Sssssnakes



Status
Not open for further replies.
[email protected] (mark freedman) wrote:
>Raptor <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>..
>
>
>> stop well short (10 feet) of a rattlesnake parked in the middle of the road. I waited it out,
>> stomped my foot a few times and it mosied off the road. I let it live.
>>
>
>
> Proper technique is to stare directly into it's eyes while saying in your best stern
> father voice
>
> "BAD rattlesnake. BAD rattlesnake. Go home ......"

Actually, snakes are deaf (no external ears) and respond only to ground vibrations - so the stomping
thing should work.

p.s. Yes, I know that your post is a parody of the standard anti-dog dictum.
 
"Garrison Hilliard" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> [email protected] (mark freedman) wrote:
>> >
> > Proper technique is to stare directly into it's eyes while saying in your best stern father
> > voice
> >
> > "BAD rattlesnake. BAD rattlesnake. Go home ......"
>
> Actually, snakes are deaf (no external ears) and respond only to ground vibrations - so the
> stomping thing should work.
>
> p.s. Yes, I know that your post is a parody of the standard anti-dog dictum.

Thank you. I was hoping somebody would say that :)

from http://www.anapsid.org/torrey.html

Melissa Kaplan's Herp Care Collection Last updated August 11, 2002

Shhh! The snake may hear you

©1998 John Carson. Torrey Pines State Park

Can snakes hear, you ask?

A few decades ago the answer was no, for - obviously - snakes don't have external ears. And any way,
snakes don't appear to respond to loud noises. Further support for this view is found in some
current zoology texts, which still report that snakes lack the sense of hearing. But research begun
about 35 years ago, especially the extensive investigations over many years by E.G. Wever and
associates at Princeton University, has shown that snakes have a hearing capability(at least in an
electrophysiological sense) comparable to that of lizards.

This should not be too surprising, for snakes and lizards share some common features and are thought
to have common ancestors.

So how can a snake hear, lacking external ears? By having equivalent structures on each side of its
head. The skin and muscle tissue on each side of the head cover a loosely suspended bone, called the
quadrate, which undergoes small displacements in response to airborne sound. The quadrate motion is
transferred by intermediate structures to the cochlea, which produces electrical signals on its hair
cells that correlate with the airborne sounds (within a range of intensity and frequency determined
by the ear system) and are transferred to the brain.

Cochlear signals are present in functioning ears of all classes of vertebrates from fish to mammals,
while animals that are congenitally deaf produce no such signals, so their presence in response to
sound is taken as an indication of the hearing sense. Wever and co-workers
[1] developed techniques to measure the hair-cell signals in lizards, snakes, and amphibians, which
involved anesthetizing the specimen, inserting a very thin wire probe into contact with a hair
cell, and measuring the acoustic signal level needed to produce a specified hair-cell signal
(typically 0.1 microvolt). Various experiments were performed to demonstrate that the hair-cell
signals were in direct response to airborne sound and not to mechanical vibrations from the
medium on which the specimens were placed.

According to Porter [2], the auditory response of snakes in the range of 200 to 300 Hz is superior
to that of cats. Hartline and Campbell
[2] investigated the transmission of airborne sound through the snake's skin and lung into the inner
ear. Wever's results show that this type of transmission, called the somatic mode, is much
reduced compared to that through the skin to the quadrate, which is the main mode of hearing.

How are the cochlear responses to be interpreted? Wever points out that it is often difficult to
determine the role of hearing in lower forms such as reptiles. It is possible that snakes make less
use of the auditory sense than other animals. He notes that the maximum sensitivity occurs in the
frequency range of noise made by movements of large animals, so detection of such sounds could
function as a warning to snakes to be motionless, a common defensive action with animals. (Although
not discussed in the references I was able to check, there is also the question of how the cochlear
signals are used in the snake brain. Is it possible that the ability to process this information has
been or is being lost?) So the next time you meet a snake on the Reserve trails, be careful what you
say to it, for the snake may hear you.

Acknowledgements - My thanks to R. Haase, research associate with the UCSD Biology Dept., for
informative discussions and reviewing this article.

References

[3] Wever, E.G., The Reptile Ear, Princeton University Press, 1978

[4] Porter, K.R., Herpetology, Sanders Co., 1972

[5] Hartline, P.H., and Campbell, H.W., "Auditory and Vibratory Responses in the Midbrains of
Snakes, " Science, vol 163, 1221, (1969)
 
Raptor wrote:

> Rick Warner wrote:
> > Raptor <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > Jobst is dead-on; ride around it! You say it is a 2.5 ft snake on a 15' road; even if it is just
> > to one side of center and stretched out straight to the side of the road you would have 5' of
> > clearance on that side, and
> > 7.5' on the other. Lots of room to pass. Rattlesnakes are not that fast, they cannot 'jump', and
> > the subspecies that lives in the SLC area is rather passive - not very aggressive (when
> > working on some biological studies just west of SLC we used to almost step on them daily, and
> > all we did was call out position so that on one did step on the snakes). Live and let live;
> > the snakes are good for the area and deserve to live.
> >
> > - rick warner
>
> It's nice to hear that our rattlers are passive, but for a (snake)-ophobe, it doesn't help much.
> Plus, we do hear that every summer results in a big spike in snake bite treatments at hospitals
> (duh), so people do get bitten.
>
> I'd be happier to learn that their venom is not particularly destructive. Do you know?
>
> Perhaps your info explains my having ridden unscathed by a largish snake, passing within a foot of
> it on an uphill trail in the same area, a couple years ago. It was a quick enough passing that I
> didn't get a good look at the snake, just something big squirming right beneath my feet. I don't
> even know if it was a rattler. My only injury was a substantial rise in the pucker factor.
>
> -

You've got to get over it. You freak because you saw a snake. Many other people wish they could
share your experience. Meanwhile, what are the real stats regarding rattlesnake bites? Get over
yourself. It's just like all those girls I know who panic because there is a spider in the
bathroom. Of course there is. What's keeping the silverfish under control? These critters are no
big deal. Just understand them a little, and realize how valuable they are to you and to all of us.
regards, Bernie
 
Raptor wrote:

> Rick Warner wrote:
> > Raptor <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > Jobst is dead-on; ride around it! You say it is a 2.5 ft snake on a 15' road; even if it is just
> > to one side of center and stretched out straight to the side of the road you would have 5' of
> > clearance on that side, and
> > 7.5' on the other. Lots of room to pass. Rattlesnakes are not that fast, they cannot 'jump', and
> > the subspecies that lives in the SLC area is rather passive - not very aggressive (when
> > working on some biological studies just west of SLC we used to almost step on them daily, and
> > all we did was call out position so that on one did step on the snakes). Live and let live;
> > the snakes are good for the area and deserve to live.
> >
> > - rick warner
>
> It's nice to hear that our rattlers are passive, but for a (snake)-ophobe, it doesn't help much.
> Plus, we do hear that every summer results in a big spike in snake bite treatments at hospitals
> (duh), so people do get bitten.
>
> I'd be happier to learn that their venom is not particularly destructive. Do you know?
>
> Perhaps your info explains my having ridden unscathed by a largish snake, passing within a foot of
> it on an uphill trail in the same area, a couple years ago. It was a quick enough passing that I
> didn't get a good look at the snake, just something big squirming right beneath my feet. I don't
> even know if it was a rattler. My only injury was a substantial rise in the pucker factor.
>
> --
> --
> Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
> could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP
> in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Putting rattlesnake bites in perspective:

How does 1 bite every 3.5 years compare with other animal related deaths and injuries? In Wisconsin,
the number of people that die from deer/car collisions ranges from 0-7 per year for the same period,
1982-96, or 2.2 deaths per year. Only one death has ever been attributed to a Timber Rattlesnake
bite in the state's history. The number of deer/car injuries recorded from 1982-95 ranged from 324
in 1982 to 693 in 1996. The number of cat and dog bites reported annually in La Crosse County alone
from 1984-1995 ranged from 145-252 per year. Comparing these figures to 1 rattlesnake bite every 3.5
years demonstrates the comparatively negligible threat Timber Rattlesnakes truly pose to humans.

How does that grab you? You're paranoid. Get over it. Life is good. Snakes are important. ie: we
need them. Bernie
 
Raptor wrote:

> Rick Warner wrote:
> > It is moderate toxicity. There used to be a good venom research unit at the VA Hospital in SLC,
> > so there was a lot of knowledge in the area of the venom and how to deal with it. The best
> > course is to stay away from the snakes, and know how to deal with a bite if it happens.
>
> Thanks for the info. There's a similar thread in a.m-b (that I forgot about earlier), but what is
> your advice on what to do if bitten on a trail or remote road? Call 911 on your cell phone (which
> I have for the first time this season) and do what they say? Ride downhill or easily to the
> nearest EMS access point? Sit and glare at the snake? Try to kill it for EMS ID?
>
> One handy tip from the other thread is to mark the bite location with a pen, or I guess dirt if
> you don't have a pen.
>
> --
> --
> Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
> could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP
> in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Oh come on. If you are really concerned about what to do if bitten, you don't have to ask a bunch of
bicyclists about it. You can get on the internet and get the real goods. Bernie
 
Matt O'Toole wrote:

> "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> > I happened to catch a show on Animal Planet just a couple
> days ago,
> > before my encounter. The Mojave Green was called the most
> deadly snake
> > in the country. Aggression and deadly venom in one little
> package. As
> > clear a case for killing every one you see as we'll ever
> get.
>
> Leave them alone and they'll leave you alone. They keep the rats under control, and those carry
> rabies, hantavirus, and bubonic plague.
>
> Matt O.

Very good point. Do you know any other common animal that will eat plague rats/squirrels? Snakes
have a job to do. They are just part of the circle of life. Bernie
 
On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:12:14 -0700, Bernie <[email protected]> from Posted via Supernews,
http://www.supernews.com wrote:

>Very good point. Do you know any other common animal that will eat plague rats/squirrels? Snakes
>have a job to do. They are just part of the circle of life.

You're the Karate Monkey in the Lion King and I claim my ten quid!

--
http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace I'm sitting on my SPEED QUEEN ... To me, it's
ENJOYABLE ... I'm WARM ... I'm VIBRATORY ...
1:56:14 AM 23 June 2003
 
Bernie wrote:
>
> You've got to get over it. You freak because you saw a snake. Many other people wish they could
> share your experience. Meanwhile, what are the real stats regarding rattlesnake bites? Get over
> yourself. It's just like all those girls I know who panic because there is a spider in the
> bathroom. Of course there is. What's keeping the silverfish under control? These critters are no
> big deal. Just understand them a little, and realize how valuable they are to you and to all of
> us. regards, Bernie

It's really just the startle factor anymore. I know a rattlesnake can't hurt me if I'm at least five
feet from it.

I was hiking the Tetons yesterday and jumped whenever a rodent jumped toward my path before turning
away. I don't want ANYTHING crossing my path within a couple feet, at any speed, small or large.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
 
In addition, alcohol is involved with a majority of snake bites, somewhere around 80%. People that
get bitten are not people who are riding their bikes. This are drunk people that are playing with
their pet snakes or who are actively pursuing snakes in the wild.

--
Mike Murray MD "Bernie" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Putting rattlesnake bites in perspective:
>
> How does 1 bite every 3.5 years compare with other animal related deaths
and
> injuries? In Wisconsin, the number of people that die from deer/car collisions ranges from 0-7 per
> year for the
same
> period, 1982-96, or 2.2 deaths per year. Only one death has ever been attributed to a Timber
> Rattlesnake bite
in the
> state's history. The number of deer/car injuries recorded from 1982-95 ranged from 324 in 1982
> to 693 in
1996.
> The number of cat and dog bites reported annually in La Crosse County alone from 1984-1995
> ranged from
145-252
> per year. Comparing these figures to 1 rattlesnake bite every 3.5 years demonstrates the
comparatively
> negligible threat Timber Rattlesnakes truly pose to humans.
>
> How does that grab you? You're paranoid. Get over it. Life is good.
Snakes
> are important. ie: we need them. Bernie
 
Kevan Smith wrote:

> On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 23:12:14 -0700, Bernie <[email protected]> from Posted via Supernews,
> http://www.supernews.com wrote:
>
> >Very good point. Do you know any other common animal that will eat plague rats/squirrels? Snakes
> >have a job to do. They are just part of the circle of life.
>
> You're the Karate Monkey in the Lion King and I claim my ten quid!
>
> --
> http://home.sport.rr.com/cuthulu/ human rights = peace I'm sitting on my SPEED QUEEN ... To me,
> it's ENJOYABLE ... I'm WARM ... I'm VIBRATORY ...
> 1:56:14 AM 23 June 2003

You almost make me wish I'd seen it. Sorry for the late reply. Don't read this group often. Bernie
 
Status
Not open for further replies.