Sporty rider wondering about steep-angle bike...

[Jeff Potter]

I'm thinking of getting a new (to me) bike, an Atala Pro, mid-80's,
for 1-3 local fast rides and errand-blasts.

It has 74ST/74.5HT angles. 38.5" wheelbase. 62x59cm frame. I guess one
might call them crit angles.

I'm used to a 58x58cm Pro Miyata with 73ST/74HT and 39" WB. It's maybe
more of a road bike, but I did lots of crits on it. I'm finding that
with thicker-sole shoes and old age that I can't use normal seatposts
and stems on this bike any longer---so it's probably too small. (The
ole' DA/AX "droop" pedals helped me fit it back in the day.)

I'm 6-1/175 and I like speed, but also decent comfort and stability.
I'll sometimes ride my race bike on smooth dirt roads.

I haven't ridden many race bikes.

Any reports on what a steeper angle bike like this might be like?

--JP

 

[Matt O'Toole]

Jeff Potter wrote:

> I'm thinking of getting a new (to me) bike, an Atala Pro, mid-80's,
> for 1-3 local fast rides and errand-blasts.
>
> It has 74ST/74.5HT angles. 38.5" wheelbase. 62x59cm frame. I guess one
> might call them crit angles.
>
> I'm used to a 58x58cm Pro Miyata with 73ST/74HT and 39" WB. It's maybe
> more of a road bike, but I did lots of crits on it. I'm finding that
> with thicker-sole shoes and old age that I can't use normal seatposts
> and stems on this bike any longer---so it's probably too small. (The
> ole' DA/AX "droop" pedals helped me fit it back in the day.)
>
> I'm 6-1/175 and I like speed, but also decent comfort and stability.
> I'll sometimes ride my race bike on smooth dirt roads.
>
> I haven't ridden many race bikes.
>
> Any reports on what a steeper angle bike like this might be like?

Steering will be quicker, but stability depends more on trail than anything
else. Track bikes may have very steep head angles, but most have enough trail
to make them stable enough in almost any situation. Being able to hold a line
in close quarters at high speeds, often while being bumped, is very important in
track racing.

The problem is that a bike's trail itself is hardly ever published. Plus it
depends on several other factors -- head angle, fork offset, fork length, and
wheel size. With road bikes, trail is adjustable by substituting forks with
different offset. However, fork length is not completely standardized either,
so such swaps are not as simple as it might seem.

If you have the complete fork dimensions of the bike in question, someone might
be able to give a more definitive answer.

Matt O.

 

[Arthur Harris]

"Matt O'Toole" wrote:
> Jeff Potter wrote:
>
>> I'm thinking of getting a new (to me) bike, an Atala Pro, mid-80's,
>> for 1-3 local fast rides and errand-blasts.
>>
>> It has 74ST/74.5HT angles. 38.5" wheelbase. 62x59cm frame. I guess one
>> might call them crit angles.
>> I'm 6-1/175 and I like speed, but also decent comfort and stability.
>> I'll sometimes ride my race bike on smooth dirt roads.

> Steering will be quicker, but stability depends more on trail than
> anything
> else.

> The problem is that a bike's trail itself is hardly ever published. Plus
> it
> depends on several other factors -- head angle, fork offset, fork length,
> and
> wheel size. With road bikes, trail is adjustable by substituting forks
> with
> different offset.

Most likely this Atala has steel forks. If the handling was found to be too
quick, the fork offset (a.k.a. "rake" in bicycling circles) could be
decreased by cold setting the fork curvature to provide more trail. But that
would shorten the wheelbase even more.

The current 38.5" wheelbase on a 62cm frame with a 59cm TT sounds extremely
short. I'm not sure what the OP means by "1-3 local fast rides and
errand-blasts" (1 to 3 hour rides?), but I don't think this would be a good
bike for long rides. Certainly not my idea of "comfort and stability."

Art Harris

 

[jim beam]

Arthur Harris wrote:
> "Matt O'Toole" wrote:
>
>>Jeff Potter wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm thinking of getting a new (to me) bike, an Atala Pro, mid-80's,
>>>for 1-3 local fast rides and errand-blasts.
>>>
>>>It has 74ST/74.5HT angles. 38.5" wheelbase. 62x59cm frame. I guess one
>>>might call them crit angles.
>>>I'm 6-1/175 and I like speed, but also decent comfort and stability.
>>>I'll sometimes ride my race bike on smooth dirt roads.
>
>
>>Steering will be quicker, but stability depends more on trail than
>>anything
>>else.
>
>
>>The problem is that a bike's trail itself is hardly ever published. Plus
>>it
>>depends on several other factors -- head angle, fork offset, fork length,
>>and
>>wheel size. With road bikes, trail is adjustable by substituting forks
>>with
>>different offset.
>
>
> Most likely this Atala has steel forks. If the handling was found to be too
> quick, the fork offset (a.k.a. "rake" in bicycling circles) could be
> decreased by cold setting the fork curvature to provide more trail. But that
> would shorten the wheelbase even more.
>
> The current 38.5" wheelbase on a 62cm frame with a 59cm TT sounds extremely
> short. I'm not sure what the OP means by "1-3 local fast rides and
> errand-blasts" (1 to 3 hour rides?), but I don't think this would be a good
> bike for long rides. Certainly not my idea of "comfort and stability."
>
> Art Harris
>

i have a bianchi pista that's short & real steep - it's great! i admit,
i've not been out for much more than 2 hours on it, but the fit &
stability are excellent. i have a della santa too that's 62 seat, 58
top, 73, 73 and that too is stable, well fitting & i can do 6 hours on
that without any problems. it's just a matter of what suits the individual.

 

[Matt O'Toole]

Arthur Harris wrote:

> Most likely this Atala has steel forks. If the handling was found to
> be too quick, the fork offset (a.k.a. "rake" in bicycling circles)
> could be decreased by cold setting the fork curvature to provide more
> trail.

Yup, as long as the fork's not chromed. If you bend a chromed fork, the chrome
will crack.

> But that would shorten the wheelbase even more.
>
> The current 38.5" wheelbase on a 62cm frame with a 59cm TT sounds
> extremely short. I'm not sure what the OP means by "1-3 local fast
> rides and errand-blasts" (1 to 3 hour rides?), but I don't think this
> would be a good bike for long rides. Certainly not my idea of
> "comfort and stability."

I think way too much is made of wheelbase. A "short" bike has a 99cm wheelbase,
a "normal" one 100cm, and one so "long" no racer would be seen on it 101-102cm.
Over the whole range, that's about a 3% difference.

Matt O.

 

[Jeff Potter]

"Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Arthur Harris wrote:
>
> > Most likely this Atala has steel forks. If the handling was found to
> > be too quick, the fork offset (a.k.a. "rake" in bicycling circles)
> > could be decreased by cold setting the fork curvature to provide more
> > trail.
>
> Yup, as long as the fork's not chromed. If you bend a chromed fork, the chrome
> will crack.
>
> > But that would shorten the wheelbase even more.

Yeah, it would increase steering-steadiness, but by shortening the WB,
it would also make the ride more harsh. In addition to stability
concerns (which as everyone notes has many factors) I suspect that
shorter bikes are harsher on the body.

> > The current 38.5" wheelbase on a 62cm frame with a 59cm TT sounds
> > extremely short. I'm not sure what the OP means by "1-3 local fast
> > rides and errand-blasts" (1 to 3 hour rides?),

My typo. Yeah, 1-3 HOUR rides.

> >but I don't think this
> > would be a good bike for long rides. Certainly not my idea of
> > "comfort and stability."
>
> I think way too much is made of wheelbase. A "short" bike has a 99cm wheelbase,
> a "normal" one 100cm, and one so "long" no racer would be seen on it 101-102cm.
> Over the whole range, that's about a 3% difference.

It does seem like much ado is made over not much. But ya never know
what counts. I recently changed from a 10 to an 11 stem and darn it
seems too long. I also raised the stem over an inch, but I don't seem
to notice that very much.

Oh well, it's hard to know what a bike will be like without riding it.
But I suspect that short ones are harsher at any rate.

--JP