Sport Drink Suggestions

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by Joseph Spinelli, Feb 23, 2004.

  1. I am curious about hearing from this forum which sports drinks seem to perform better than others.
    Sport drinks being defines as "replenishers" or drinks to have before and during excerise... etc..
    like Gatorade etc. In my surface look at these drinks, most appear to be sugar water with artificial
    coloring. What "sport drinks" has this forum experimented or used with success ? thanks -joe
     
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  2. SwStudio

    SwStudio Guest

    "Joseph Spinelli" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > I am curious about hearing from this forum which sports drinks seem to perform better than others.
    > Sport drinks being defines as "replenishers" or drinks to have before and during excerise... etc..
    > like Gatorade etc.
    In
    > my surface look at these drinks, most appear to be sugar water with artificial coloring. What
    > "sport drinks" has this forum experimented or used with success ? thanks -joe

    You'll find this to be a personal issue, where there's certainly no "correct" answer.

    I do best with any of the corn syrup/regular sugar/maltodextrin-based meal-relacement drinks such as
    Boost or Ensure. To me, the difference is obvious. I drink it and 30 seconds later I can feel it,
    and I never bonk half an hour after the initial effect, like regular sugar water drinks such as
    Gatorade. Maybe it's the vitamins or the protein.... whatever it is, it works for me.

    cheers,
    --
    David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org
     
  3. Dot

    Dot Guest

    Joseph Spinelli wrote:
    > I am curious about hearing from this forum which sports drinks seem to perform better than
    > others. Sport drinks being defines as "replenishers" or drinks to have before and during
    > excerise... etc.. like Gatorade etc. In my surface look at these drinks, most appear to be sugar
    > water with artificial coloring. What "sport drinks" has this forum experimented or used with
    > success ? thanks -joe
    >

    As David already mentioned, different things work for different people and you'll need to
    experiment. The drinks that *I* use - after reading labels, reading about hydration, electrolytes,
    carbs (simple, complex), carb:protein ratios, etc, considering effort level and duration of workout,
    etc - include Ultra, Cytomax, or Clip while active then milk, Slimfast, Ensure, or Endurox for
    recovery. I've got some Accelerade to try while active sometime but haven't tested it yet.

    Some pages with products that aren't sugar water include http://www.ultrunr.com/!succeed.html
    http://www.cytosport.com/science/index.html http://www.e-
    caps.com/knowledge/index.cfm?template=techmanual&div=Technical%20Information
    http://www.endurox.com/r4.asp There's others out there also, I'm sure. NFI in any of them

    Drinks generally don't have sufficient electrolytes so electrolyte caps are used frequently.

    I started with gatorade since it was available in grocery store, and I was clueless about things
    that might be useful in a drink. It didn't seem to work as well as some of the others that I've
    tried since and had too strong a taste for me to use for very long.

    Dot

    --
    "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
     
  4. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    Dot wrote:

    > As David already mentioned, different things work for different people and you'll need to
    > experiment. The drinks that *I* use - after reading labels, reading about hydration, electrolytes,
    > carbs (simple, complex), carb:protein ratios, etc, considering effort level and duration of
    > workout, etc - include Ultra, Cytomax, or Clip while active then milk, Slimfast, Ensure, or
    > Endurox for recovery.

    What no beer? ;)

    > I've got some Accelerade to try while active sometime but haven't tested it yet.

    From a taste perspective I found Accelerade makes bamboo shavings and broken glass in an ammonia
    solution taste good. I hope you have better luck.

    --
    Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email protected]
     
  5. Dot

    Dot Guest

    Doug Freese wrote:
    >
    >
    > Dot wrote:
    >
    > > What no beer? ;)

    nah, don't like the smell (actually, I think it would make me throw up based on what happened when
    somebody thought it would be fun to spike the Christmas punch without telling others) Yep, we differ
    on something ;)

    >
    >> I've got some Accelerade to try while active sometime but haven't tested it yet.
    >
    >
    > From a taste perspective I found Accelerade makes bamboo shavings and broken glass in an ammonia
    > solution taste good. I hope you have better luck.
    >

    Given what Endurox tasted like - after I got over the gag response (I had a whole can to use, not a
    1-bottle envelope) - I'm waiting for an appropriate time to try the single envelope (I learned) of
    Acclerade. Aside from taste, I'm finding I prefer the taste of milk-like product for recovery
    although I did find a dilution factor that made the endurox ok. I've also heard that fruit punch,
    the ENdurox flavor I had, wasn't the best, but I haven't bothered trying anymore.

    Dot

    --
    "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
     
  6. Harold Buck

    Harold Buck Guest

    In article
    <[email protected]>,
    Dot <[email protected]#att.net> wrote:

    > Given what Endurox tasted like - after I got over the gag response (I had a whole can to use, not
    > a 1-bottle envelope) - I'm waiting for an appropriate time to try the single envelope (I learned)
    > of Acclerade. Aside from taste, I'm finding I prefer the taste of milk-like product for recovery
    > although I did find a dilution factor that made the endurox

    I tried Accelerade. It's not good, but I can drink it. However, I've heard that their claims about
    including protein in the drink mix having a huge effect on endurance have been discredited. Does
    anyone have details on this?

    --Harold Buck

    "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

    - Homer J. Simpson
     
  7. Dot

    Dot Guest

    Harold Buck wrote:

    >
    > I tried Accelerade. It's not good, but I can drink it. However, I've heard that their claims about
    > including protein in the drink mix having a huge effect on endurance have been discredited. Does
    > anyone have details on this?

    This is what I was getting at with my question to Sam in the REcovery food & drink thread. The only
    discredit I've seen is the conflict in funding sources / someone making a profit, which may or may
    not affect "results". That is, I haven't seen a counter study, although there may be - and what I
    was wondering if Sam had seen any.

    However, many drinks for long (multiple hr) runs contain protein and some have fat. Some of these
    were developed by reputable physiologists / ultrarunners.

    Dot

    --
    "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
     
  8. Sam

    Sam Guest

    "Harold Buck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Dot
    > <[email protected]#att.net> wrote:
    >
    > > Given what Endurox tasted like - after I got over the gag response (I had a whole can to use,
    > > not a 1-bottle envelope) - I'm waiting for an appropriate time to try the single envelope (I
    > > learned) of Acclerade. Aside from taste, I'm finding I prefer the taste of milk-like product for
    > > recovery although I did find a dilution factor that made the endurox
    >
    >
    > I tried Accelerade. It's not good, but I can drink it. However, I've heard that their claims about
    > including protein in the drink mix having a huge effect on endurance have been discredited. Does
    > anyone have details on this?
    >
    > --Harold Buck
    >
    >
    > "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."
    >
    > - Homer J. Simpson

    You can read Gatorade's take on it at www.gssiweb.com (if the article is still up). Protein provides
    on a small % of total energy for exercise and requires many, many steps to get to ATP (the
    "currency" of energy). The only study I have seen is an abstract from the U of Texas lab. My
    critique is that the performance measure is a weak one (not sure why exercise scientist colleagues
    cannot use real-life performance measures). There were also some methodological errors from what I
    remember of the abstract (not that the abstract tells you much).

    What the heck, here is the link to Gatorade's take and the research it quotes...
    http://www.gssiweb.com/reflib/refs/338/Protein_in_Sports_Drinks.cfm?pid=38

    Below is the abstract from PubMed...

    Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2003 Sep;13(3):382-95. Related Articles, Links

    Effect of a carbohydrate-protein supplement on endurance performance during exercise of varying
    intensity.

    Ivy JL, Res PT, Sprague RC, Widzer MO.

    Department of Kinesiology and Health Education, The University of Texas, Austin, TX 78712, USA.

    Increasing the plasma glucose and insulin concentrations during prolonged variable intensity
    exercise by supplementing with carbohydrate has been found to spare muscle glycogen and increase
    aerobic endurance. Furthermore, the addition of protein to a carbohydrate supplement will enhance
    the insulin response of a carbohydrate supplement. The purpose of the present study was to compare
    the effects of a carbohydrate and a carbohydrate-protein supplement on aerobic endurance
    performance. Nine trained cyclists exercised on 3 separate occasions at intensities that varied
    between 45% and 75% VO2max for 3 h and then at 85% VO2max until fatigued. Supplements (200 ml) were
    provided every 20 min and consisted of placebo, a 7.75% carbohydrate solution, and a 7.75%
    carbohydrate/1.94% protein solution. Treatments were administered using a double-blind randomized
    design. Carbohydrate supplementation significantly increased time to exhaustion (carbohydrate 19.7
    +/- 4.6 min vs. placebo 12.7 +/- 3.1 min), while the addition of protein enhanced the effect of the
    carbohydrate supplement (carbohydrate-protein 26.9 +/- 4.5 min, p < .05). Blood glucose and plasma
    insulin levels were elevated above placebo during carbohydrate and carbohydrate-protein
    supplementation, but no differences were found between the carbohydrate and carbohydrate-protein
    treatments. In summary, we found that the addition of protein to a carbohydrate supplement enhanced
    aerobic endurance performance above that which occurred with carbohydrate alone, but the reason for
    this improvement in performance was not evident.

    the biggest problem I have is that the CHO-PRO combo provides more total energy. A better design
    would have been to have the CHO only beverage have an additional 1.94% CHO to make the two drinks
    isocaloric. It is interesting that insulin levels went up since usually in exercise, insulin levels
    do not rise and can even drop. One function of insulin is to drive glucose into the muscle for
    storage as glycogen. Since this would not be happening at the exercise intensity described (at least
    not at the higher end).

    I can give one reason for improved performance: more energy taken in.
     
  9. Sam

    Sam Guest

    "Dot" <[email protected]#att.net> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Harold Buck wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > I tried Accelerade. It's not good, but I can drink it. However, I've heard that their claims
    > > about including protein in the drink mix having a huge effect on endurance have been
    > > discredited. Does anyone have details on this?
    >
    > This is what I was getting at with my question to Sam in the REcovery food & drink thread. The
    > only discredit I've seen is the conflict in funding sources / someone making a profit, which may
    > or may not affect "results". That is, I haven't seen a counter study, although there may be - and
    > what I was wondering if Sam had seen any.
    >
    > However, many drinks for long (multiple hr) runs contain protein and some have fat. Some of these
    > were developed by reputable physiologists / ultrarunners.
    >
    > Dot
    >
    > --
    > "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
    >

    In Ed's defense, he never published research in this area (at least not peer reviewed). He merely
    took some of the literature and went with it to develop a product that has its uses. Again, I
    think protein in the recovery process is important. Ed never denied this and even just before his
    death started focusing more on the anabolic and tissue regeneration benefits of post exercise
    protein intake.
     
  10. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    Harold Buck wrote:

    > I tried Accelerade. It's not good, but I can drink it. However, I've heard that their claims about
    > including protein in the drink mix having a huge effect on endurance have been discredited. Does
    > anyone have details on this?

    Sam/Dot,

    I did not take Harold's question to mean during recovery but while running. I have not seen any
    science to discredit this but like many I would be very interested.

    As with Dot I'm a big SUCCEED!CLIP fan. from the web page:

    "SUCCEED! CLIP Sportsdrink SUCCEED! CLIP sportsdrink is intended for use in lengthy training runs or
    racing events such as ultramarathons which last more than 6 hours. It contains easily digested
    carbohydrate for muscle fuel, Branched Chain Amino Acids and protein to preserve the athlete’s
    muscle, and Medium Chain Triglyceride to provide energy from fat, and stabilize the digestive tract.

    Drinks which contain only carbohydrates tend to acidify in the digestive tract after many hours of
    use. The Medium Chain Triglyceride in CLIP reduces that tendency because digestion of fat prompts
    the addition of acid neutralizing bicarbonate to the digestive tract, counteracting excess stomach
    acid. The MCT also supplies energy from fat, sparing the runners supply of muscle of glycogen.
    Studies show that athletes who ingest MCT with carbohydrate can work longer than if they had
    consumed only carbohydrate."

    I've done races with and without and my anecdotal experience along with a bunch of others on the
    ultra circuit also have had very positive results.

    --
    Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email protected]
     
  11. Dot

    Dot Guest

    Sam wrote:
    >
    > In Ed's defense, he never published research in this area (at least not peer reviewed). He merely
    > took some of the literature and went with it to develop a product that has its uses. Again, I
    > think protein in the recovery process is important. Ed never denied this and even just before his
    > death started focusing more on the anabolic and tissue regeneration benefits of post exercise
    > protein intake.

    Thanks for this clarification. I didn't realize that he just took the literature and went with it. I
    had the incorrect impression that there were some closer ties there.

    I also wanted to clarify something since re-reading my morning posts, they may have sounded a little
    negative toward Burke. I know some folks had criticized the perceived conflict of making a profit
    with endurox and pushing the 4:1 ratio in his book on optimal muscle recovery, and I've kept that in
    the back of my mind. But IMHO that doesn't necessarily take away from the value of anything he said.
    When I referred to "reputable" physiologist / ultrarunner, I had someone on the ultra list and his
    products (Succeed) in mind - in contrast to some other products where the descriptions sound like
    they threw together a chemistry book with no justification for any of the components. In no way was
    that intended to suggest that Burke was not reputable - I was contrasting Succeed (and possibly some
    other products) with the fashion drinks, or at least that's what I call them. They may have some
    good points, but it gets buried under glitz.

    Thanks again for your comments.

    Dot

    --
    "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
     
  12. Dot

    Dot Guest

    Doug Freese wrote:
    >
    >
    > Harold Buck wrote:
    >
    >
    >> I tried Accelerade. It's not good, but I can drink it. However, I've heard that their claims
    >> about including protein in the drink mix having a huge effect on endurance have been discredited.
    >> Does anyone have details on this?
    >
    >
    >
    > Sam/Dot,
    >
    > I did not take Harold's question to mean during recovery but while running.

    Right. Endurox and Accelerade are recover and active drinks, respectively, with the 4:1 carb:protein
    ratio by the same company. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that he was talking about some of the
    comments about Burke's connection - which I had already asked about in the other thread, which
    happened to be on recovery.

    Regardless of the research, I have found it interesting how many drinks or other products have
    ratios some where in the 4:1 vicinity - things like Simfast that I rather doubt care about its use
    in endurance sports. Ensure might since it does tend to be a little sports oriented.

    I have not seen any science to discredit this but like many I
    > would be very interested.

    ditto.

    >
    > As with Dot I'm a big SUCCEED!CLIP fan.

    For curiosity, I hear a lot of people using Ultra nnd Clip, but I'm not sure I've heard anybody use
    Amino. Any thoughts as to why?

    Dot

    --
    "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
     
  13. Dirk

    Dirk Guest

    Here is what I drink after a good run.

    http://www.letitloose.com/

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]ast.net says...
    > I am curious about hearing from this forum which sports drinks seem to perform better than
    > others. Sport drinks being defines as "replenishers" or drinks to have before and during
    > excerise... etc.. like Gatorade etc. In my surface look at these drinks, most appear to be sugar
    > water with artificial coloring. What "sport drinks" has this forum experimented or used with
    > success ? thanks -joe
    >
     
  14. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    Dot wrote:

    > For curiosity, I hear a lot of people using Ultra nnd Clip, but I'm not sure I've heard anybody
    > use Amino. Any thoughts as to why?

    At one time is was touted as useful for fast people. Since I'm not I never thought to use it not do
    I know of anyone that does use it. :)

    --
    Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email protected]
     
  15. Sam

    Sam Guest

    "Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:AM0%[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > Harold Buck wrote:
    >
    >
    > > I tried Accelerade. It's not good, but I can drink it. However, I've heard that their claims
    > > about including protein in the drink mix having a huge effect on endurance have been
    > > discredited. Does anyone have details on this?
    >
    >
    > Sam/Dot,
    >
    > I did not take Harold's question to mean during recovery but while running. I have not seen any
    > science to discredit this but like many I would be very interested.
    >
    > As with Dot I'm a big SUCCEED!CLIP fan. from the web page:
    >
    > "SUCCEED! CLIP Sportsdrink SUCCEED! CLIP sportsdrink is intended for use in lengthy training
    > runs or racing events such as ultramarathons which last more than 6 hours. It contains easily
    > digested carbohydrate for muscle fuel, Branched Chain Amino Acids and protein to preserve the
    > athlete’s muscle, and Medium Chain Triglyceride to provide energy from fat, and stabilize the
    > digestive tract.
    >
    >
    > Drinks which contain only carbohydrates tend to acidify in the digestive tract after many hours of
    > use. The Medium Chain Triglyceride in CLIP reduces that tendency because digestion of fat prompts
    > the addition of acid neutralizing bicarbonate to the digestive tract, counteracting excess stomach
    > acid. The MCT also supplies energy from fat, sparing the runners supply of muscle of glycogen.
    > Studies show that athletes who ingest MCT with carbohydrate can work longer than if they had
    > consumed only carbohydrate."
    Most of these studies use what I consider to a design flaw. The study has the subject run or
    ride at a set intensity (say 70% of VO2max). I know of no event in the real world where you are
    told to run at a set pace for as long as you can. Most events have a set distance that you are
    to cover as fast as possible.

    >
    > I've done races with and without and my anecdotal experience along with a bunch of others on the
    > ultra circuit also have had very positive results.
    >
    >
    I think ultras are different and relatively few people do them. As someone who has done ultra
    endurance bike events (10-12 hours), my approach to fueling during the event was very different
    than during a 10K or even marathon. The lower intensity allows for the use of other food
    sources. Heck, I could eat sandwiches while riding at my 10 hour pace.

    > --
    > Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email protected]
     
  16. Dot

    Dot Guest

    Sam wrote:

    > "Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:AM0%[email protected]...
    >

    >>Drinks which contain only carbohydrates tend to acidify in the digestive tract after many hours of
    >>use. The Medium Chain Triglyceride in CLIP reduces that tendency because digestion of fat prompts
    >>the addition of acid neutralizing bicarbonate to the digestive tract, counteracting excess stomach
    >>acid. The MCT also supplies energy from fat, sparing the runners supply of muscle of glycogen.
    >>Studies show that athletes who ingest MCT with carbohydrate can work longer than if they had
    >>consumed only carbohydrate."
    >
    > Most of these studies use what I consider to a design flaw.

    Are you referring specifically to the MCT action or some of the other components and their actions?
    Do you have some references you could point me to? I'm just trying to learn and have been more
    focused on cold weather issues - and way behind in reading. I've been using the products because
    they have some logic behind them, seem to work for me so far (although runs aren't that long yet),
    and the taste is bland enough that it should be tolerable for long periods - with this last point
    being perhaps the most important to me.

    >The study has the subject run or ride at a set intensity (say 70% of VO2max). I know of no event in
    >the real world where you are told to run at a set pace for as long as you can. Most events have a
    >set distance that you are to cover as fast as possible.

    I know the person that helped develop the Succeed products is a strong advocate of walk breaks
    (maybe 5 min or more) to allow digestion / metabolism to do its thing. So I'm wondering if there's
    some other papers out there or perhaps unpublished works.

    Thanks.

    Dot

    --
    "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
     
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