Sports drinks



On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:14:11 -0400, Peter Cole wrote:

> I think they're all ****. I'd rather drink water and eat real food.


I'm with you Peter, although I do actually like Clif bars.

Matt O.
 
Frank Drackman says...

> Do you bring extra power for long rides? I have been using Gatorade because
> I can find it most anywhere I ride.


I do, but the next trick is finding water. But if you can find
Gatorade, then water should be easy.
 
In article
<[email protected]>,
mrbubl <[email protected]> wrote:

> Peter Cole wrote:
> > Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >>>> But do Cytomax and Accelerade, among others
> >>>> work as advertised, or is Gatorade just as good
> >>>> for replenishing body fluids and salts?
> >>>>
> >>> used to cramp up BAD post ride and switched to Cytomax and that
> >>> elimated the cramp problem for me. Know of other people that had
> >>> enjoyed the same benefit. The nice thing is you can buy individual
> >>> size packets to try. I like cool citrus & tropical punch not too
> >>> keen on orange or apple. As always, YMMV.
> >>
> >> I'm in the same camp... drink enough Cytomax, zero cramping. I
> >> actually have to be careful on organized rides to not drink the usual
> >> watered-down lemonade or gatorade, since it means I'll be drinking
> >> less Cytomax and far more likely to cramp. I can't tell you how or why
> >> it works; I just know that, for me, it's the most amazing stuff I've
> >> come across for longer rides.

> >
> > Interesting, but the Cytomax makers don't claim cramp avoidance, nor
> > does any of the medical literature indicate the possibility of
> > anti-cramping formulas. I know, I've researched it to death. I also
> > worked my way through most of a big (5lb?) tub of Cytomax -- no
> > different than Kool-aid, as far as I could find, but it was much more
> > expensive and tasted pretty crappy.

>
> My understanding is that Cytomax has a lactic acid buffering component
> that helps for during and post ride effect. In my case, after the ride
> I would back off on the fluids (my mistake) and was in a hydration
> deficit evidenced by urine color being concentrated rather than clear
> indicating proper hydration and playing catch up ball.


Lactic acid accumulation during exercise is a complex
matter; and I am new to it. I know that lactic acid
servers to buffer H+ in muscle cells during anaerobic
metabolism, and that it is transported out of muscle
cells. Can you tell me about lactic acid buffering?

--
Michael Press
 
Michael Press wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> mrbubl <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Peter Cole wrote:
>>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>>>> But do Cytomax and Accelerade, among others
>>>>>> work as advertised, or is Gatorade just as good
>>>>>> for replenishing body fluids and salts?
>>>>>>
>>>>> used to cramp up BAD post ride and switched to Cytomax and that
>>>>> elimated the cramp problem for me. Know of other people that had
>>>>> enjoyed the same benefit. The nice thing is you can buy individual
>>>>> size packets to try. I like cool citrus & tropical punch not too
>>>>> keen on orange or apple. As always, YMMV.
>>>> I'm in the same camp... drink enough Cytomax, zero cramping. I
>>>> actually have to be careful on organized rides to not drink the usual
>>>> watered-down lemonade or gatorade, since it means I'll be drinking
>>>> less Cytomax and far more likely to cramp. I can't tell you how or why
>>>> it works; I just know that, for me, it's the most amazing stuff I've
>>>> come across for longer rides.
>>> Interesting, but the Cytomax makers don't claim cramp avoidance, nor
>>> does any of the medical literature indicate the possibility of
>>> anti-cramping formulas. I know, I've researched it to death. I also
>>> worked my way through most of a big (5lb?) tub of Cytomax -- no
>>> different than Kool-aid, as far as I could find, but it was much more
>>> expensive and tasted pretty crappy.

>> My understanding is that Cytomax has a lactic acid buffering component
>> that helps for during and post ride effect. In my case, after the ride
>> I would back off on the fluids (my mistake) and was in a hydration
>> deficit evidenced by urine color being concentrated rather than clear
>> indicating proper hydration and playing catch up ball.

>
> Lactic acid accumulation during exercise is a complex
> matter; and I am new to it. I know that lactic acid
> servers to buffer H+ in muscle cells during anaerobic
> metabolism, and that it is transported out of muscle
> cells. Can you tell me about lactic acid buffering?
>

From their web site:

# Beats The BurnTM: Cytomax's patented alpha L-PolylactateTM buffers
lactic acid production in your muscles, reducing the "burn" during
intense training and minimizing post-exercise muscle soreness.

# Steady Energy: Complex carbs stabilize blood sugar during exercise -
no sugar crash

# Cell Protection: antioxidants prevent exercise-induced free radical
damage to muscle cells

# Oxygen Delivery: succinates enhance oxygen delivery by up to 11%
during exercise, reducing perceived exertion and minimizing muscle damage

# Cellular Balance: Electrolytes ensure cellular nutrient balance is
restored quickly after exercise

# Low Osmoality: ensures fluid reaches your muscles quickly - as fast as
water!

# Natural Herbal "Lift": (in Tangy Orange, Go Grape and Peachy Keen
flavors only) reduces your perceived effort so you can push harder
 
mrbubl wrote:
> Michael Press wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> mrbubl <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Cole wrote:
>>>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>>>>> But do Cytomax and Accelerade, among others
>>>>>>> work as advertised, or is Gatorade just as good
>>>>>>> for replenishing body fluids and salts?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> used to cramp up BAD post ride and switched to Cytomax and that
>>>>>> elimated the cramp problem for me. Know of other people that had
>>>>>> enjoyed the same benefit. The nice thing is you can buy
>>>>>> individual size packets to try. I like cool citrus & tropical
>>>>>> punch not too keen on orange or apple. As always, YMMV.
>>>>> I'm in the same camp... drink enough Cytomax, zero cramping. I
>>>>> actually have to be careful on organized rides to not drink the
>>>>> usual watered-down lemonade or gatorade, since it means I'll be
>>>>> drinking less Cytomax and far more likely to cramp. I can't tell
>>>>> you how or why it works; I just know that, for me, it's the most
>>>>> amazing stuff I've come across for longer rides.
>>>> Interesting, but the Cytomax makers don't claim cramp avoidance, nor
>>>> does any of the medical literature indicate the possibility of
>>>> anti-cramping formulas. I know, I've researched it to death. I also
>>>> worked my way through most of a big (5lb?) tub of Cytomax -- no
>>>> different than Kool-aid, as far as I could find, but it was much
>>>> more expensive and tasted pretty crappy.
>>> My understanding is that Cytomax has a lactic acid buffering
>>> component that helps for during and post ride effect. In my case,
>>> after the ride I would back off on the fluids (my mistake) and was in
>>> a hydration deficit evidenced by urine color being concentrated
>>> rather than clear indicating proper hydration and playing catch up ball.

>>
>> Lactic acid accumulation during exercise is a complex matter; and I am
>> new to it. I know that lactic acid servers to buffer H+ in muscle
>> cells during anaerobic metabolism, and that it is transported out of
>> muscle cells. Can you tell me about lactic acid buffering?
>>

> From their web site:
>
> # Beats The BurnTM: Cytomax's patented alpha L-PolylactateTM buffers
> lactic acid production in your muscles, reducing the "burn" during
> intense training and minimizing post-exercise muscle soreness.
>
> # Steady Energy: Complex carbs stabilize blood sugar during exercise -
> no sugar crash
>
> # Cell Protection: antioxidants prevent exercise-induced free radical
> damage to muscle cells
>
> # Oxygen Delivery: succinates enhance oxygen delivery by up to 11%
> during exercise, reducing perceived exertion and minimizing muscle damage
>
> # Cellular Balance: Electrolytes ensure cellular nutrient balance is
> restored quickly after exercise
>
> # Low Osmoality: ensures fluid reaches your muscles quickly - as fast as
> water!
>
> # Natural Herbal "Lift": (in Tangy Orange, Go Grape and Peachy Keen
> flavors only) reduces your perceived effort so you can push harder



WHAT IS POLYLACTATE AND WHAT DOES IT DO?, by George Brooks, Ph.D.,
Professor of Exercise Physiology.

POLYLACTATE is a mixture of organic (mainly) and inorganic salts of
lactic acid. Thus, POLYLACTATE is not an acid, but it is a rapidly used
fuel the use of which helps to supply energy, maintain blood sugar
(glucose), and neutralize naturally produced acids in the body,
including lactic acid. The use of POLYLACTATE to supply energy rapidly
in exercise, to bolster blood sugar, and to neutralize (buffer) body
acids during exercise is explained in the following way.

Often in nature, success in any system depends on balance. For instance,
for crop growth there needs to be a balance of nutrient soil, sunlight
and water with excesses, or insufficient amounts of one component
producing a poor result. So it is that balance in human physiology
determines success of many metabolic processes. One critically important
process has to do with the balance of formation and removal
(utilization) of lactic acid in muscle during vigorous activity.

Recent research indicates that when muscles use blood sugar or stored
carbohydrate (glycogen), much of these carbohydrates are converted to
lactic acid. Lactic acid is a very strong organic acid. In physiological
systems, almost all the lactic acid formed dissociates to the extremely
useful lactate component (that represents 98.9%), and a hydrogen ion, or
proton that represents 1.1%. Usually in the body the production and
removal of lactic acid are in balance so that despite rapid production,
little accumulates. In the past scientists thought that during exercise
lactate was a dead-end metabolite which was produced because of
insufficient oxygen and caused fatigue. In contrast, we now know that
lactic acid is produced all the time in many cells and tissues, and in
muscle, even at rest when there is plenty of oxygen. Only when the
production outstrips removal does the acid part of the molecule linger
to cause burning, fatigue and sensations that make athletes want to quit
activity.

Why the body chooses to make lactic acid rapidly, and why the body uses
this metabolic intermediate as the most important blood borne
carbohydrate during exercise is an extremely complex, and revolutionary
concept. However, for our present purposes we need only realize that the
body needs and uses lactate, but the body suffers if hydrogen ions
accumulate and causes lactic acidosis. In the form of POLYLACTATE, we
then restore the balance of salt and acid by providing lactate
molecules, but without the 1.1% acid component.

Muscle can use carbohydrates faster than lipids, more energy is
available for a given oxygen supply, and muscles contract more
forcefully if carbohydrates are used as fuels. Moreover, by releasing
lactate during exercise, some muscle can fuel other muscles, including
the heart which consume and utilize lactate and protons from the blood.
Additionally, in the process of producing sugar for the body during
exercise, the major material taken from the blood by the liver is
lactate. In fact, the liver consumes two lactates and two acid protons
to make one sugar molecule.

With this new knowledge in hand, it then becomes obvious what to supply
the athlete during prolonged hard exercise and recovery; give the body
what it uses most rapidly, and give it something which will help remove
acid protons formed during exercise. Give the body a designer molecule,
the lactate without the acid proton, give the body POLYLACTATE.

CYTOMAX, the Fluid-Electrolyte Energy replacement drink contains mainly
the organic salt, POLYLACTATE, but also a small amount of inorganic
potassium and sodium salts of lactate. In this case lactate is used to
carry and replenish the salts lost in sweat during exercise as well as
to stimulate thirst insuring hydration. However, relative to energy use,
inorganic salt loss during exercise is slow. Therefore, should someone
try to replace energy during exercise by using an inorganic salt, such
as sodium, potassium, or calcium lactate, rapidly the lactate would be
removed leaving a large salt load with dehydration being the result.
Instead, with the completely organic POLYLACTATE in which amino acids
are used to carry the lactate molecules, the body is provided substances
all of which are useful during exercise and recovery.

In summary, for replacing fluid, electrolytes, and energy, and for
stimulating body glucose production and for buffering the effects of
acids produced during exercise,. consider using CYTOMAX which is blended
with all these processes in mind.
 
> Interesting, but the Cytomax makers don't claim cramp avoidance, nor does
> any of the medical literature indicate the possibility of anti-cramping
> formulas.


From the Cytomax label-

"Lowers lactic acid level during and after training by 40% for less burning
and cramping during training and less soreness after"

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>> But do Cytomax and Accelerade, among others
>>>> work as advertised, or is Gatorade just as good
>>>> for replenishing body fluids and salts?
>>>>
>>> used to cramp up BAD post ride and switched to Cytomax and that elimated
>>> the cramp problem for me. Know of other people that had enjoyed the
>>> same benefit. The nice thing is you can buy individual size packets to
>>> try. I like cool citrus & tropical punch not too keen on orange or
>>> apple. As always, YMMV.

>>
>> I'm in the same camp... drink enough Cytomax, zero cramping. I actually
>> have to be careful on organized rides to not drink the usual watered-down
>> lemonade or gatorade, since it means I'll be drinking less Cytomax and
>> far more likely to cramp. I can't tell you how or why it works; I just
>> know that, for me, it's the most amazing stuff I've come across for
>> longer rides.

>
> Interesting, but the Cytomax makers don't claim cramp avoidance, nor does
> any of the medical literature indicate the possibility of anti-cramping
> formulas. I know, I've researched it to death. I also worked my way
> through most of a big (5lb?) tub of Cytomax -- no different than Kool-aid,
> as far as I could find, but it was much more expensive and tasted pretty
> crappy.
 
> Do you bring extra power for long rides? I have been using Gatorade
> because I can find it most anywhere I ride.


Absolutely! And I'm always amazed that I get through airports without being
questioned about my multiple baggies with white powder in them. For a
century, I'll usually bring along four or five baggies, each of which get
two scoops of Cytomax (what I used in one 26oz bottle), and then put the
four baggies into yet another baggie, so everything's in one place and
spillage is minimized. I wouldn't even consider doing a 50+ mile ride
without Cytomax. Anything over 30 miles and there's a definite benefit;
below that, not that big a deal (unless it's really hot).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Frank Drackman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:e%[email protected]...
>> I'm in the same camp... drink enough Cytomax, zero cramping. I actually
>> have to be careful on organized rides to not drink the usual watered-down
>> lemonade or gatorade, since it means I'll be drinking less Cytomax and
>> far more likely to cramp. I can't tell you how or why it works; I just
>> know that, for me, it's the most amazing stuff I've come across for
>> longer rides.
>>

>
> Do you bring extra power for long rides? I have been using Gatorade
> because I can find it most anywhere I ride.
>
 
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

> What I've read is that in warm weather and long rides, electrolytes
> help prevent cramping.


I think that theory has been largely discredited. It's a fatigue thing.


> If you're eating salty food at the same time,
> or your diet in general is high in salt, then salt in the drink isn't
> useful. But if you're not, the salts help. Salts in drinks also tend
> to make people drink more, which is a big bonus if they otherwise
> wouldn't drink enough.


If you need salt on a long hot ride it's because you've depleted your
reserve (about 8g Na, if I recall correctly). It's possible to deplete
that in a few hours of heavy sweating, but until that condition occurs
you don't need extra salt. The salt in Gatorade was originally added to
speed uptake, not to replenish. If you need to replenish, there's not
enough. Drinks beyond a certain salinity are extremely unpalatable --
you're much better off eating some salty foods or taking tablets.

>> I also
>> worked my way through most of a big (5lb?) tub of Cytomax -- no
>> different than Kool-aid, as far as I could find, but it was much more
>> expensive and tasted pretty crappy.

>
> I've ridden on Kool-Aid and fruit juices, but usally add salt to them
> if the weather is warm and I'm riding far or hard.


I fill gelatin caps with a 1/3 bicarb, 2/3 table salt mix. My
experience is that I haven't needed them unless the weather is very warm
and the distance is over 100 miles.
 
Matt O'Toole wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 16:14:11 -0400, Peter Cole wrote:
>
>> I think they're all ****. I'd rather drink water and eat real food.

>
> I'm with you Peter, although I do actually like Clif bars.
>
> Matt O.
>


Yeah, but at a buck and a half a pop there are so many more interesting
things to eat.
 
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:21:25 -0400, Peter Cole
<[email protected]> wrote:

>John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>
>> What I've read is that in warm weather and long rides, electrolytes
>> help prevent cramping.

>
>I think that theory has been largely discredited.


No.



> It's a fatigue thing.


Both.

>If you need salt on a long hot ride it's because you've depleted your
>reserve (about 8g Na, if I recall correctly). It's possible to deplete
>that in a few hours of heavy sweating, but until that condition occurs
>you don't need extra salt. The salt in Gatorade was originally added to
>speed uptake, not to replenish. If you need to replenish, there's not
>enough.


Yeah. Gatorade Endurance is better than regular Gatorade in that
respect.

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
 
Mike Jacoubowsky <[email protected]> wrote:

> From the Cytomax label-
>
> "Lowers lactic acid level during and after training by 40% for less burning
> and cramping during training and less soreness after"


Read the microprint: Based on a couple of sketchy studies funded by the
company. Not backed up by independent peer-reviewed research.
 
>> "Lowers lactic acid level during and after training by 40% for less
>> burning
>> and cramping during training and less soreness after"

>
> Read the microprint: Based on a couple of sketchy studies funded by the
> company. Not backed up by independent peer-reviewed research.


Just answering the original statement, which was-

"Interesting, but the Cytomax makers don't claim cramp avoidance..."

In fact, Cytomax does make sure claims. How well they're backed up is a
different subject.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
 
mrbubl wrote:
>
>
>
> WHAT IS POLYLACTATE AND WHAT DOES IT DO?, by George Brooks, Ph.D.,
> Professor of Exercise Physiology.
>
> POLYLACTATE is a mixture of organic (mainly) and inorganic salts of
> lactic acid. Thus, POLYLACTATE is not an acid, but it is a rapidly used
> fuel the use of which helps to supply energy, maintain blood sugar
> (glucose), and neutralize naturally produced acids in the body,
> including lactic acid.


A quick search of the literature yield one article from 1991 claiming it
*may* help (same author as above quote)
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1844999&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum>

and another (1994) saying it doesn't:
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8002124&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum>

These guys seem to hang a whole lot of advertising on an unsubstantiated
claim.

I think it's all just (very) expensive Kool-aid.
 
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 10:34:50 -0400, Peter Cole
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >>>> But do Cytomax and Accelerade, among others
> >>>> work as advertised, or is Gatorade just as good
> >>>> for replenishing body fluids and salts?
> >>>>
> >>> used to cramp up BAD post ride and switched to Cytomax and that elimated
> >>> the cramp problem for me. Know of other people that had enjoyed the same
> >>> benefit. The nice thing is you can buy individual size packets to try. I
> >>> like cool citrus & tropical punch not too keen on orange or apple. As
> >>> always, YMMV.
> >>
> >> I'm in the same camp... drink enough Cytomax, zero cramping. I actually have
> >> to be careful on organized rides to not drink the usual watered-down
> >> lemonade or gatorade, since it means I'll be drinking less Cytomax and far
> >> more likely to cramp. I can't tell you how or why it works; I just know
> >> that, for me, it's the most amazing stuff I've come across for longer rides.

> >
> >Interesting, but the Cytomax makers don't claim cramp avoidance, nor
> >does any of the medical literature indicate the possibility of
> >anti-cramping formulas. I know, I've researched it to death.

>
> What I've read is that in warm weather and long rides, electrolytes
> help prevent cramping. If you're eating salty food at the same time,
> or your diet in general is high in salt, then salt in the drink isn't
> useful. But if you're not, the salts help. Salts in drinks also tend
> to make people drink more, which is a big bonus if they otherwise
> wouldn't drink enough.


I add electrolyte tablets ( www.nuun.com ) to plain water when I'm not
concerned about also getting calories. The tablets (I use one per 24oz.
bottle) add just enough flavor that I drink more fluids.

Sam
 
On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 20:08:56 GMT, mrbubl <[email protected]> wrote:

>mrbubl wrote:
>> From their web site:
>>
>> # Beats The BurnTM: Cytomax's patented alpha L-PolylactateTM buffers
>> lactic acid production in your muscles, reducing the "burn" during
>> intense training and minimizing post-exercise muscle soreness.
>>

>
>WHAT IS POLYLACTATE AND WHAT DOES IT DO?, by George Brooks, Ph.D.,
>Professor of Exercise Physiology.
>
>POLYLACTATE is a mixture of organic (mainly) and inorganic salts of
>lactic acid. Thus, POLYLACTATE is not an acid, but it is a rapidly used
>fuel the use of which helps to supply energy, maintain blood sugar
>(glucose), and neutralize naturally produced acids in the body,
>including lactic acid. The use of POLYLACTATE to supply energy rapidly
>in exercise, to bolster blood sugar, and to neutralize (buffer) body
>acids during exercise is explained in the following way.


I hope you'll pardon me if I clip the rest of this marketing babble;
this strikes me as hilarious all by itself. Start with the fact that
lactic acid is generated by the muscles during anaerobic effort, then
flushed out of the muscles so the liver can use it to generate more
glucose. Now, put some of this wonder drug into a drink mix, load up
the liver with more lactic acid that wasn't generated in the muscles,
and call it a fuel.

Anyone want to buy some ocean front real estate?

Without looking at a can, maybe the added electrolytes do help.
(Although at "low osmoality" -- geez, these folks ever see the inside
of a chemistry book when they were sober? -- that wouldn't help too
much.) Maybe they add a buffer -- sodium bicarbonate, maybe? I just
hope their formulation chemists are better that the marketeers writing
that dreck.

Pat

Email address works as is.
 
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in news:0allg.25321
[email protected]:

> "Interesting, but the Cytomax makers don't claim cramp avoidance..."
>
> In fact, Cytomax does make sure claims. How well they're backed up is a
> different subject.


If the common knowledge is that electrolyte depletion causes cramps and
Cytomax contains electrolytes, isn't it intuitively obvious?

--
Mike DeMicco <[email protected]>
 
In article
<[email protected]>,
mrbubl <[email protected]> wrote:

> mrbubl wrote:
> > Michael Press wrote:
> >> In article <[email protected]>,
> >> mrbubl <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Peter Cole wrote:
> >>>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >>>>>>> But do Cytomax and Accelerade, among others
> >>>>>>> work as advertised, or is Gatorade just as good
> >>>>>>> for replenishing body fluids and salts?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> used to cramp up BAD post ride and switched to Cytomax and that
> >>>>>> elimated the cramp problem for me. Know of other people that had
> >>>>>> enjoyed the same benefit. The nice thing is you can buy
> >>>>>> individual size packets to try. I like cool citrus & tropical
> >>>>>> punch not too keen on orange or apple. As always, YMMV.
> >>>>> I'm in the same camp... drink enough Cytomax, zero cramping. I
> >>>>> actually have to be careful on organized rides to not drink the
> >>>>> usual watered-down lemonade or gatorade, since it means I'll be
> >>>>> drinking less Cytomax and far more likely to cramp. I can't tell
> >>>>> you how or why it works; I just know that, for me, it's the most
> >>>>> amazing stuff I've come across for longer rides.
> >>>> Interesting, but the Cytomax makers don't claim cramp avoidance, nor
> >>>> does any of the medical literature indicate the possibility of
> >>>> anti-cramping formulas. I know, I've researched it to death. I also
> >>>> worked my way through most of a big (5lb?) tub of Cytomax -- no
> >>>> different than Kool-aid, as far as I could find, but it was much
> >>>> more expensive and tasted pretty crappy.
> >>> My understanding is that Cytomax has a lactic acid buffering
> >>> component that helps for during and post ride effect. In my case,
> >>> after the ride I would back off on the fluids (my mistake) and was in
> >>> a hydration deficit evidenced by urine color being concentrated
> >>> rather than clear indicating proper hydration and playing catch up ball.
> >>
> >> Lactic acid accumulation during exercise is a complex matter; and I am
> >> new to it. I know that lactic acid servers to buffer H+ in muscle
> >> cells during anaerobic metabolism, and that it is transported out of
> >> muscle cells. Can you tell me about lactic acid buffering?
> >>

> > From their web site:
> >
> > # Beats The BurnTM: Cytomax's patented alpha L-PolylactateTM buffers
> > lactic acid production in your muscles, reducing the "burn" during
> > intense training and minimizing post-exercise muscle soreness.


[...]

I hope it works; would like to see the research.

<http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/287/3/R502>

One misapprehension is that the problem is formation of
lactic acid during anaerobic metabolism. The correlation
noted between lactic acid and muscle fatigue was made into
a causal link and entered, unexamined, the folklore of
muscle physiology for several decades. The source of
muscle fatigue is acidosis. H+ are formed from glycolysis
and ATP hydrolysis. It is the lactate that buffers some of
the H+, acting to _reduce_ acidosis. The lactic acid is
then removed from the cell into the blood stream, ridding
the cell of the H+ entirely. As a matter of fact lactic
acid has the highest pH (lowest acidity) of the acids
typically found in muscle cells; meaning that it is an
excellent buffer for H+.

--
Michael Press
 
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:21:25 -0400, Peter Cole
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>>
>>> What I've read is that in warm weather and long rides, electrolytes
>>> help prevent cramping.

>> I think that theory has been largely discredited.

>
> No.


EMAC="Exercise-associated muscle cramps"

From (2005):
<http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1150229>

"Conclusions: Consumption of a carbohydrate-electrolyte beverage before
and during exercise in a hot environment may delay the onset of EAMCs,
thereby allowing participants to exercise longer. However, it appears
that dehydration and electrolyte loss are not the sole causes of EAMCs,
because 69% of the subjects experienced EAMCs when they were hydrated
and supplemented with electrolytes."

and

"A more recent theory suggests that EAMCs are related to sustained
neural activity that results from fatigue.5 This idea is supported by
studies of distance runners, who are most likely to experience cramps
toward the end of a race.2,6 McGee17 found that 1 to 2 hours of activity
usually precipitate EAMCs."

finally

"No known studies have been performed in a controlled environment to
consider which conditions are most likely to reduce the occurrence of
EAMCs. Therefore, our purpose was to determine the effect of hydration
and electrolyte supplementation on the incidence of EAMCs and duration
of exercise before the onset of EAMCs."

From (2004):
<http://bjsm.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/38/4/488>

"Conclusions: There are no clinically significant alterations in serum
electrolyte concentrations and there is no alteration in hydration
status in runners with EAMC participating in an ultra-distance race."

From (2005):
<http://www.ms-se.com/pt/re/msse/abstract.00005768-200507000-00001.htm;jsessionid=GWjMhjTSVGhx9CX7tDkX6gF3Yg6KV8FVrJc91FczLQp91nzQLwpJ!588122478!-949856145!8091!-1>

"Conclusion: Acute EAMC in ironman triathletes is not associated with a
greater percent body mass loss or clinically significant differences in
serum electrolyte concentrations. The increased EMG activity of cramping
muscles may reflect increased neuromuscular activity."
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email protected]>,
Mike DeMicco <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in news:0allg.25321
>[email protected]:
>
>> "Interesting, but the Cytomax makers don't claim cramp avoidance..."
>>
>> In fact, Cytomax does make sure claims. How well they're backed up is a
>> different subject.

>
>If the common knowledge is that electrolyte depletion causes cramps and
>Cytomax contains electrolytes, isn't it intuitively obvious?
>


_ It may be "common knowledge" but there's no science to back
it. It's my understanding that the causes for muscle cramps are
not well understood at all and there is no "one size fits all"
answer. I like and use cytomax and I think it's better than
Gatorade because High Fructose Corn Syrup is the wrong kind
of sugar[1], and I like the taste. However, I am not convinced
that koolaid made with malt sugar and salt wouldn't be just
as good.

_Cytomax is easy, convient and if you buy it at 50% off not
totally outrageous. However, when I'm at the end of my
reserves in a long hot hilly century, I always search for
the cold pepsi...

_ Booker C. Bense

[1]- Mostly because it can be hard to digest and cause stomach
upset.

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Peter Cole wrote:
> Zilla wrote:
> > Sorry if this has been asked..
> >
> > But do Cytomax and Accelerade, among others
> > work as advertised, or is Gatorade just as good
> > for replenishing body fluids and salts?
> >

>
> I think they're all ****. I'd rather drink water and eat real food.


You coulda had a V8!!

Cam
 

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