I one thought I was the reincarnation of a Leopard.......but that was back in college, and there was a fungus involved.Eagle of Toledo said:
Stage 16 TDF - Wednesday, July 25: Orthez - Gourette - Col d’Aubisque, 218.5km
- Thread starter limerickman
- Start date
limerickman said:
I want to see Contador continue to attack Rasmussen until Rasmussen is busted. I want to see Evans find some legs (without the support of drugs) and go on the attack (a little less possible).
There has been some fantastic racing in the mountains, best for years, pity this is the last mountain stage.
Bro Deal said:If Leipheimer and Evans were racing each other, who would wheelsuck who? Would they just stand at the start line, waiting for the other to go first?
Much as I hate to admit it neither seems to have the killer instinct or that extra bit of testicle needed to inflict pain on the other cyclists while suffering themselves. Maybe they need drugs to do that.
I agree that neither Cadel or Levi have the killer instinct or the ability to launch big attacks. That is why they wont win the Tour, this year or probably any other.
But, I think if we are going to metion those guys, there are plenty of other so-called "wheelsuckers".
The guys doing the real work have been guys like Boogerd and Popo, whilst the entire top 10 "wheelsucked" behind them.
Ras, apart from one breakaway and trying to chase Contador has "wheelsucked". Soler, apart from one breakaway has "wheelsucked". At the times of their breakways, no one thought Ras or Soler were GC threats, so did not chase them, hence they could get away with it. Anyone else (inc Levi and Cadel) would not be allowed to get away as they are seen as contenders, so apart from launching late and devastating attacks, they are limited in what they can do.
Sastre, Kloden, Valverde, Vino (before he lost time) and Menchov have not been sighted on the front of the group any more or any less than Cadel and Levi. At various times, Cadel has led the group - over the Peyresourde, up the last hill on the stage that Soler won etc.
If all the wheelsucking brigade are hanging their hats on is the stage when Moreau attacked, then again why would any of the other riders help a guy who attacked them six times in the first 3km of the climb?
The only true "non-wheelsucker" (according to the definition being used loosely in this forum) in the group is Contador as he has been the only real attacking rider when he has had other GC contenders around him. But when he is not attacking, I have bad news for you folks - he is wheelsucking too!
But, I think if we are going to metion those guys, there are plenty of other so-called "wheelsuckers".
The guys doing the real work have been guys like Boogerd and Popo, whilst the entire top 10 "wheelsucked" behind them.
Ras, apart from one breakaway and trying to chase Contador has "wheelsucked". Soler, apart from one breakaway has "wheelsucked". At the times of their breakways, no one thought Ras or Soler were GC threats, so did not chase them, hence they could get away with it. Anyone else (inc Levi and Cadel) would not be allowed to get away as they are seen as contenders, so apart from launching late and devastating attacks, they are limited in what they can do.
Sastre, Kloden, Valverde, Vino (before he lost time) and Menchov have not been sighted on the front of the group any more or any less than Cadel and Levi. At various times, Cadel has led the group - over the Peyresourde, up the last hill on the stage that Soler won etc.
If all the wheelsucking brigade are hanging their hats on is the stage when Moreau attacked, then again why would any of the other riders help a guy who attacked them six times in the first 3km of the climb?
The only true "non-wheelsucker" (according to the definition being used loosely in this forum) in the group is Contador as he has been the only real attacking rider when he has had other GC contenders around him. But when he is not attacking, I have bad news for you folks - he is wheelsucking too!
I'm an Aussie. I'm rooting for Cadel. Yes, he does like to suck on Michelins, but what else can he do? He is not a pure climber and will never be able to attak the likes of Contador and Ras on a climb. He doesn't have the support of a strong team like Disco or Rabo so what is left for hime to do other than limit his lossen in the mountains by hanging onto wheels?
Cont and Ras (Ras in particular) received a massive advantage this year when the TT came after the alps. Had it been the other way around, the GC boys would not have let Ras get so far ahead. They were counting on gaining 3-6 mins on him in the TT, but only gained 1-2.
Tonight will be really interesting. Hoping Disco can control it early so Cont, Liepheimer (who else...) can get away early and put some time into the Chook in Black!
Cont and Ras (Ras in particular) received a massive advantage this year when the TT came after the alps. Had it been the other way around, the GC boys would not have let Ras get so far ahead. They were counting on gaining 3-6 mins on him in the TT, but only gained 1-2.
Tonight will be really interesting. Hoping Disco can control it early so Cont, Liepheimer (who else...) can get away early and put some time into the Chook in Black!
How can the guy who ligitimately won the first ITT be called a wheelsucker? Who is the only guy who has tried to cover the attacks of the two pure mountain men? How come I do not see the **** dishers on this forum riding on the mountains in this years tour?Doctor.House said:
Andrew - nicely put. There are many forum members who seem to believe that to win a race or Tour you have to prove your credentials by leading from the front and/or attacking. Nonsense. Most attacks are meaningless and are done for the 5 mins of free TV publicity the team sponsors get. Most attackers are sucked up and blown out the back of the peloton - anyone remember Bradley Wiggin´s noble effort? Did anyone benefit from that other than his sponsor?
Many TdF winners rode conservatively and won by having the ability to time trial fast and be good at damage limitation in the mountains. Now that Vino has been removed from the equation, doesn´t that mirror Cadel Evans' race so far? He won the ITT and should beat Contador and Ras in the next one too.
No question, he is not the complete cyclist but not being able to match the pure climbing speed of Ras or Contador does not make him a wheelsucker. If the best you can do in those situations is hang on then that´s what you do - that´s good tactics. Launching a suicide attack is naive in the extreme when you know you can´t win.
The other point to consider is of course who, or what, he is up against. If, as suspected, Ras and Contador are running on chemically enhanced fuel while he is running on normal unleaded then that is probably the main reason he has to sit behind them. EPO, for example, is reputed to give the individual rider anywhere between a 7-12 % improvement. It allows the rider to ride harder and faster without feeling the distress that he normally would and also allows him to recover faster. Evans is like a great road-production car - fast and reliable. But put him in a race against souped-up, customised, nitrogen fuel powered dragsters and, well, the result is a formality.
Many TdF winners rode conservatively and won by having the ability to time trial fast and be good at damage limitation in the mountains. Now that Vino has been removed from the equation, doesn´t that mirror Cadel Evans' race so far? He won the ITT and should beat Contador and Ras in the next one too.
No question, he is not the complete cyclist but not being able to match the pure climbing speed of Ras or Contador does not make him a wheelsucker. If the best you can do in those situations is hang on then that´s what you do - that´s good tactics. Launching a suicide attack is naive in the extreme when you know you can´t win.
The other point to consider is of course who, or what, he is up against. If, as suspected, Ras and Contador are running on chemically enhanced fuel while he is running on normal unleaded then that is probably the main reason he has to sit behind them. EPO, for example, is reputed to give the individual rider anywhere between a 7-12 % improvement. It allows the rider to ride harder and faster without feeling the distress that he normally would and also allows him to recover faster. Evans is like a great road-production car - fast and reliable. But put him in a race against souped-up, customised, nitrogen fuel powered dragsters and, well, the result is a formality.
Andrew76 said:
hgb said:
The French and German teams stayed at the start for a minute or so to protest at doping in the sport. Others such as Discovery Channel, Euskaltel, Lampre, Caisse d'Epargne and Preditor Lotto didn't feel the same way and left. Michael Rasmussen also left with these.
Strangely, T-Mobile and CSC also moved off, even though they have strong anti-doping programmes.
There was some booing from the crowd. We don't know if that was for those who left, or those who stayed.
By the way, we understand that it was the strike-breakers who were booed earlier, not the strikers. When they rolled off their gesture was applauded by the crowd.
whiteboytrash said:
In theory this is good. Change in cycling has to come from within and the people directly involved. How credible is this though? I'd love to believe in it. I'd love to think that the reason the French teams have struggled in recent years is because they are clean. Not because I particularly like the French teams, but because it makes sense of the craziness we've had to witness for the last 15 years. As others have pointed out, it's great to see riders looking absolutely fooked again after mountaintop finishes instead of the serene ascensions to the top that have become so common in recent years. Anyone know the average speed so far for this year's Tour? I think that simple statistic tells an awful lot. The year after Festina we had the fastest ever Tour......
Bro Deal said:
Some angry riding, good, good. One positive way to vent the discontent surrounding Ras.
Details of another doping case (testosterone) to be released at 3pm (CET).
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news5
Cycling News Flash for July 25, 2007
Edited by Laura Weislo
New positive test leaked
One day after Alexandre Vinoukourov was said to have tested positive for a blood transfusion, news of another positive doping control has hit the Tour de France. L'Equipe reported Wednesday afternoon that one sample from stage 11 has tested positive for testosterone. The analysis to determine if the testosterone was of exogenous origin has already been completed, and the IRMS confirmed that the chemical came not from the rider's body but from a man-made source. The name of the rider is to be released at 15.00 CET.
The testing was performed at the Châtenay-Malabry laboratory - the same lab responsible for performing tests on Floyd Landis' 2006 Tour sample that showed a similar result. This result is the second positive of the Tour, and the third testosterone positive announced this month after Patrik Sinkewitz (T-Mobile) and Matthias Kessler (Astana). Stage 11 was won by Barloworld's Robert Hunter while Rabobank's Michael Rasmussen wore the yellow jersey. Both riders and several random riders would have been controlled after the stage.
Stay tuned for more information as the story develops.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news5
Cycling News Flash for July 25, 2007
Edited by Laura Weislo
New positive test leaked
One day after Alexandre Vinoukourov was said to have tested positive for a blood transfusion, news of another positive doping control has hit the Tour de France. L'Equipe reported Wednesday afternoon that one sample from stage 11 has tested positive for testosterone. The analysis to determine if the testosterone was of exogenous origin has already been completed, and the IRMS confirmed that the chemical came not from the rider's body but from a man-made source. The name of the rider is to be released at 15.00 CET.
The testing was performed at the Châtenay-Malabry laboratory - the same lab responsible for performing tests on Floyd Landis' 2006 Tour sample that showed a similar result. This result is the second positive of the Tour, and the third testosterone positive announced this month after Patrik Sinkewitz (T-Mobile) and Matthias Kessler (Astana). Stage 11 was won by Barloworld's Robert Hunter while Rabobank's Michael Rasmussen wore the yellow jersey. Both riders and several random riders would have been controlled after the stage.
Stay tuned for more information as the story develops.
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