is rubbing on the brake pads
    so badly it won't turn. I popped the bike on the workstand and
    tried turning the rear wheel, and the wheel is bent like a potato
    chip. I think back... did I at some time in the past, run into her
    rear wheel with my car or anything? But, no, nothing comes to mind.
    Then I notice that one of the spokes is broken right at the nipple.
    The wheel is whatever came with the bike -- Alexrims AT400. I
    reckon that sometime, when no one was around, the spoke just went
    "P-twang!" and broke. I've had spokes break while riding, but never
    like this. So, is this an odd event?

    It can occur if the spoke was close to breaking when last used. I
    have had this happen and heard it while sitting nearby, several hours
    after I parked the bicycle in the house.

    Stress relieve the wheel after replacing the spoke and thereby make
    sure there aren't other spokes in a near failing condition.

    Jobst Brandt

    Yes I have had a spoke pop like that after a commute to work, my bike is in
    my office at work, very quiet and "ping!" the little head popped off.
    That was on a store bought wheel too.

    Dear Jobst,
    it's nice to see you are back I think a lot of people were missing you
    around here.
    Any hair raising stories about screaming down the steep mountain roads?
    Thanks
    Earl

  17. aka Jobst Brandt said:
    Mike Elliott said:
    Quoted message said:

    > So I'm moving our bikes from the garage to a new covered storage
    > area I built next to our house, and I notice that my wife's
    > second-favorite bike, an entry-level Specialized road bike, isn't
    > rolling worth a darn. The rear wheel is rubbing on the brake pads
    > so badly it won't turn. I popped the bike on the work stand and
    > tried turning the rear wheel, and the wheel is bent like a potato
    > chip. I think back... did I at some time in the past, run into
    > her rear wheel with my car or anything? But, no, nothing comes to
    > mind. Then I notice that one of the spokes is broken right at the
    > nipple. The wheel is whatever came with the bike -- Alex rims
    > AT400. I reckon that sometime, when no one was around, the spoke
    > just went "P-twang!" and broke. I've had spokes break while
    > riding, but never like this. So, is this an odd event?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It can occur if the spoke was close to breaking when last used. I
    have had this happen and heard it while sitting nearby, several
    hours after I parked the bicycle in the house.

    Quoted message said:

    I'll be darned. So -- was it a quiet "snap," or a more energetic
    event?

    It sounded much like the sound made when a spoke breaks while riding.
    Being a 36-spoke wheel, it went out of true slightly enough that I had
    to spin the wheel to find the location. I suppose I could have given
    it an inspection from the side to see which spoke didn't line up
    correctly. I don't recall which end broke. It seems to me that this
    occurred more than once with Robergel spokes, the best stainless
    spokes of that era.

    The kind of spoke doesn't make any difference, it is the creeping
    crack in steel that is the phenomenon and can occur in a malleable
    material. As has been mentioned here often, spoke steel is cold
    formed so it fits the description of a malleable material....

    Was the fracture following fatigue cracking brittle with minimal
    reduction in cross-section area at the fracture point?

    The AISI 304 stainless steel [1] used for most quality spokes [2] is
    very ductile, and would be expected to show significant "necking" when
    stressed beyond yield.

    [1] <http://www.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MQ304A>.
    [2] DT Swiss, Sapim and Wheelsmith according to their websites.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain

  18. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Carl Fogel said:

    [snip]
    > It seems to me that this
    > occurred more than once with Robergel spokes, the best stainless
    > spokes of that era.
    > The kind of spoke doesn't make any difference . . .
    [snip]
    Dear Jobst,
    ?


    It has no effect on the ability to have a creeping failure once it has
    a crack that is close to separation.

    Therefore: >> The kind of spoke doesn't make any difference...

    Quoted message said:

    Cheers,


    You are trying hard to appear to not understand. Stop that!

    Maybe you can give a name for this kind of posting.

    Quoted message said:

    Carl Fogel

    Jobst Brandt

    Dear Jobst,

    You said in one breath that the best spokes are a particular brand.

    But in the next breath you said that the kind of spoke makes no
    difference.

    Stop that!

    I can give a name for that kind of post--it's self-contradictory.

    Instead of insisting that we read your mind, please explain why you
    feel that one brand of spoke was the best.

    Was Robergel the best spoke in that era because it broke less often
    than others?

    If so, then wasn't Robergel less prone to the "creeping" failure?

    If Robergel broke just as often as other brands, what made it the best
    spoke of that era?

    It's not hard at all to fail to understand what you say when you leave
    it out.

    Cheers,

    Carl Fogel

    the one that amuses me is this b.s. about "creeping" in steel at room
    temperature! clearly he has no idea what creep is.

  19. Carl Fogel said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > It seems to me that this
    > occurred more than once with Robergel spokes, the best stainless
    > spokes of that era.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > The kind of spoke doesn't make any difference . . .

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    [snip]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Dear Jobst,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It has no effect on the ability to have a creeping failure once it
    has a crack that is close to separation.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Therefore: >> The kind of spoke doesn't make any difference...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Cheers,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You are trying hard to appear to not understand. Stop that!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Maybe you can give a name for this kind of posting.

    Quoted message said:

    Dear Jobst,

    Quoted message said:

    You said in one breath that the best spokes are a particular brand.

    Quoted message said:

    But in the next breath you said that the kind of spoke makes no
    difference.

    Quoted message said:

    Stop that!

    Quoted message said:

    I can give a name for that kind of post--it's self-contradictory.

    I think you jump to conclusions. I said that Robergel spokes failed
    often but that the mode of static failure in question is independent
    of the type of spoke. I also did not say that better spokes do not
    have this failure mode because it occurs when a spoke is close to
    separation and the characteristic failure while idle is not dependent
    on spoke quality.

    Had Robergel spokes not had such frequent failures, I would probably
    not have had the experience more than once, as I recall, nor would I
    have noticed the marked reduction of failures after stress relieving
    these failure prone spokes.

    Quoted message said:

    Instead of insisting that we read your mind, please explain why you
    feel that one brand of spoke was the best.

    I don't believe this takes mind reading. You juxtsapose sentences
    from two different replies into "in the next breath". The original
    stated:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quoted message said:

    I'll be darned. So -- was it a quiet "snap," or a more energetic
    event?

    It sounded much like the sound made when a spoke breaks while riding.
    Being a 36-spoke wheel, it went out of true slightly enough that I had
    to spin the wheel to find the location. I suppose I could have given
    it an inspection from the side to see which spoke didn't line up
    correctly. I don't recall which end broke. It seems to me that this
    occurred more than once with Robergel spokes, the best stainless
    spokes of that era.

    The kind of spoke doesn't make any difference, it is the creeping
    crack in steel that is the phenomenon and can occur in a malleable
    material. As has been mentioned here often, spoke steel is cold
    formed so it fits the description of a malleable material.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleable
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quoted message said:

    Was Robergel the best spoke in that era because it broke less often
    than others?

    I don't know because they all broke more than the spokes we use
    today, Stella, Berg, Prym, Redaelli, and various American brands. I
    used Robergel because they used a finer thread 0.4mm pitch and had a
    better finish than Stella (56TPI = 0.4536mm pitch), the common brand
    for Italian bicycles at the time.

    Quoted message said:

    If so, then wasn't Robergel less prone to the "creeping" failure?

    No, and I don't see where you derive that from what I wrote.

    Quoted message said:

    If Robergel broke just as often as other brands, what made it the
    best spoke of that era?

    Quoted message said:

    It's not hard at all to fail to understand what you say when you
    leave it out.

    I think you are attributing linkages to the above text that aren't
    there. As I see it, I clearly state that a spoke that is close to
    failure can experience a creeping crack failure. Better spokes may
    have fewer occurrences of cracking but the failure mode is the same.
    Therefore, "The kind of spoke doesn't make any difference," in the
    failure being discussed.

    Jobst Brandt

  20. Quoted message said:
    Carl Fogel said:
    Quoted message said:

    > [snip]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> It seems to me that this
    >> occurred more than once with Robergel spokes, the best stainless
    >> spokes of that era.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> The kind of spoke doesn't make any difference . . .

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > [snip]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Dear Jobst,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > ?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It has no effect on the ability to have a creeping failure once it
    has a crack that is close to separation.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Therefore: >> The kind of spoke doesn't make any difference...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Cheers,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You are trying hard to appear to not understand. Stop that!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Maybe you can give a name for this kind of posting.

    Quoted message said:

    Dear Jobst,

    Quoted message said:

    You said in one breath that the best spokes are a particular brand.

    Quoted message said:

    But in the next breath you said that the kind of spoke makes no
    difference.

    Quoted message said:

    Stop that!

    Quoted message said:

    I can give a name for that kind of post--it's self-contradictory.

    I think you jump to conclusions. I said that Robergel spokes failed
    often but that the mode of static failure in question is independent
    of the type of spoke.

    that's not correct - it's absolutely a function of material.

    Quoted message said:

    I also did not say that better spokes do not
    have this failure mode because it occurs when a spoke is close to
    separation and the characteristic failure while idle is not dependent
    on spoke quality.

    again, that's not correct. different materials have different K1c
    values, what is being observed here.

    Quoted message said:


    Had Robergel spokes not had such frequent failures, I would probably
    not have had the experience more than once, as I recall, nor would I
    have noticed the marked reduction of failures after stress relieving
    these failure prone spokes.

    Quoted message said:

    Instead of insisting that we read your mind, please explain why you
    feel that one brand of spoke was the best.

    I don't believe this takes mind reading. You juxtsapose sentences
    from two different replies into "in the next breath". The original
    stated:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quoted message said:

    I'll be darned. So -- was it a quiet "snap," or a more energetic
    event?

    It sounded much like the sound made when a spoke breaks while riding.
    Being a 36-spoke wheel, it went out of true slightly enough that I had
    to spin the wheel to find the location. I suppose I could have given
    it an inspection from the side to see which spoke didn't line up
    correctly. I don't recall which end broke. It seems to me that this
    occurred more than once with Robergel spokes, the best stainless
    spokes of that era.

    what are your judgment criteria? they don't sound impressive based on
    their performance.

    Quoted message said:


    The kind of spoke doesn't make any difference, it is the creeping
    crack in steel that is the phenomenon and can occur in a malleable
    material. As has been mentioned here often, spoke steel is cold
    formed so it fits the description of a malleable material.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleable

    eh? that's the most bizarrely confused statement regarding properties
    of materials i've ever seen you make!!! no, whether or not a material
    is "malleable" [or ductile] has /nothing/ to do with creep. creep is a
    high temperature phenomenon, typically at about half that of the
    material's melting point.

    Quoted message said:

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quoted message said:

    Was Robergel the best spoke in that era because it broke less often
    than others?

    I don't know because they all broke more than the spokes we use
    today, Stella, Berg, Prym, Redaelli, and various American brands. I
    used Robergel because they used a finer thread 0.4mm pitch and had a
    better finish than Stella (56TPI = 0.4536mm pitch), the common brand
    for Italian bicycles at the time.

    Quoted message said:

    If so, then wasn't Robergel less prone to the "creeping" failure?

    No, and I don't see where you derive that from what I wrote.

    Quoted message said:

    If Robergel broke just as often as other brands, what made it the
    best spoke of that era?

    Quoted message said:

    It's not hard at all to fail to understand what you say when you
    leave it out.

    I think you are attributing linkages to the above text that aren't
    there. As I see it, I clearly state that a spoke that is close to
    failure can experience a creeping crack failure.

    not unless you have them in a furnace.

    Quoted message said:

    Better spokes may
    have fewer occurrences of cracking but the failure mode is the same.

    no, spokes don't creep. period. they fatigue and crack. fracture
    mechanics, remember?

    Quoted message said:

    Therefore, "The kind of spoke doesn't make any difference," in the
    failure being discussed.

    but it does. the material directly determines susceptibility to both
    fatigue /and/ fracture.

    with respect jobst, you really shouldn't lecture on subjects so
    absolutely outside of your knowledge sphere.

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