SRAM Red or just the new 2010 SRAM Force?

[yum]

I've wanted to upgrade my groupset for some time and now decided to do something about it i've narrowed it down to SRAM however I'm not sure wether to go for SRAM red or the brand new SRAM Force.

what do you guys think? is there any difference worth caring about or shall i just settle for the cheaper Force?

any thoughts would be helpful

 

[Peter@vecchios]

I've wanted to upgrade my groupset for some time and now decided to do something about it i've narrowed it down to SRAM however I'm not sure wether to go for SRAM red or the brand new SRAM Force.

what do you guys think? is there any difference worth caring about or shall i just settle for the cheaper Force?

any thoughts would be helpful

Since you said 'any' thoughts.......get either 6700, 7900, Athena from Campagnolo or Chorus/Record, also from Campagnolo.

 

[pat5319]

I used Campy Record, Super and "C" for over 35 years including the newer stuff that shifts from the brakes. My wife bought me a custom frame a while back and during the process of ordering I rode a "test" frame to get a better idea what "angles" and tubing to use to getthe "ride" I wated. The test bike had Rival on it and worked well enough to put it on my new frame, I did get a Campy crankset as the Rival gruppo's crank was too long and a little flexy. From what I understand, there's not much in performance/feel the average rider would notice between Red and Force. Teh red cogsets are close to twice the expense and can only bed had with an "11" top/outside cog vs 11 or 12 with force or rival. Very few people really need an 11 and with it you give up a "middle" gear you' use more. I may gradually upgrade to "Red" for the "wow" factor, I don't race anymore so weight is not an issue

 

[yum]

I used Campy Record, Super and "C" for over 35 years including the newer stuff that shifts from the brakes. My wife bought me a custom frame a while back and during the process of ordering I rode a "test" frame to get a better idea what "angles" and tubing to use to getthe "ride" I wated. The test bike had Rival on it and worked well enough to put it on my new frame, I did get a Campy crankset as the Rival gruppo's crank was too long and a little flexy. From what I understand, there's not much in performance/feel the average rider would notice between Red and Force. Teh red cogsets are close to twice the expense and can only bed had with an "11" top/outside cog vs 11 or 12 with force or rival. Very few people really need an 11 and with it you give up a "middle" gear you' use more. I may gradually upgrade to "Red" for the "wow" factor, I don't race anymore so weight is not an issue

Thanks, if you could have any groupset for racing at all what would it be? if price wasn't an option

 

[alfeng]

Thanks, if you could have any groupset for racing at all what would it be? if price wasn't an option

A blend of 10-speed Campagnolo components + a Shimano crankset ... why settle for less + who needs 11-speeds AND why limit yourself to the components from one groupset UNLESS you are a sponsored rider OR you still wear leisure suits?

BTW. Although Campagnolo + some others claim the 11-speed chain is as durable as OTHER chains, I have read an account of the chains failing on several drivetrains after about 1500 miles. Supposedly, those were 1500 DRY miles. It's just one account.

 

[Peter@vecchios]

A blend of 10-speed Campagnolo components + a Shimano crankset ... why settle for less + who needs 11-speeds AND why limit yourself to the components from one groupset UNLESS you are a sponsored rider OR you still wear leisure suits?

BTW. Although Campagnolo + some others claim the 11-speed chain is as durable as OTHER chains, I have read an account of the chains failing on several drivetrains after about 1500 miles. Supposedly, those were 1500 DRY miles. It's just one account.

Anecdotal. I have installed many 11s chains and if they were a-failin', I'm sure I would have heard about it. Using a Rohloff chain tool, they seem to last like 10s Campagnolo chains do. My experience.

To answer the question-if I was racing...Veloce thruout. Crashing and killing components is expensive.

 

[alienator]

Where is the evidence that a Campy crank on a Campy drivetrain is settling for less?

I read an account, once, that Elvis and JFK meet with the Grays from Zeta Reticuli every year at Caeser's Palace.

 

[catlike]

Since you said 'any' thoughts.......get either 6700, 7900, Athena from Campagnolo or Chorus/Record, also from Campagnolo.

Whats up with Centaur? Looks no worse than Athena to my eye and cost less. Or 11s is now must fot Campa riders?

 

[alienator]

Whats up with Centaur? Looks no worse than Athena to my eye and cost less. Or 11s is now must fot Campa riders?

Athena is 11s, and Centaur is 10s. What someone wants is the must. Pretty simple, really.

 

[banmark123]

I used Campy Record, Super and "C" for over 35 years including the newer stuff that shifts from the brakes. My wife bought me a custom frame a while back and during the process of ordering I rode a "test" frame to get a better idea what "angles" and tubing to use to getthe "ride" I wated. The test bike had Rival on it and worked well enough to put it on my new frame, I did get a Campy crankset as the Rival gruppo's crank was too long and a little flexy. From what I understand, there's not much in performance/feel the average rider would notice between Red and Force. Teh red cogsets are close to twice the expense and can only bed had with an "11" top/outside cog vs 11 or 12 with force or rival. Very few people really need an 11 and with it you give up a "middle" gear you' use more. I may gradually upgrade to "Red" for the "wow" factor, I don't race anymore so weight is not an issue

[lang=cs]Yep, I used to, and still do think like that, although through experience I should know that you are or never will be happy with your weight or your body even when you reach your goal, you turn around and make another one, the promising yourself again that when you reach that one that everything will be fine.[/lang]

 

[catlike]

Athena is 11s, and Centaur is 10s. What someone wants is the must. Pretty simple, really.

But not everyone wants lates/gratest/most expensive. And with centaur you have a choice of cheaper replasement parts (chains/casettes). At least those Chorus casettes looks too expensive for me. I would't go for 11s now from that reason. Would wait till Campa put 11s to lower end groups- maybe then.

 

[alienator]

But not everyone wants lates/gratest/most expensive. And with centaur you have a choice of cheaper replasement parts (chains/casettes). At least those Chorus casettes looks too expensive for me. I would't go for 11s now from that reason. Would wait till Campa put 11s to lower end groups- maybe then.

Well, golly: I guess it's good that Campy has more than SR, Record, Chorus, and Athena in their product line, isn't it? I wasn't aware that people had to buy 11s Campy.

 

[catlike]

Well, golly: I guess it's good that Campy has more than SR, Record, Chorus, and Athena in their product line, isn't it?

Did i mentioned that it is not good? Whats your point? I just asked peter why not put on list Centaur next to Athena. I didn't even asked is athena 11s or centaur 10s. Simle isn't it?

 

[Peter@vecchios]

Whats up with Centaur? Looks no worse than Athena to my eye and cost less. Or 11s is now must fot Campa riders?

11s. Not the 'answer' from the mountain top but with things ike a 12-27(interior cog added) and 12-29, great gearing. You 'can' convert a 2009+ 10s lever to 11s BTW/ use all else 10s except cogset/chain.

 

[Peter@vecchios]

But not everyone wants lates/gratest/most expensive. And with centaur you have a choice of cheaper replasement parts (chains/casettes). At least those Chorus casettes looks too expensive for me. I would't go for 11s now from that reason. Would wait till Campa put 11s to lower end groups- maybe then.

2011..I'm betting all will be 11s, along with FSA and 12s(WHAT? YGBSM!).

 

[catlike]

11s. Not the 'answer' from the mountain top but with things ike a 12-27(interior cog added) and 12-29, great gearing. You 'can' convert a 2009+ 10s lever to 11s BTW/ use all else 10s except cogset/chain.

Good option for those who needs/wants wider gearing range. But i am " flatlander" so 12-23 (max12-25) is all i need.

 

[Peter@vecchios]

Good option for those who needs/wants wider gearing range. But i am " flatlander" so 12-23 (max12-25) is all i need.

12-25 on 11s is straight thru 19, add a 21, 23, 25. Get an 18t, very useful.

 

[alfeng]

Where is the evidence that a Campy crank on a Campy drivetrain is settling for less?

Okay, you're apparently too young to remember when "compact"/(also, "Alpine") gearing wasn't considered a viable option for those who aspired to being a so-called 'serious' rider because using a 110BCD-or-similarly-small spider resulted in 52t-or-larger chainrings which flexed too much in the minds of those who advocated "regular" ROAD cranks ...

I would suggest that ONE reason that "compact" gearing is viable, now, is because 8-/9-/10-speed (Shimano) chainrings are thicker than the old 5-/6-/7-speed chainrings of yore ... and, the thicker chainring has resulted in an acceptably stiffer chainring ...

Shimano's latest DA & Ultegra cranks with their supposedly stiffer spiders & chainrings AND derailleurs is further testament to Shimano's ongoing efforts to mitigate the inherent flaw (i.e., "dwell") in their STI shifter design.

Because Campagnolo shifters are so efficient, many people don't realize that the shifting on their Campagnolo drivetrains can be marginally better by choosing/using the 'technology' which Shimano has developed to compensate for the flaw in the mecahnical design of their STI shifters.

Of course, Campagnolo's unnecessary answer has been to narrow the gap between the chainrings (and now, cogs) AND to redesign the parallelograms on their derailleurs.

Least we forget, ramping-and-pinning helps Shimano shifters but (based on my observation) ramping-and-pinning is completely unnecessary with Campagnolo shifters ... and, as I observed in the past, I realized that because I use Campagnolo shifters I could give a second life to some of my older, "thin" chainrings on my Shimano/etc. cranksets.

The long-and-the-short of it is that Shimano cranks-and-derailleurs are marginally stiffer than Campagnolo's AND Shimano's DA & Ultegra chainrings have more efficient ramping and/or pinning which will further expedite the already superior shifting of Campagnolo's shifters ... that may matter to some people [e.g., non-sponsored racers & wannabe racers], and not matter so much to others ...

Personally (again, because I use Campagnolo shifters), I'm content with using EITHER Campagnolo OR Shimano/[almost any] cranks + an outer chainring from almost ANY era.

TODAY'S ASSIGNMENT. We already know that the lack of trim is a design flaw in SRAM's left shifter ... someone who use SRAM shifters needs to mount an older, non-ramped/non-pinned outer chainring on their crank & report back on how well it shifts ... or, doesn't!?!

 

[alienator]

Sorry, reciting your opinion doesn't make a lesson. Those reading carefully will know that I didn't even mention compact cranks, so that misdirection doesn't work. If it helps, a lot of your assumptions are wrong, too.

 

[Peter@vecchios]

Okay, you're apparently too young to remember when "compact"/(also, "Alpine") gearing wasn't considered a viable option for those who aspired to being a so-called 'serious' rider because using a 110BCD-or-similarly-small spider resulted in 52t-or-larger chainrings which flexed too much in the minds of those who advocated "regular" ROAD cranks ...

I would suggest that ONE reason that "compact" gearing is viable, now, is because 8-/9-/10-speed (Shimano) chainrings are thicker than the old 5-/6-/7-speed chainrings of yore ... and, the thicker chainring has resulted in an acceptably stiffer chainring ...

Shimano's latest DA & Ultegra cranks with their supposedly stiffer spiders & chainrings AND derailleurs is further testament to Shimano's ongoing efforts to mitigate the inherent flaw (i.e., "dwell") in their STI shifter design.

Because Campagnolo shifters are so efficient, many people don't realize that the shifting on their Campagnolo drivetrains can be marginally better by choosing/using the 'technology' which Shimano has developed to compensate for the flaw in the mecahnical design of their STI shifters.

Of course, Campagnolo's unnecessary answer has been to narrow the gap between the chainrings (and now, cogs) AND to redesign the parallelograms on their derailleurs.

Least we forget, ramping-and-pinning helps Shimano shifters but (based on my observation) ramping-and-pinning is completely unnecessary with Campagnolo shifters ... and, as I observed in the past, I realized that because I use Campagnolo shifters I could give a second life to some of my older, "thin" chainrings on my Shimano/etc. cranksets.

The long-and-the-short of it is that Shimano cranks-and-derailleurs are marginally stiffer than Campagnolo's AND Shimano's DA & Ultegra chainrings have more efficient ramping and/or pinning which will further expedite the already superior shifting of Campagnolo's shifters ... that may matter to some people [e.g., non-sponsored racers & wannabe racers], and not matter so much to others ...

Personally (again, because I use Campagnolo shifters), I'm content with using EITHER Campagnolo OR Shimano/[almost any] cranks + an outer chainring from almost ANY era.

TODAY'S ASSIGNMENT. We already know that the lack of trim is a design flaw in SRAM's left shifter ... someone who use SRAM shifters needs to mount an older, non-ramped/non-pinned outer chainring on their crank & report back on how well it shifts ... or, doesn't!?!

ooohhh pick me, pick me!!

All sram LH shifters now HAVE trim, have for almost 18 months. 7900 has none.