Stage 15 TDF :Lézat-sur-Lèze - Saint-Lary Soulan (Pla d'Adet) : Spoiler

[limerickman]

I would agree that I have always seen him as a stand up rider and a modest guy and to be honest I only saw what OLN aired.
So I can't be sure of what happened. Damn goods stage though. Two stages for the price of one.

I agree JH : I thought that todays stage had everything from a domestique having some glory (GH) to a guy like Alan Davis (Liberty) doing a great ride.

LA and Basso were neck and neck. Great footage. I think Basso made LA work hard today.
LA was impressive though.

Vino was up and down a lot - where he gets the energy I don't know.
He's dead one moment and then he's flying the next.
Leipheimer was impressive today and rasmussen and Mancebo did very well to limit losses to the guys higher up on GC.

Eurosport interviewed a lot of the riders in the immediate finish of the stage.
There were a lot of tired, tired bodies out there.
Some of them looked like death warmed up.
Great stage - great drama.

 

[Le_cannibale]

Near the end of the climb while Hincapie was sitting on Oscar's wheel, it may have been a good strategy for him because he knows that all of the Spaniards and Basques would not do anything stupid if a Spanish rider was in the front. He probably wouldn't have been attacked by the fans, but it was possible. Oscar was also the man attacking, from George's perspective, Lance. So he may have been told to sit back so that the gap wasn't so large. It wouldn't have done anything to approach Lance's lead really, but Oscar was the attacker on the final climb. He attacked a lot but couldn't drop George. George wouldn't normally sit on someone's wheel, I don't think. Most riders would not sit on the wheel by choice, Horner maybe. For the Tour, Oscar deserved the win, but for the 7 Tours George has worked for someone else he deserved it. Oscar will get his day.

 

[jhuskey]

I agree JH : I thought that todays stage had everything from a domestique having some glory (GH) to a guy like Alan Davis (Liberty) doing a great ride.

LA and Basso were neck and neck. Great footage. I think Basso made LA work hard today.
LA was impressive though.

Vino was up and down a lot - where he gets the energy I don't know.
He's dead one moment and then he's flying the next.
Leipheimer was impressive today and rasmussen and Mancebo did very well to limit losses to the guys higher up on GC.

Eurosport interviewed a lot of the riders in the immediate finish of the stage.
There were a lot of tired, tired bodies out there.
Some of them looked like death warmed up.
Great stage - great drama.

Vino is some kind of mutant. As I have posted before he recovers quickly and always has something up his sleeve.
My wife doesn't care for him ,but he has a certain style that is an aquired taste I guess.
Can't help but feel for Jan. For whatever reason you want to accept,he will never beat Lance it seems.
If he wins 6 tours,not likely, and I am just making a bench mark, it would always be an empty victory.
He,Basso and Rasmussen are an enigma to what might have been. Basso without the Giro,Rasmussen starting earlier as a roadie and Jan with whatever element is missing,you fill in the blank there.
I am considering writing some verse in reference to the tour this year,so be kind if I do and post it.
Allez,Allez to all

 

[Crankster]

As I say I'm not going to rain on GH's parade...

No, of course not.

But the fact that you mention it only like a 1,000 times today makes me think that it's exactly what you are trying to do.

I just love sentences that start with: "Not to diminish *'s performance today, but..."

This is hillarious as it's quite clear that the second part of this sentence is designed specifically to diminish someone's performance today.

 

[musette]

Crankster -- I second your comments.

 

[azdroptop]

GH had no reason to work today? He went along for the ride and took the win.

 

[wilmar13]

GH had no reason to work today? He went along for the ride and took the win.

Yeah I don't understand the debate... it is called racing. I can't even count the number of times I have gone off the front only to have some wheel sucker come around me at the finish, and you know what everyone calls that guy?... the winner.

 

[wolfix]

Yeah I don't understand the debate... it is called racing. I can't even count the number of times I have gone off the front only to have some wheel sucker come around me at the finish, and you know what everyone calls that guy?... the winner.

I am a sprinter .... I am that guy that came around you after I sucked your wheel. But I am also that guy you didn't wait for when there was major hills. Yes, it is called racing .

 

[996vtwin]

Yeah I don't understand the debate... it is called racing. I can't even count the number of times I have gone off the front only to have some wheel sucker come around me at the finish, and you know what everyone calls that guy?... the winner.

You must be some fat cat5 bum cause in serious races that kind of **** gets you nowhere. Like someone said earlier cyclists dont forget.

 

[bobke]

I take that.

Well some posters here think that GH didn't do enough on the front.

Objectively I would have to say that I thought that he could have done more at the front.

But I am not going to rain on GH's parade either : maybe he was told not to do his pull by DC management (I don't know).

I do find it galling though that one poster here (musette) did try to create the impression that OP and GH worked together on the climb.
They didn't.

They did. After they dropped Cauchiolli they went next to each other, looked back, talked a second, then put their heads down and went. If George wasnt working they may have gotten caught.

Its obvious George had no reason to work at any point in the break before and didnt. Shouldnt have done so in fact and Im sure was told not to by Disco and even if he wasnt, why should he work? He was covering any eventual return fromLance and saving it in case he needed to work for Lance at the end.

Perfect tactics and strategy from George and Disco.

 

[thebluetrain]

They did. After they dropped Cauchiolli they went next to each other, looked back, talked a second, then put their heads down and went. If George wasnt working they may have gotten caught.

Its obvious George had no reason to work at any point in the break before and didnt. Shouldnt have done so in fact and Im sure was told not to by Disco and even if he wasnt, why should he work? He was covering any eventual return fromLance and saving it in case he needed to work for Lance at the end.

Perfect tactics and strategy from George and Disco.

I agree totally. I just watched the replay. From 8-6 Km to go Pereiro and Boogerd rode side by side with GH riding center wheel behind them. With 6Km to go Cauchiolli returned to the group. With 4.5 Km to go Cauchiolli attacked. Pereiro bridged the gap. Then GH bridged the gap. Then Pereiro attacked and GH bridged the gap. From about 3-1km to go the road was so thin with fans that there wasnt much of an oppurtunity for GH to get by even if he had wanted to. Inside 1Km Pereiro again attacked with GH staying on his wheel. And the rest is TdF history.

 

[jitmo]

I'd much rather suck a wheel than an egg. It's a bike race for cryin' out loud. You do what has to be done in good fairness. I think GH has "pulled" his share and "done" his work for 7 years enough that none (notice NONE) of us or any rider in todays racecan say he didn't work enough to deserve a win.

Crankster -- I second your comments.

 

[Catabolic_Jones]

That's not cricket, chaps!

You're damned straight it's not.

Bottom line, if Pereiro were stronger, he would have won.

He did what he could to ride off George's wheel, but he couldn't. He tried. He can hide behind 'style points' all he likes, as can his DS. Only cowards hide behind 'style' or other subjective criteria when they lose. As a Canadian hockey fan, I hear this all the time from the Swedes, Finns, Czechs, Russians, etc. You know what? You lost.

The only one diminished today was team Phonak by their chicken-**** response.

 

[limerickman]

They did. After they dropped Cauchiolli they went next to each other, looked back, talked a second, then put their heads down and went. If George wasnt working they may have gotten caught.

Caucchiolli was passed approaching the last climb of the day.
GH didn't work with Pereiro prior to that.

 

[tcklyde]

As far as I could tell, GH mostly didn't work. OP did a lot of pulling at the end. And I think it would have been crazy for GH to work in that break. Did he suck some wheel? Yes. Should he have done anything but suck wheel? No. That's the tactics of a break on a stage like this.

GH shows what happens when it goes one way: your boss doesn't need the help so you go for the win. And Sevilla shows what happens when it goes the other: your boss needs help so you go back and pace him -- fresh because you didn't waste energy working for a break that doesn't help the boss.

Personally, I would have liked to see GH pull a little more in the last kms, but once they were inside one thousand meters, I can understand why he wouldn't want to come around. At that point it was his anyway.

 

[996vtwin]

As far as I could tell, GH mostly didn't work. OP did a lot of pulling at the end. And I think it would have been crazy for GH to work in that break. Did he suck some wheel? Yes. Should he have done anything but suck wheel? No. That's the tactics of a break on a stage like this.

GH shows what happens when it goes one way: your boss doesn't need the help so you go for the win. And Sevilla shows what happens when it goes the other: your boss needs help so you go back and pace him -- fresh because you didn't waste energy working for a break that doesn't help the boss.

Personally, I would have liked to see GH pull a little more in the last kms, but once they were inside one thousand meters, I can understand why he wouldn't want to come around. At that point it was his anyway.

Please Please! Lets call a pear a pear and a louse a louse. Please! Periero deserved that win not some domestique that sucks wheel for a whole break than raises his hands in victory. Please I only expect this from yankees that have no culture and honour. Macdonalds and fried and wheel sucking is what you yanks are good for.

 

[wolfix]

Please Please! Lets call a pear a pear and a louse a louse. Please! Periero deserved that win not some domestique that sucks wheel for a whole break than raises his hands in victory. Please I only expect this from yankees that have no culture and honour. Macdonalds and fried and wheel sucking is what you yanks are good for.

May I ask what your nationality is ???

 

[tcklyde]

Please Please! Lets call a pear a pear and a louse a louse. Please! Periero deserved that win not some domestique that sucks wheel for a whole break than raises his hands in victory. Please I only expect this from yankees that have no culture and honour. Macdonalds and fried and wheel sucking is what you yanks are good for.

Give me a break. I love cycling and I have no interest in being a USA booster. Read my posts; that's not my agenda. I'm speaking, I hope, from a purely tactical standpoint.

GH's behavior in the break was text book. Do you follow cycling? Putting a rider in a break to hedge the bets is completely normal. Sprinters teams do it, and yes, GC teams and Discovery can do it. How much did Sevilla pull?

As far as I can guess, OP worked hard b/c he thought he had a chance at the stage and that Landis wasn't a chance to win. He had incentive to work. GH's incentive was to take care of LA. Team orders probably, and smart racing definitely.

If GH had been pushing the break we'd be having a big debate about how idiotic Discovery was for having GH work.

Of course, OP is a big league class rider with awesome results. My kudos to him. He worked hard today and a win woud have been well deserved. But Jens Voigt is class, too. And Vino sucked a lot of wheel at L-B-L and no one seems to be complaining. It's bike racing. It takes strength and smarts.

 

[wilmar13]

You must be some fat cat5 bum cause in serious races that kind of **** gets you nowhere. Like someone said earlier cyclists dont forget.

No actually I am a 29 year old barely competitive terminal cat 3 and yet while I am a clearly a nobody in bicycle racing, personal insults will not change the validity of what I wrote. You play the cards you have, GH did (after he was freed to be selfish), and he won. I guess GH should have given the stage to OP since OP tried unsuccessfully to drop him as that was his only chance, and since he tried GH should have given him the stage for effort .

You may not like it (just as I don't like it when wheel sucking bastards like Wolfix comes around me for the win), but that is the way it works. I fail to understand how much energy you think GH saved "drafting" OP up a mountain , but even so lets just say that GH won ONLY because he drafted OP the last 5KM... whose fault is it that OP lost? GH won because he was the smarter cyclist or OP lost because he couldn't change the situation, and under either perspective GH deserved the win with no room for debate. As far as other cyclists not forgetting, he played that card, now he will have difficulty playing it again, thanks for pointing that out Captain Obvious.

 

[wilmar13]

Please Please! Lets call a pear a pear and a louse a louse. Please! Periero deserved that win not some domestique that sucks wheel for a whole break than raises his hands in victory. Please I only expect this from yankees that have no culture and honour. Macdonalds and fried and wheel sucking is what you yanks are good for.

As for your anti-american rants, I am surprised you don't root for Chris Horner... You share a mentality of blaming others and external circumstances for shortcomings.